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Old November 6, 2002, 12:17   #181
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Dino: I agree that he didn't craft his own message. He fell back on the party briefings and rhetorical lines that the national Dems fed him. I guess it's understandable. Hard to do much in a couple of days. But those rhetorical lines were either real losers, or weren't backed up by alternative policies.

Re the debate, I'm guessing that it was replayed during the evening.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:20   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Hard to do much in a couple of days.
I can not tell you how many national shows I saw with Coleman as a guest saying that they tried to get Mondale as a guest but he refused/never returned calls/whatever.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:21   #183
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All tactics. I don't think this one was won or lost on minutae. They had a debate and Coleman did well in the debate. Mondale delivered the rhetorical lines from the national party well enough.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:22   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Che: Do you have access to the premium articles on Salon?
Yep. Paid for it back while I was still a working stiff.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:24   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yep. Paid for it back while I was still a working stiff.
Can you quote the article Big win for Bush, GOP. It should be on thier frontpage. The preview I saw looked interesting.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:25   #186
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Cheap bastard.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:28   #187
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Carnahan hammered away at it, but apparently nobody bought it.
"Hammered away?" I must have missed that. Yeah, her ads mentioned things like this sometimes, but it wasn't the central theme of her campaign. Come to think of it, there wasn't any central theme (see above post).

BTW, Is Conason premium? I read the whole thing earlier, and I didn't pay.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:31   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Can you quote the article Big win for Bush, GOP. It should be on thier frontpage. The preview I saw looked interesting.
It's not that intersting, but here it is.

===========================

Big win for Bush, GOP
With Congress now firmly in Republican hands, the White House will push its agenda more aggressively than ever.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joan Walsh



Nov. 5, 2002 | President Bush ended Election Night 2002 with an outcome that eluded him two years ago: a resounding Republican victory.

The GOP won control of the Senate early Wednesday after Missouri Sen. Jean Carnahan conceded to Republican Jim Talent, and strengthened its hold in the House of Representatives as well. Though key states like Minnesota and South Dakota remained too close too call hours after the polls closed, the GOP won an upset Senate victory in Georgia and closely watched races in North Carolina, New Hampshire and Colorado. And the party won some important statehouse victories as well. The historic tone of the night was set early, when the president's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, won reelection easily over Democrat Bill McBride.

President Bush made the election at least partly a referendum on his own popularity -- and his handling of the economy and the war on terrorism -- and had been criss-crossing the country since August to shore up GOP chances in the House, Senate and statehouses. And it apparently worked. "The person who deserves the most credit tonight is the president of the United States," said former Christian Coalition leader (and now Georgia GOP chair) Ralph Reed. "He stitched himself a pair of coattails," conceded CNN "Crossfire" co-host and Democratic strategist Paul Begala.

Bush could sweep in some bold change on those same coattails. With control of both houses of Congress, he would be able to push through his controversial conservative judicial appointments, make sure his tax cut isn't repealed and weaken environmental protections. Working with a new, more Republican Congress, he is also likely to face even less congressional restraint on his moves against Iraq.

Republicans won an upset Senate victory in Georgia when Rep. Saxby Chambliss defeated Democratic incumbent Sen. Max Cleland. Republican Elizabeth Dole beat Erskine Bowles, former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, to take North Carolina's Senate seat, and Rep. John Sununu defeated New Hampshire's Democratic governor, Jeanne Shaheen, to win New Hampshire. In President Bush's home state of Texas, Republican Attorney General John Cornyn defeated former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk to succeed GOP Sen. Phil Gramm. The GOP held on to all five open Senate seats being vacated by Republican incumbents.

There were a few victories for Democrats: Democratic Attorney General Mark Pryor defeated Republican incumbent Sen. Tim Hutchinson in Arkansas, and former Sen. Frank Lautenberg beat Republican Douglas Forrester in New Jersey. South Dakota Sen. Tim Johnson was leading his Republican challenger, Rep. John Thune.

Beyond Florida, Republicans won several key statehouse races: In Maryland, Lt. Gov. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the oldest daughter of Robert F. Kennedy, lost to Rep. Bob Ehrlich, and in Massachussetts, Republican Mitt Romney defeated state Treasurer Shannon O'Brien. In a big upset, Georgia Gov. Roy Barnes, a Democrat, lost to Republican challenger Sonny Perdue.

With Democrats holding a one-vote margin in the Senate and Republicans up only six votes in the House, the surprising defeat of incumbent Cleland in Georgia set the tone for the night. A Vietnam veteran who lost three limbs in combat, he was hurt by hard-hitting Chambliss ads questioning his patriotism and linking him to Osama bin Laden because he voted with Democrats to delay action on parts of Bush's homeland security plan.

Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle promised the Democrats would continue to fight Bush's agenda. "Giving the Republican Party carte blanche in the Senate, House and White House is not something that the American people want," Daschle said.

But faced with losing his job, Daschle also came in for criticism from the right and left Tuesday night. His decision to delay the homeland security vote was blamed for giving Bush an issue to use against incumbents like Cleland. Critics on the left blamed Daschle and the Democrats' reluctance to energetically challenge Bush on his handling of the economy and Iraq for the party's unprecedented midterm defeat. "It's not about moving right or left, it's about standing for something," said James Carville, an architect of President Clinton's victories.

Even before the polls opened, the election was noteworthy because it was expected to be the first time in recent history the party that held the White House would not lose seats in the midterm election. Since 1934, the president's party has won House seats in midterm elections only twice -- and both of those victories went to Democrats.

There were odd and tragic twists in at least two races: New Jersey's Sen. Robert Torricelli abandoned his campaign in October, tainted by scandal, and Lautenberg needed help from the courts to get on the ballot. And just 10 days ago, progressive Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Democrat, died in a plane crash, along with his wife, daughter and some campaign staff, forcing the party to turn to former Vice President Walter Mondale to take his place on the ballot against former St. Paul Mayor Norm Coleman.

The day was marked by Democratic complaints about voter intimidation in Tennessee, Texas, Maryland and Pennsylvania. An Arkansas judge kept the polls open an extra 90 minutes in Pulaski County after Democrats complained that some polling places ran out of ballots. The Justice Department dispatched 400 lawyers and observers to watch polls around the country, and both party organizations also had armies of monitors in the field to watch for voting irregularities.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:31   #189
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How about "hammered away" in her usual, ineffective style? Does that work?
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:33   #190
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Great quote from the Git, i.e., Todd Gitlin.

=============================

Todd Gitlin, professor of journalism and culture at New York University and author of "Media Unlimited":
What to conclude from a train wreck? Reasoning on the basis of slender evidence is always a difficult business, and is at the least premature, but a few conclusions are likely. The Republicans care about power more than the Democrats. They recruit more impressive candidates, fight harder, raise more money, act more ruthlessly. The Democrats weasel -- and it avails naught. They failed to nationalize their campaign to exploit corporate corruption and Bush's connivance in it. Supporting the Bush war resolution proved useless. The Republicans took over the agenda anyway. For Democrats, there's not going to be any automatic recovery. To win is going to take a long time, much energy and discipline -- not yet in evidence.

(emphasis added)
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:34   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by uh Clem
BTW, Is Conason premium? I read the whole thing earlier, and I didn't pay.
Sometimes, sometimes not. Today he's not.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:37   #192
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"But faced with losing his job, Daschle also came in for criticism from the right and left Tuesday night. His decision to delay the homeland security vote was blamed for giving Bush an issue to use against incumbents like Cleland."

I do think this issue had a lot of traction against the democrats--they should have cut bait on this one and sent the bill to conference before the debates. Bureaucrats and unions aren't exactly the most popular group of folks...
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:38   #193
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This is such a good day... irregardless what democrats whine about... this is a certainly good day... this is a victory of massive proportions for the republicans and their allies...
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:43   #194
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I'll bet they're nervous in Iraq this morning.
RAH
The whole world is getting nervous actually.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:57   #195
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I bet the whole Iraq thing is suddenly going to become less important for Bush...
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:03   #196
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Tomorrow's or Friday's headlines...

"US breaks UN logjam, passes tough new resolution"
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:07   #197
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No no no, Iraq has served its purpose for Bush now.
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:09   #198
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And Bush will finish what he started... eliminating the Iraqi Dictator...
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:43   #199
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Yeeehaw!

It was amazing seeing Saxby Chambliss and Sonny Perdue break in and defeat Max Cleland and Roy Barnes. Upsets of the year! Georgia has its first Republican governor since Reconstruction!! South Carolina also went Republican for Governor and Senate!

Amazing, it is based on three things:

1) The Continuing Underestimation of President Bush - Bush did the unprecedented swing of states before the midterm election, and in EVERY state he visited, the candidate recieved a LARGE bump. His foray into Georgia is probably the reason the Republicans won big here. He's turning out to be better the master politician than Clinton was.

2) Democrats had no ideas - The Democrats seemed to just say this was wrong, that was wrong and offer no solutions. The same time in the close races, they allied themselves with Bush, when their voting record did not show that.

3) Memorial that turned into a rally - Wellstone's funeral/rally, did not only win the race for Coleman in Minnesota but energized Republicans all around the country. I tell you, they were fighting mad about that, and that happened bring out Republicans.
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:45   #200
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It's gonna be an intersting couple of years. I hope my heart can stand it.
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:47   #201
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Quote:
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Yeeehaw!
I thought that you went Libertarian due to your disgust with the Bush foreign policy?
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:53   #202
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fez
This is such a good day... irregardless what democrats whine about... this is a certainly good day... this is a victory of massive proportions for the republicans and their allies...
Irregardless is only a word insofar that "nuke-you-lar" is an accepted pronounciation of "nuclear". It is accepted because of mass ignorance.

It's just one of those pet peeves that everyone of us has; to me, "irregardless" is like someone clawing at a chalkboard.

And Dan, if Fez uses the word, it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.


The Democrats deserved to lose, just like Gore deserved to lose 2000. No cojones. None. There is no opposition party in America.
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Old November 6, 2002, 13:56   #203
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I thought that you went Libertarian due to your disgust with the Bush foreign policy?
The Republicans are the better of two evils. I want that tax cut permanent!

When you can show me a Libertarian that had a chance, then I'll root for him .
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:09   #204
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Quote:
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Irregardless is only a word insofar that "nuke-you-lar" is an accepted pronounciation of "nuclear". It is accepted because of mass ignorance.
If you look up in the dictionary you will not find that pronunciation of the word nuclear. You will, howegver, find the word irregardless. Irregardless has been considered a wrod for quite some time. I pointed this out to a friend late 80s early 90s. Language is a living thing, it changes, it grows. Words that were once unacceptable become part of grammar. Words get used in new ways. Two hundred years ago if you said someone was nice you were saying something unking about them. Double negatives used to be standard English. Get over it.

Or do you take issue with inflamable.
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:10   #205
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Guynemer, I see your location..... democrat safehaven.... am I right? Stop insulting me.
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:24   #206
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Guynemer: Don't push me! I'll start praising Bush's strategery in this election. I swear I will!

And then you'll be sorry.
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:27   #207
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I will go fezballistic on you guynemer... you will get major headaches...
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:33   #208
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Fez, trying his best to be a tarbaby.
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Old November 6, 2002, 14:55   #209
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Location: In the memmories of the past
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I agree with Imran, the Dems did a rotten job.

Che, printing words of woe from Libs isn't exactly compelling, saying "now Bush will no longer have a scapegoat" is kind of silly.

As for Clinton, I believe he's the biggest Albatross the Dems have, he's a walking billboard for wrong doing and bald faced lies.
You can ACCUSE Bush of wrong doing, but you can PROVE it with slick Willy, they need to jetison him.
BAD.

I laughed at the Fritz Mondale thing, the Dems accused the Repubs of fossilization with Dole in 96, so who do they roll out in 2002?
A guy routed in the 1970s, as well as Frank Lautenburg, a RETIRED dude who was none to effective in his prime, and only by playing fast and lose with the law again.

NJ is the real loser there.

The fun part is, in just two years, the Dems can be right back on top, such is US politics.
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Old November 6, 2002, 15:45   #210
Winston
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Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Curious question from an ignorant foreigner:

I've seen references a couple of times to 'reconstruction' - Perdue first Rep. Governor in Georgia since reconstruction; Kirk fails to become first black senator from Texas since reconstruction. When did this reconstruction take place - and what was it exactly?
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