November 12, 2002, 10:12
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#1
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Warlord
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 248
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Yep, it's a totally different beast...
This is not so much a complaint as an observation: Has anyone noticed that the starting positions on the random maps tend to be scrap for the human players ?
I've been experimenting with the new civs and have found that most games don't last past 1000 AD, because I have yet to get a decent start. I've seen some wonderful resources around my cities, but without rivers to irrigate, you can't come close to producing settlers at the rate the AI civs do it. And this leaves only warmongering to balance the scale. The AI civs all seem to get starts with either Flood Plains or at least a river at their capital site.
The last game I started was a classic. Two hills with gold, two wheat on plains, and desert all around. I explored a considerable area of the map before running into anyone, and I couldn't find a river to irrigate with so the best I could do was 2 food per square. As a credit to the first AI civ I found, it had irrigated almost every square possible and had populations of 5-6 in all their cities, while the best I had was 4 and most were stuck at 2.
This is not a chance occurence since every start since installing and patching PtW has been like this. And as for resources, the maps seem to have more resources so trading options are minimal or non existant (and I still have use the editory to get the silly AI civs to build harbours when they are on small continents...)
I like the AI agressiveness, but it will take some more tinkering to balance out the playing field at Regent level at least. It's enough to be behind by a couple of units or techs, but to have to be dead last in population is a death sentence at any level.
D.
__________________
"Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
leads the flock to fly and follow"
- Chinese Proverb
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November 12, 2002, 10:18
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#2
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Chieftain
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 75
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Last game I started was right next to a river, lots grassland and gold on a mountain nearby. Decent spots for second and third cities close by, with incence and wine.
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The true nature of a man is shown by what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.
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November 12, 2002, 10:43
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#3
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King
Local Time: 05:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Right down the road
Posts: 2,321
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I disagree, it's a crap shoot. Sometimes you luck out other times you don't. More often than not I've had a decent start are.
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November 12, 2002, 10:49
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#4
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Warlord
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 248
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Warpstorm,
I know it's supposed to be luck of the draw, but every game since the install ? (about 10 starts)
The ones I love the best are the small islands with mountains as the most common land type, or the peninsula and mountains combination. I guess I was spoiled by locations I could work to better advantage in CivIII. At least the terrain looks nice even if I can't do much with it.
D.
__________________
"Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
leads the flock to fly and follow"
- Chinese Proverb
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November 12, 2002, 19:12
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#5
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Prince
Local Time: 05:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 687
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It's just bad luck, I guess. I have great and decent starts, but not really any bad ones since install.
__________________
I AM.CHRISTIAN
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November 12, 2002, 19:23
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
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I'm with the General... I've been getting crap. I'm a re-starter though, within reason, so ctrl-shft-q it is.
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The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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November 13, 2002, 00:39
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#7
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Prince
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
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I almost always get a river at startup, I almost thought it was automatic. What I hate is all the jungle I usually have to clear somewhere in my civ. But once it's cleared, that's very satisfying.
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November 13, 2002, 01:12
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#8
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Deity
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
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Been getting rivers at least half the time.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
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November 13, 2002, 01:30
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#9
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Warlord
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 248
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At least I'm not alone
Theseus,
It's good to know I'm not the only one. Thought I was loosing it or something.
Guess it's back to being fussy about the starting site again. With 1.29, I never had a site I couldn't work given some scouting, but like I said, it's a totally different beast now.
Well I have yet to try the Koreans so they will get the next round of abuse from the AI.
D.
__________________
"Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
leads the flock to fly and follow"
- Chinese Proverb
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November 13, 2002, 01:43
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 02:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 151
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yea i been gettin really crappy starting positions too.
my major problem right now is the barbarians. i think the barbarians in ptw puts out warriors and horseman at a very high rate. one turn u see 1 barb warrior and next turn u see 2 barb, 2 horsies and its tuff to run all of dem down.
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November 13, 2002, 02:29
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#11
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Space
Posts: 5,117
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Actually, I've gotten some of the best start locations I've ever had since the XP. So, I guess that just reinforces the crap-shoot idea.
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November 13, 2002, 15:05
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#12
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Prince
Local Time: 05:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 660
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I used to get rivers, and sometimes rivers with shields and a bunch of cattle...now I rarely see cattle...and many times I am not near a river. I'm in the cntrl shift q crowd. If it doesn't look good, then I don't bother.
__________________
"If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.
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November 14, 2002, 02:37
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#13
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Not Mayberry, NC
Posts: 140
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I've had a string of better than average starting locations, too. A couple of real beauties.
Pre-PTW, good/bad starts always seemed to run in streaks of 8 or 10 in a row. I imagine PTW will do the same.
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"Illegitimi non carborundum"
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November 14, 2002, 09:53
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#14
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Chieftain
Local Time: 11:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 63
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One thing I've begun to do in regular CIV III (haven't bought PTW yet) is modify so you can irrigate without rivers (or any connection to water) beginning with construction. I'm not even sure when this normally kicks in but it usually shows up much later. This removes some of the disparity between the haves and have-nots early in the game.
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November 14, 2002, 21:15
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#15
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Prince
Local Time: 05:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 660
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That would work, lewsir, but the extra commerce early on is one of the keys to having a good start.
__________________
"If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.
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November 15, 2002, 04:28
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#16
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King
Local Time: 04:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Our house. In the middle of our street.
Posts: 1,495
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I've had some really awesome starts and some unbelievably cruddy ones.
The problem with "random" on computers is, there's not really any such thing.
Take Theseus' lead and restart if you are unhappy.
Personally, I've had so many rivers lately, I forgot how painful it is to have to build Aqueducts.
Better luck to ya'.
__________________
"Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos
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November 15, 2002, 04:53
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#17
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King
Local Time: 13:54
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tornio, Suomi Perkele!
Posts: 2,653
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I play with what I get. More crappier the start, more interesting/challenging the game.
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I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"
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