Crashing Multiplayer? - Info on Firewalls, Routers and Proxies

[Swissy]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Apparently, most of the port 80 requirement is for running GameSpy arcade. Someone mentioned to me that they were watching activity and the only time port 80 was used was when firing up GameSpy. I do know that Arcade causes ZoneAlarm to ask if GS can be a server. I hope I got that right.

Yes, you got that right. ZoneAlarm considers any app that listens on port 80 to be a server. If you don't click "Yes", ZA will block that app's access to port 80.

[kring]

Originally posted by Swissy


Yes, you got that right. ZoneAlarm considers any app that listens on port 80 to be a server. If you don't click "Yes", ZA will block that app's access to port 80.

Thank you for the tip; that explains why ZA sometimes asks me a Server question instead of an Internet question.

[art_vandelai]

Tried both disabling ZA and allowing it to act as server.

Game still broken. Oh well - going back to SP.

I can host a game on MP, it's just that no one can see it! When I launch the game, it works, but that's not really multi-player if no one can join you. *maybe* it's everyone else's PC's?

Warcraft 3 and Neverwinter Nights are a couple of examples of good multi-player - NWN allows 64 players at once on a high speed connection, WC3 has up to 8 playing real-time. Both perform flawlessly, with firewalls enabled. Firaxis can do this, they just need to get out in the field and use the stuff we use (try a few DSL and cable-modem connections and find out if certain ISP's are blocking transmissions)

If this keeps up, I fear for the MP community - all that will be there is a few hardcores. Let's hope a new patch arrives soon.

[isak]

Originally posted by art_vandelai
I can host a game on MP, it's just that no one can see it! When I launch the game, it works, but that's not really multi-player if no one can join you. *maybe* it's everyone else's PC's?

No, this is definitely your PC, and is a very good indication that you're either behind a NAT capable firewall or a software firewall which has not been opened correctly
Check Zonealarm's settings - double-click the icon in your taskbar and go to the Programs section. Civilization3x.exe and Microsoft Directplay 8 must be checked to 'Allow Connect' and 'Allow Server'.

If that doesn't help (i.e. let other people see your game), check if you're also behind a Hardware firewall, using the guide in the first post of this thread.

Warcraft 3 and Neverwinter Nights are a couple of examples of good multi-player - NWN allows 64 players at once on a high speed connection, WC3 has up to 8 playing real-time. Both perform flawlessly, with firewalls enabled. Firaxis can do this, they just need to get out in the field and use the stuff we use (try a few DSL and cable-modem connections and find out if certain ISP's are blocking transmissions)

You are wrong

This is Blizzard's support page for networking, firewalls and Routers

And here is Bioware's Short faq about setting up firewalls for NWN. The publisher of this game probably have more detailed support, but I can't be bothered to visit that site right now ( )

So, just like Firaxis, Bioware and Blizzard haven't found a (legal) way to program their way around firewalls and routers, I'm afraid. If you found that the games work without setup, it's just because those ports were opened on your hardware firewall, or because your software firewall was set up right

Let me know if you still have problems - people are able to set up games in the MP lobby, and so will you be if we figure out what's blocking you right now.

[art_vandelai]

Originally posted by isak

No, this is definitely your PC, and is a very good indication that you're either behind a NAT capable firewall or a software firewall which has not been opened correctly
Check Zonealarm's settings - double-click the icon in your taskbar and go to the Programs section. Civilization3x.exe and Microsoft Directplay 8 must be checked to 'Allow Connect' and 'Allow Server'.

I clued in last night when you mentioned Direct play. The problem was not a firewall problem at all. I had allowed ZA to open . I however did not have the IPX network installed. A quick trip over th the Network control panel, and installation of the Microsoft IPX protocol from my Win98 disk was required .

If that doesn't help (i.e. let other people see your game), check if you're also behind a Hardware firewall, using the guide in the first post of this thread.

After installing IPX, I was able to get people to join my game. I set up a quick game with 1 other player (who had a ping going in an out of green/yellow). The first move worked, building a city and moving a worker. After about 4 minutes of waiting to give my first worker orders, my opponent quit and that was that. Since then, nothing but more crashes.

Next, tried joining a game. This time, actually made it to the screen where you choose your civilization (before it would crash before going to that screen). When clicking on the drop down box, crash. So frustrating.

You are wrong

This is Blizzard's support page for networking, firewalls and Routers

And here is Bioware's Short faq about setting up firewalls for NWN. The publisher of this game probably have more detailed support, but I can't be bothered to visit that site right now ( )

Both of these games didn't require IPX to allow multi-player. All I had to do is set up ZoneAlarm to allow the games to act as a server. Didn't have to fiddle around with ports. I would have if I was using BlackIce Defender, I remember doing this for Age of Empires and it was a pain. part of the reason for my switch in firewalls, plus the ability to stop outbound traffic from stuff like trojans.

[isak]

This is stupefying me. Why would you need IPX to play a TCP/IP game over the internet? I find this hard to believe until I see some solid proof

It's more likely that some shared VXD or DLL file was missing or corrupt, and installing IPX fixed this problem, but re-installing your TCP/IP would have done the same.

[Dis]

well I have zonealarm. I suppose that counts as a firewall.

But other games work perfectly on it. All I had to do is let it have access to the internet. Games like Neverwinter Nights work perfectly.


edit: I just removed Zone Alarm and it still doesn't work.

I really don't know what to do now.

[isak]

Setting up ZoneAlarm to allow the game access to the internet is exactly what you're supposed to do. So if that doesn't help, something else is the problem.

Have you checked to see if you have a Hardware firewall? See the first post on how to do that.
If you don't, give a bit more description of what happens, and maybe someone here can figure out what's wrong.

[Dis]

well I know I don't have a hardware firewall. I put my computer together myself. I'm fairly handy at computers. I'm just not familiar with computer programming (my last class was Pascal )

I also checked my ip address.

The only thing I can think of is my ISP which is a cable modem service.

I'm tired, I'll mess with it more in the morning.

I actually made if fairly far. I was in the game setup screen. I moved the menu down to select Japan as my civ and the game completely froze. I managed to close down the game. But upon restarting I got a black screen. This has happened before after a crash and messed up my video drivers. Luckily I didn't have to reinstall my video drivers this time. I'm certain they aren't a problem as I can play hotseat and pbem.

I want to mess with it some more. But I hate having to restart my computer so much.

[isak]

This does not specifically sound like a firewall problem, but I'm not going to exclude the possibility totally

Have you tried re-installing Direct X 8.0 or 8.1 ? And have you tried updating your video card drivers.

About the crash, once you've got a 'Fatal Exception' or similar error, it seems to be a god given fact that the game will go on crashing until the computer is restarted, so even though it's a drag, it might save you some time in the long run.

Of course, your ISP might be a problem too - I know some Cable providers place all customers behind a proxy, and that can give you some problems, but like I said, judging from when your error occured, it doesn't sound a lot like a connection problem.

[Swissy]

Sounds more like a problem with the MP/Net software. Being your on a cable ISP, there is a good chance they are blocking inbound port 80. So if the GameSpy software is looking for game servers and isn't getting anything on port 80 (the one it uses for this search), it could be timing out and freezing. The program probably doesn't have any diagnostic loops in it, so it has no response for the situation and thus freezes. A well written program would tell you what the problem is, but Firaxis bought into GameSpy instead of developing their own MP system.

[isak]

Originally posted by Swissy
Sounds more like a problem with the MP/Net software. Being your on a cable ISP, there is a good chance they are blocking inbound port 80. So if the GameSpy software is looking for game servers and isn't getting anything on port 80 (the one it uses for this search), it could be timing out and freezing.

But he already got the server and joined - so I doubt that is the problem.

[Dis]

Damn I got it to work. Laggy as hell.

I of course had to turn off zone alarm. I was able to join a game. last night I tried hosting. I'll have to try hosting again.

I crushed my first human opponent!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel so good. He actually left the game- surrendered. I was overwhelming him with horseman. Of course it helps I have 9 or 10 cities and he only had 3. One of which he had to abandon. I didn't see that until the replay.

my recommendation if your have zone alarm and can't play multiplayer:
Turn off Zone Alarm

[kring]

There is a great reason for programs like Zone Alarm; if you have ever been hacked, or had firewall stop a hacker, you would understand the need for such programs.

[Dis]

yeah but the civ3 programmers don't realize this . I don't like taking it off, but oh well. My brother has a cable modem, uses no firewall, and has never been hacked. . Or at least that he knows of.

[isak]

Try it with ZoneAlarm on and this time make sure it allows the programs (Civilization3x.exe, Gamespy and Directplay) access to the internet and server rights.

I use zonealarm too, and I have no problems with it turned on.

And, I feel like i'm starting to repeat myself, but if there was a way for the Civ3 programmers to code their way around your firewall, it wouldn't really be worth sh**, would it?

[art_vandelai]

Received a message from Infogrammes Tech support last night FWIW. He said that I needed a "true IP connection" in order for the game to work, and suggested that I check with my ISP.

The girl at the ISP seemed clueless - said that my TCP/IP was working, since I was able to connect to the internet, browse and play other MP games successfully. I asked her to walk me through my settings to ensure I was OK, and I am apparantly connected OK.

I sent a message back asking if what he meant by "true TCP/IP connection " is a static IP address - my ISP uses DHCP and this may have something to do with what's causing the issues. If I get any more response from Infogrammes, I'll let the board know.

Here's how I got it to work, Last night I played a couple of hours of a great, albeit a little slow 3 player game, until getting booted due to loss of sync.

One of isak's messages on this thread mentioned "DirectPlay" having to be enabled as a server in order to play. In the list of programs which have attempted to connect to the internet, there was no listing at all for DirectPlay. I checked out the dxdiag, and noticed that DirectPlay has some settings which require it to connect using IPX protocol. I attempted to test those settings, but I couldn't see any other IP's out there on the list of test sites, so I knew DirectPlay wasn't connecting properly. Then, I went over to the Network panel and noticed that I had no IPX protocol enabled. I installed that protocol from the Win98 CD and rebooted the machine. Wnen I ran the game, sure enough I got a message from ZA asking me to authorize DirectPlay to connect to the internet, which I accepted, making sure to also enable it to act as a server.

I also had to change the internet zone in Zone Alarm from "high" to "medium" security. That does leave your computer visible and therefore more open to attack, but at least it lets the PTW traffic in.

[Dis]

well I did allow zone alarm server access. I'll have to try it again though. maybe it didn't stick.

[isak]

Originally posted by art_vandelai
I sent a message back asking if what he meant by "true TCP/IP connection " is a static IP address - my ISP uses DHCP and this may have something to do with what's causing the issues. If I get any more response from Infogrammes, I'll let the board know.

My ISP uses DHCP too, and it doesn't seem to cause any problems

Then, I went over to the Network panel and noticed that I had no IPX protocol enabled. I installed that protocol from the Win98 CD and rebooted the machine. Wnen I ran the game, sure enough I got a message from ZA asking me to authorize DirectPlay to connect to the internet, which I accepted, making sure to also enable it to act as a server.

It's great that you got it to work, but I still see no need for and IPX protocol. I can't explain why DirectPlay wasn't triggered before, but I know for sure that having an IPX protocol, isn't necessary. Coz, I ain't got one, you see

I also had to change the internet zone in Zone Alarm from "high" to "medium" security. That does leave your computer visible and therefore more open to attack, but at least it lets the PTW traffic in.

This probably helped a lot too, since Zone Alarm at highest security setting will block any traffic that hasn't specifically been requested for, and this could give anyone huge problems Hosting and Joining, I fear.

[duckthatsits]

I have the 1.04f patch and have been playing MP for over a week on a LAN with no crashes bugs or other problem.

I was able to play striaght out of the box, with no problems. I have not noticed any problems with slowdowns or speen issues (of course I have a 100mb full duplex LAN too .

Just thought some would like to hear from someone that is very pleased with the game and is having no problems.

[Panag]

hi ,

sometimes you get a chrash with dynamic ip on , .....

have a nice day

[isak]

Are you sure it's related to the Dynamic ip - i'm sure people are getting crashes with static ip too, so why do you think it's related to the dynamic ip?

The only thing I can think of is if your ISP's DHCP server performs 'violent' IP-updates, accidentally disconnecting you for a short period every time the server updates. But that would really be something you should get your ISP to take a look at, cause I'm sure that's not what's intended to happen.

Is that what you mean? If not, please elaborate

[Panag]

Originally posted by isak
Are you sure it's related to the Dynamic ip - i'm sure people are getting crashes with static ip too, so why do you think it's related to the dynamic ip?

The only thing I can think of is if your ISP's DHCP server performs 'violent' IP-updates, accidentally disconnecting you for a short period every time the server updates. But that would really be something you should get your ISP to take a look at, cause I'm sure that's not what's intended to happen.

Is that what you mean? If not, please elaborate

hi ,

if the same game does not chrash with one fixed ip , but does so with dynamic , .........

and there is the time-out from the isp , no problem with civ2 or other games , but chrash with civ3 , ......

and sometimes the server does not know you are online , even as a host , and you start to be pinged a zillion times , ones again a chrash

have a nice day

[art_vandelai]

From Infogrammes:

Actually, there's a number of ways in which your computer can connect to the
internet, and depending on what software your ISP provides, it may not be
configured correctly for a TCP/IP connection.

No, PTW does not require a static IP address. A true TCP/IP connection is
one that uses the TCP/IP protocols built into windows when connecting to the
internet, as compared to another program like WinPOET, or something unique
to your ISP. DHCP is a normal part of a proper connection, so you won't
need to worry about that either.

There are two options to try. First, you could contact your ISP again, and
make sure that you've got the connection setup properly to play games, and
that you don't have anything like a firewall that's obstructing your ports.

Second, you could try loading up Gamespy Arcade from the PTW cd. PTW uses
the Gamespy Arcade software as a game browser, so running Arcade
independently could give you an idea of what's happening. If Arcade can
run, and play other multiplayer games on your computer fine, then we'll know
that you're having a problem with the game. If it doesn't run, we'll know
it's a problem with your connection.

[Yodaz]

My server runs Windows 2000 with ICS and I myself use Windows 2000 too. Anyone know of any way to open those ports on my server or any other program that might make it more easy? I haven't seem to find anyone replying to it here and there must be lots of ppl stuck behind a Windows 2000 ICS.

[Asterothe]

I used to play PTW without poblem till
I got a router. (linksys) Even after that
I was able to join games and play. But now
most of the times I cannot even join games.
yeterday I didi once , all the rest I was told to
open ports. I am using default
settings for LinkSys. What should I do?

[Panag]

Originally posted by art_vandelai
From Infogrammes:

Actually, there's a number of ways in which your computer can connect to the
internet, and depending on what software your ISP provides, it may not be
configured correctly for a TCP/IP connection.

No, PTW does not require a static IP address. A true TCP/IP connection is
one that uses the TCP/IP protocols built into windows when connecting to the
internet, as compared to another program like WinPOET, or something unique
to your ISP. DHCP is a normal part of a proper connection, so you won't
need to worry about that either.

There are two options to try. First, you could contact your ISP again, and
make sure that you've got the connection setup properly to play games, and
that you don't have anything like a firewall that's obstructing your ports.

Second, you could try loading up Gamespy Arcade from the PTW cd. PTW uses
the Gamespy Arcade software as a game browser, so running Arcade
independently could give you an idea of what's happening. If Arcade can
run, and play other multiplayer games on your computer fine, then we'll know
that you're having a problem with the game. If it doesn't run, we'll know
it's a problem with your connection.

hi ,

internet works fine , its just that arcade thing that aint correct , not to mention about all the things that need to be fixed , so when is the new patch going to be there firaxis

have a nice day

[isak]

Originally posted by panag
internet works fine

If only things were that simple, Panag. The fact that your internet connection lets you browse HTML and probably connect to a POP3 server to get your email, doesn't mean that it works perfectly in every respect. There are numerous things that can be wrong with your internet connection, but which don't show up until you try to use a specific application which needs those resources.

And the fact that other games work, only means they don't need the resources that are currently (probably) not working on your computer.

I have dynamic IP and the game works for me, so there is your proof that there is nothing wrong (per se) with Dynamic IP in PtW.

Still not saying that PtW is bugfree even after 1.14f, but don't you ever want to play the game in MP like the rest of us are now doing? Maybe it's time you started giving us more information about what happens when you try to connect. The fact that 'there is a crash' isn't really very helpful. What kind of crash is it? Any error messages? Does it happen every time or is it tied to doing things in a special sequence. Does it only happen under some circumstances? How do you know that you are the one experiencing the crash and not someone else trying to join the same game as you? Etc. etc. etc...

PC's are complicated stuff - figuring out what's wrong with them is twice as complicated, especially if you're trying to figure it out in complete darkness, blindfolded and with both hands tied behind your back. So speak up!

[Panag]

Originally posted by isak


If only things were that simple, Panag. The fact that your internet connection lets you browse HTML and probably connect to a POP3 server to get your email, doesn't mean that it works perfectly in every respect. There are numerous things that can be wrong with your internet connection, but which don't show up until you try to use a specific application which needs those resources.

And the fact that other games work, only means they don't need the resources that are currently (probably) not working on your computer.

I have dynamic IP and the game works for me, so there is your proof that there is nothing wrong (per se) with Dynamic IP in PtW.

Still not saying that PtW is bugfree even after 1.14f, but don't you ever want to play the game in MP like the rest of us are now doing? Maybe it's time you started giving us more information about what happens when you try to connect. The fact that 'there is a crash' isn't really very helpful. What kind of crash is it? Any error messages? Does it happen every time or is it tied to doing things in a special sequence. Does it only happen under some circumstances? How do you know that you are the one experiencing the crash and not someone else trying to join the same game as you? Etc. etc. etc...

PC's are complicated stuff - figuring out what's wrong with them is twice as complicated, especially if you're trying to figure it out in complete darkness, blindfolded and with both hands tied behind your back. So speak up!

hi ,

ahem , when panag says internet is fine then it means its fine , there is nothing wrong with the connections , ..... when you get from half a dozen countries the same errors , with different types of connections and still have the same error , even with different OS , well is there not a good chance then there is something wrong , PC is easy , just follow some basic rules , when you buy one you open the box and read the book , if the book aint good call the people who sold it , etc , ......

but here there are to many things wrong , for starters , some people who have Xdsl get an dynamic ip like every so many minutes or whatever , thats a problem , actually the whole multiplayer is full of things that could be solved , ..... to long to mention here

why dont they just trow the arcade out

why dont they take a couple comps , set one up in DC the other one in Chicago , ..... and then they just have to wait and see , .....

have a nice day

[isak]

I have XDSL and my dynamic ip is updated every 30 minutes - it isn't giving me any problems

I know that a lot of people experience crashes, but that doesn't mean it's the same error. The same error message can be caused by a number of unrelated things. And vice versa, the same problem can trigger a number of different error messages.

And yes, basic PC skills are easily achieved, but you can not by looking at the computer tell whether your TCP/IP protocol is broken, your Windows Registry is corrupt, your Winsock is outdated, your Infrared devices are bugging your Ethernet Adapter, your Internal Modem is interfering with your Client program or your Printer server is trying to take your PC's IP adress.... and that's just for starters.

If PC's were simple, I'd be unemployed today, so I thank god they're not

After Direct IP has been introduced, I guess it would be possible to throw Arcade out, but they've already made a deal with Gamespy, and besides, not everyone is comfortable handing out their own IP adress just to play a game. (re: the invention of firewalls btw.). Heck, some people even seem to enjoy hanging out in the Gamespy lobby. Peace be with that.

If you only have problems when you try to use Gamespy, you either need to find out why, or stop using Gamespy - pretty straightforward, and not something we should expect Infogrames to break a contract over, is it?