Unofficial: What wars would you support? (last try, really!)

Kloreep · November 12, 2002, 02:37

Pretty basic question, really: against which Civs, if any, would you support war? I've included some far-out options like Rome; I figured I'd include them for the heck of it.

Remember that anyone might be able to pull in allies. Any war with the Zulu would be an intercontinental invasion, but it will probably be a while before they get Riflemen (whereas other Civs already have Nationalism or are close to it), as they still need Chemistry in their quest for the Industrial Age.

And this time, I included a "None" option.

Poll lasts 5 days.

Torkkeli · November 12, 2002, 02:43

Limited war against England and Germany or no war at all.....

E_T · November 12, 2002, 02:49

Otto, Liz, Shaka & Alex, in that order.

E_T

Kloreep · November 12, 2002, 03:21

I'm not sure if we'll have time to finish off those three powers before infantry. (The Zulu are backwards and can wait while we get in some more pre-infantry bashing on Abanaba.) Unless, of course, all three ally against us, in which case we have very different problems on our hands.

Nevertheless, I would support war with anyone on this list except Rome and Russia. However, I think Greece should be left for last (and delayed till Tanks if they get Infantry). Their territory isn't gonna be productive for us anytime soon, and Germany is more powerful anyway. (And England's cities would be fairly productive thanks to the FP.)

roadcage · November 12, 2002, 11:46

roleplay

Ssgt roadcage (retired) put on his uniform today so he could give a proper salute to that great leader Khufu. The leader was here in Macross City for the express purpose of forming a grand Apolytonian Army. Khufu had opened a recruitment office just down the street from roadcage's retirement home and he planned to report in and plead his case for re-enlistment. Roadcage had to struggle since many turns of civilian life with his beloved Y'vette had increased his girth above the fighting weight he had so carefully maintained over his entire active career.

Yes, it had been a good career. Roadcage had been built to warrior specifications in the Capitol city of Apolyton, soon after the completion of the barracks. He had been in the stacks of the first American conflict, but saw no action. He had been upgraded to swordsman specifications just prior to the First French campaign, and was in the thick of things and earned his elite hitpoint with the capture of the french town now known as Macross City. He remained garrisoned there just long enough to fall in love, marry and put a WC into the build queue. Then it was off to the mysterious far east and the Persian front. He saw much action in Persia and notched several victories as an Elite, but the gods had not smiled upon his efforts. He had been there when his fellow in arms had spawned Cheops, but that was long ago and far away. After the conclusion of the Persian campaign, he had been temporarily garisoned in the former Persian town now known as Muncie. Eventually, his period of enlistment ended and rather than re-up he had returned to Macross City and the love of his life Y'vette.

So today, Ssgt roadcage (retired) began his journey to the house that Khufu built to see if a Swordsman, master of the edge elite status, bedecked with the scars and medals of campaigns of yesteryear, could join the great one in his quest. A quest denied him and granted to others by the rules of chance.

The sun beat down upon roadcage as he approached the recruiting station, and he was grateful for the brim on the cap of his ceremonial uniform. He entered briskly with a flair almost by instinct for it had been many many turns since his mustering out. And behold, there in the vestibule was none other than the Great Lord Khufu!

Khufu sprang up, approached and said, "Oh elite swordsman, why do you come to my station today?"

"To join you in your quest for glory sir", replied roadcage.

"Alas it will never be, for I expect to fill my Army with Cavalry. The blitz capability could make all the difference. But who knows, each unit in my Army must be a volunteer, and my quest may not interest the new pony boys. Lets see if you can qualify just in case."

"Will you follow me faithfully to Berlin?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to Athens?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to London?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to Rome?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to Moscow?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to Zimbabewe?", and roadcage replied "by your command"

"Will you follow me faithfully to wherever the hoomans direct me?", and roadcage replied "such is the obligation of Duty, Honor, and Country I first declared that fateful turn on the Apolyton barracks steps and repeat here today"

"Thank you roadcage, your answers are all correct. You are truly qualified to join my Army, but I still want to fill the slots with Cavalry. I hope you understand. Oh, one other thing, your name is somehow familiar to me."

"Are you the Sword that captured Macross City?", to which roadcage replied, "That was long ago Sir"

"No roadcage, I salute you Sir. You faced a worthy foe. A top of the line spear at the time" At Avignon, I also faced a spear, but in todays terms an outdated unsuitable enemy. Your courage was far greater than mine"

/roleplay

edit (forgot Moscow)

joncnunn · November 12, 2002, 14:55

I think we should Annex England before Germany. And after annexing Germany annex Greece.

civman2000 · November 12, 2002, 15:47

War when? I think it would be a good idea to conquer all of Abananaba Major or the southern half of it + Abananaba Minor by the end of the game, but no wars anytime soon.

joncnunn · November 12, 2002, 16:30

These wars need to start now before Infentry appears.

Those latest trade deals we made with these candidates were a mistake.

But perhaps we can just repeately offer them a deal they consider insulting until they declare war without the rep hit?

Arnelos · November 12, 2002, 16:40

If we fight ANY wars, they need to be divide and conquer. Go afer ONE AT AT TIME. We could even sign alliances with some AI civs against our one target... then sign alliances against the next target (who could even have been allied with us against the first).

I don't want to go up against a huge AI MPP-block

ruby_maser · November 12, 2002, 17:46

The time of going it alone in war is rapidly coming to an end. Alliances, MPPs and even trade embargoes IMHO will reflect how certain nations will gang up on others. We need to be apart of this... pick carefully and weigh our option but not isolate ourselves and lose the advantage/necessary evil (you pick...) of allies.

Our nearest neighbors need to go, but Germany's the most critical, I think, as I don't like the idea of their having a profitable golden age in the near future being that:
(a.) they are the tech leader and this will only boost that
(b.) they will sell those techs and proliferate knowledge... we should be doing that
(c.) (I believe) they have Copernicus close by, and it should be at the very least taken away if not milked into a great city of our own
(d.) their UU is a future threat to us... more so than the Man'o Wars or Hoplites anyway

but we must do this knowing fully that they may bring someone else in against us and we must prepare for that. I'm not advocating attacking whoever they might bring in unless they have assets nearby for the taking; I am advocating a conflict where a defensive war might well play a role.

joncnunn · November 12, 2002, 18:07

In Civ III, I'm not sure what the point of a pure defensive war is unless the oppoent is on some other land mass.

If they are on your own land mass, they will quickly committ all their resources against you. If you beat off this attack, it's a realitive cake walk to roll up their empire.

Sure, we can have the first stage of these wars on our boarder city inside our cultural boundary if we want to, but after we successfuly beat off that attack, go take their cities.

Arnelos · November 12, 2002, 18:10

Btw... with the odds being cavalry ALONE -vs- riflemen...

We're going to need TONS AND TONS of cannons...

If this poll passes (which seems likely), I heavily suggest that the CP (and then the Domestic Minister) concentrate on building us a nice artillery corps of plenty of cannons (along with mobile riflemen stacks to defend the cannon stacks while in enemy territory).

joncnunn · November 12, 2002, 18:15

On why annex (most of) England first instead of Germany:

The main portion of England currently has two neighbors, Germany and us.

Germany has 4 neighbors. In realtive order:
Aztecs
England
Apolyton
Greece

(Perhaps part of Persia as well)

From a defensive stand point, it's much easier to defend Germany if we don't have England to worry about.

The same reasoning is why I'm against war with both Rome and Russia. Unless they need to be punished, we are best off waiting for one of Rome, Russia, and Babylon to annex the other two and then jump on the winner or else declare war on all three at the same time.
(Jumping on the winner while he is weak is much prefered.)

UnOrthOdOx · November 12, 2002, 18:18

Let us finish what we started. Germany has betrayed us, they stabbed us in the back, attempting to take advantage of our offensive in France, (I should know, I was acting president at the time) let us bring their nation under our influence in order to show all the world that you cannot expect to stab our mighty nation in the back and prosper from that act. Send Bismark to the far reaches of the globe to cower in fear alongside his friend Xerxes while each attempts to carve out some form of pathetic existance.

E_T · November 12, 2002, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos
Btw... with the odds being cavalry ALONE -vs- riflemen...

We're going to need TONS AND TONS of cannons...

If this poll passes (which seems likely), I heavily suggest that the CP (and then the Domestic Minister) concentrate on building us a nice artillery corps of plenty of cannons (along with mobile riflemen stacks to defend the cannon stacks while in enemy territory).

We currently have some cannons in the Works.

ET_

Arnelos · November 12, 2002, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by E_T

We currently have some cannons in the Works.

ET_

Glad to hear it. We're gonna need 'em...

Kloreep · November 12, 2002, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos
If this poll passes (which seems likely),

This poll is strictly unofficial; (Perhaps I should have emphasized that more, but it is in the thread title.

) I only wanted to see if there really was popular support before the War Academy thread got carried away.

Seperate polls for actual declaration of war would have to be set up. It currently looks like Germany and England are the only two acceptable targets, but I'm sure many have yet to vote.

Jonny · November 12, 2002, 22:16

I believe that it is not in our best interest to go and conquer other nations at the time. Any potential gains would be nullified by the increased amount of corruption and waste.

The only war I would support at the moment would be a war against Russia. And, the only goal of that war would be to take Krasnoyarsk, just so we don't have that one city in the middle of our territory.

Duddha · November 12, 2002, 22:18

Kill them all!

Meshelic · November 12, 2002, 23:37

If the time is right for world war, why don't we drag the whole world in with us?

Too bad the Japanese Chinese and Indians are not really part of the greater Apolytonian continent; they are not of much use to us in a world war.

Let me search my Shadow Service records, I remember commissioning several agents to the German area, and I also recall several people opposing the reports they came back with, stating that the Germans are preparing for war with us.

How interesting is that? My early warnings went unheeded when the Germans had just begun to build their military to it's present size, and now that they are powerful they want to send our boys into war! Alas, I shall support this war nonetheless, but remember, the Shadow Service was there long ago!

Regardless, in these interests I shall furnish the Apolytonian Army with horses, iron, and able fighting men from my own Shadow Service ranks to accompany our soldiers into battle.... ONE word of caution though, do not swing your axe or fire your rifle those figures who travel in the shadows, for my men are trained to be silent and invisible like shadows themselves.

Should my men suffer friendly-fire casualties there may be hell to pay, so be forewarned.

ruby_maser · November 12, 2002, 23:40

Quote:

Originally posted by joncnunn
In Civ III, I'm not sure what the point of a pure defensive war is unless the oppoent is on some other land mass.

If they are on your own land mass, they will quickly committ all their resources against you. If you beat off this attack, it's a realitive cake walk to roll up their empire.

Sure, we can have the first stage of these wars on our boarder city inside our cultural boundary if we want to, but after we successfuly beat off that attack, go take their cities.

I'll tell you what the point is... The point is that if we were to attack, say, Germany and they brought in an ally against us, we should IMO stay focused on the German attack and not incite more war weariness among our people by going on the offensive against a new enemy or spread our attack too thinly. Rather, we should stay on focus and finish the first conflict which is a "offensive" campaign and simply push back the attacks of the new ally against our homeland; thus, we have an offensive war and a "defensive" war going on at the same time.

This is something we haven't had to experience before because the forces arrayed against us were not nearly so well organized or powerful enough to really threaten Apolytonian lands.

Arnelos · November 12, 2002, 23:58

Quote:

Originally posted by ruby_maser

I'll tell you what the point is... The point is that if we were to attack, say, Germany and they brought in an ally against us, we should IMO stay focused on the German attack and not incite more war weariness among our people by going on the offensive against a new enemy or spread our attack too thinly. Rather, we should stay on focus and finish the first conflict which is a "offensive" campaign and simply push back the attacks of the new ally against our homeland; thus, we have an offensive war and a "defensive" war going on at the same time.

This is something we haven't had to experience before because the forces arrayed against us were not nearly so well organized or powerful enough to really threaten Apolytonian lands.

This entire issue can be circumvented with this thing called an "alliance", should the public actually support the formation of such odd things...

ruby_maser · November 13, 2002, 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos
This entire issue can be circumvented with this thing called an "alliance"

I think our border is too precarious to assume an alliance will buffer us from an attack against our homeland

Randolph · November 13, 2002, 11:20

I've never thought of myself as a peace-lover (in Civ that is

), but I really don't see the game play benefit (opposed to 'movement towards victory'). We're already bridging on becoming so powerful that it's not all that fun. For me it's not peacetime that's boring, but rather tedious wars that I know I'm going to win. Let’s face it someone who has play 3 games of Civ could win any of these wars.

Yet it looks like whether or not we go to war isn’t even really an issue, just with whom and how.

Randolph · November 13, 2002, 11:23

If we do go to war I say we intentionally take on 3+ civs at the same time... at least that would be a challenge

Meshelic · November 13, 2002, 14:20

Randolph speaks in terms parallel to the Hawk Party sentiments. let us take three nations on! who can defeat us? none! the English and German Empires have been building on land set aside for us by the Great Banana, and we must appease the banana's thirst for war!

World War is on the horizon, we must take the appropriate steps...

Arnelos · November 13, 2002, 20:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Meshelic
Randolph speaks in terms parallel to the Hawk Party sentiments. let us take three nations on! who can defeat us? none! the English and German Empires have been building on land set aside for us by the Great Banana, and we must appease the banana's thirst for war!

World War is on the horizon, we must take the appropriate steps...

And dare I say it while I'm running for Foreign Affairs Minister, but THIS is precisely what makes people scared to join your party

Personally, I would oppose any war with more than one enemy civ at at time if we can possibly avoid it. There's no reason to give our enemies an unecessary advantage simply for kicks... that is a WEAKNESS entirely ill-suited to the true hegemon.

Panag · November 14, 2002, 13:36

hi ,

we should build our cities a bit further , modernise the army , make a cash reserve , and then BANG , we nail them , .... all of them

have a nice day

joncnunn · November 14, 2002, 14:07

The problem with a delay now is that Germany is currently the fastest researching AI.

The more turns we wait, the fewer turns of attacking we can do before Infentry comes onto the scene and wars have to wait for Tanks. Given that Germany gets Panzers, that is also a bad time to go attacking them. Besides which, Germany gets to build Panzers before we can build Tanks.

We need to take them out now. (At least to the point where they we never be a major science power again.)

SABRA · November 15, 2002, 14:27

No more war , we should stop for now and try to get on our feet first !