CD Protection - what ended up happening? - Page 3

CrONoS · November 20, 2002, 23:57

Every game designer, game producer, multimedia artist etc... play his first game on a pirated version of the game, i'm sure about 75% of them play his first game with a pirated version of the game...for me i remember my old Police Quest 4..with my 386 SX(no mathematical processos)25MHZ,4 meg Ram, 80 Meg of Hardisk... just old good times... but i try to buy good games, like Civilization, WarCraft, Medal of Honor,i've bought the whole Simcity series... but I understand game maker who want to stop the pirated games or software...when you create something ad it cost YOU a lot of money,you want people to bought your game...

But so, it can be a long long not useful debate... let's make another debatebut a constructive one... Israel and Palestinian....???
I'm kidding, please dont post about palestinian or israel, that can be very bad...

Have a nice day everyone!

LordCanar · November 21, 2002, 00:32

There are always the no-cd cracks, but thats illegal

LordCanar · November 21, 2002, 00:34

Awesome, man that brings back memories, police quest, kings quest, amnesia, zork, loved em all, but i was a kid, never learned anything about code till say the call to power days....

monkspider · November 21, 2002, 00:50

I love no-cd cracks, they keep my games from getting scratched up.

ixnay · November 21, 2002, 02:52

Because the game would start approximately 50% of the time I ran the program, I got a no-cd crack. It now loads quicker and without error.

Ming · November 21, 2002, 03:35

Come on ixnay... unless it is a crack ok'ed by the publishers...

Naughty boy...

I hope somebody isn't stupid enough to post a link to where it is available... because then it would be banning time

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 13:12

Yes... I'm going to keep a lookout for a better solution, but for the moment, the workaround for local LAN play seems to work ok.

Of course, the game is still buggy, and a better patch would be much appreciated. :-)

CrONoS · November 21, 2002, 14:14

about my edited sentence by Ming...
-======================-

I'm mad.. very mad....

, not so..(cause it's just a game discussion) but you censure my sentence about the one cd issue and LAN.... Is it really illegal... to take one CD and play a LAN game ? If yes..it's stupid, and it's no, dont censure my quote... but your the moderator... heheh

I dont want to check the user agreement... bah, i will check it now... it's write that i can have epilepsy, or momentary loss of consciousness... this not that... hehe
... some people may experience fatigue... yeah, with a 24 hours of civ3 game, it can cause fatigue, but it's not the thing i search...shitty it's only about physical illnes.. motion sickness statement or dont distribute, rent...

hey Ming, where is write I cannot play a LAN game with only one CD, not a copied one, not a hacked one,but with the original CD and play with my frienf. I just check my Lisence Agreement.

I dont care about that, since it's just a game,and the world will not be better if it's legal or not, but just want to know if it's really illegal.... and if you cant censure me, even if it's legal..

Tanx, so Have a Nice Day Everyone...
But in Greece it's not illegal to play video game???
I,ve read this one month ago in the news... Poor greece, no Civ3 at all...

November 21, 2002, 15:28

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

If I have a bus I can have many people ride with me, if I have a moped I can't, what does any of it have to do with software? I missed the analogy.
Several games have done things that made it easy to MP, that is there choice. I bought Stars and it came with two disk so you could play with friends, but they did not have to do that.
If you rent a car you are not allowed to let others drive it unless you pay for the right to do so.

Most PC games allow LAN games to be played by some limited number (usually 4) of PC's on the same network off of one valid CD. Since the main selling point of the PTW expansion is multiplayer, Infogrames should also allow a small number of players on a LAN per CD. On the internet it is perfectly acceptable to expect one copy per player, but for a home LAN with less than 4 computers I think it is ridiculous to force the consumer to buy the same product X times where X is the number of systems they own and X is less than 5. I definitely will not be buying PTW for this reason alone. I have 2 PC's that are networked and I refuse to buy 2 copies (of both the original game and expansion which will total over $100) to play a game against someone else in my own home. Internet play is the only way to use the multiplayer capability if you buy only one copy. Bad decision Infogrames/Firaxis.

JimMac · November 21, 2002, 15:55

Edited by Ming...

I guess some people still don't get it.

You aren't allowed to discuss ways to use the software illegally... it's that simple. Some people are just begging for a restriction.

November 21, 2002, 15:59

Another edit by ming.

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 17:09

And another edit by Ming...

The next time I have to edit in this thread, somebody is getting restricted.

If you don't like the rules here, you can find someplace else to post.

Ming · November 21, 2002, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
If yes..it's stupid, and it's no, dont censure my quote... but your the moderator... heheh

What you suggest is illegal.

Unless somebody from Firaxis posts here that it isn't, I will continue to edit illegal discussion from these forums, and next time... a restriction comes with it.

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 17:50

Alright then... let's here from Firaxis.

Of course, they're gonna have a hard time posting the answer if you keep editing out the question...

Perhaps there's someone that can e-mail them directly?

November 21, 2002, 18:00

Quote:

Originally posted by FNBrown
And another edit by Ming...

The next time I have to edit in this thread, somebody is getting restricted.

If you don't like the rules here, you can find someplace else to post.

Fine! By the way, nothing in my last post was illegal you just interprited that way. What a jerk!

Ming · November 21, 2002, 18:03

Quote:

Originally posted by number6
Fine! By the way, nothing in my last post was illegal you just interprited that way. What a jerk!

You can call me names for all I care... but your post included a quote that did have illegal discussion, so cram it

Again... If you don't like it... find some other site to post at, because here, if you don't follow the rules, you lose your choice...

Jon Shafer · November 21, 2002, 18:10

People, do you realize that this is a touchy issue here?

Anything even related to piracy/getting around the system/cracks/warez/what have you might get you the boot, so just let it rest, eh?

Adm.Naismith · November 21, 2002, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by ixnay37
Because the game would start approximately 50% of the time I ran the program, I got a no-cd crack. It now loads quicker and without error.

Well, this ring me a bell. I have similar start trouble, from time to time with my vanilla Civ III (1.29f patched).
I really prefer to avoid to mess things up with no-cd crack or esoteric way to backup a protected CD.

I suppose (but I'm not sure) that Infogrames should replace my ORIGINAL CD with a new one, if it stop to work at all, but living in Italy it'll be quite a trouble to send CD around hoping in a replacement...

So, the silly thing is that I'd had less trouble dancing with the skulls&bones of piracy than as a legit customer of Infogrames/Firaxis who payed the required amount of money

JimMac · November 21, 2002, 19:04

Damn! I went out to catch a film before waiting to see the replies to my question, and now I see that they have been Mingified so I have still no idea.

Still,- I now feel as if I have properly 'arrived' in Apolyton as I have now experienced my first ever mod-edited post.

Hopefully, I will not tread on anyones sensitivities in this post but I would like to make the following points,-
-I have been pc gaming for 20+ years,and since I dont throw my old games away I have well over a couple of hundred games in my spare room. Not one is a pirate or Illegal copy. And as I mentioned, I have ordered my copy of PTW
-What I asked, (which I will not repeat- dont worry Ming

),I do not believe to be in support of

Quote:

piracy/getting around the system/cracks/warez/

because I recall reading such a suggestion by the actual programmers on their website of their game-Majesty.
I would also be interested in Fraxis's opinion on the matter, but as FBrown noted the question keeps getting edited out!
PS Ming- Yes I do love the rules here. Gulp!

mentos · November 21, 2002, 19:05

So basically what I would like to know is... is there a legitimate way to spawn games for LAN play without having to try and convince 8-12 friends to buy a new game sight unseen?

Didnt Stracraft/Diablo have these features? I dont think it hurt thier sales any.

This isnt a call for piracy, this is a call for IG/Firaxis to allow us Civ Fans to be able to show our friends why we enjoy this game so much and help us expand the community.

That is the problem I face. I love Civ3, however those who have never been exposed to the Civ Series before arent likely to drop $80-90 to try out a game for one LAN game.

Ming · November 21, 2002, 19:11

Quote:

Originally posted by mentos
This isnt a call for piracy, this is a call for IG/Firaxis to allow us Civ Fans to be able to show our friends why we enjoy this game so much and help us expand the community.

Hopefully, they will see this (they usually are as touchy about piracy as we are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they follow this thread)

And even though I have edited it all out, they would have to be really stupid to not understand what the real question is

Maybe one of them can respond in this thread

mishad · November 22, 2002, 13:16

Quote:

Originally posted by ixnay37
Because the game would start approximately 50% of the time I ran the program, I got a no-cd crack. It now loads quicker and without error.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Come on ixnay... unless it is a crack ok'ed by the publishers...

Naughty boy...

While I respect 'poly's right to set rules for discussion, this is just silly. Using a no-cd crack to run a single copy of a legit copy of the game on a single computer is completely legal -- irrespective of whether or not the publishers "OK" it.

Even in the US, the DMCA does not remove users fair-use rights, and "letting me use the game I paid for" would almost certainly count as fair use.

Linking to such a crack is more troublesome, since a reasonable poster would expect that at least some readers might use the crack for copyright theft. The interaction of the DMCA and free speech has not been well tested. However, ixnay didn't provide a link, AFAICT.

BTW, the Forum rules don't explicitly ban discussion of/links to copy-protection avoidance. Nor is there a catch all "no illegal stuff". Since many posters are from outside the US you probably want an explicit:
"Nothing which would be illegal under {insert chosen jurisdiction here} law may be posted."

Misha

P.S. Yes, I know that Europe has its own DMCA equivalent on the way; the comments above will probably apply to more than just the US in the near future.

Ming · November 22, 2002, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by mishad
While I respect 'poly's right to set rules for discussion, this is just silly.

While it may seem silly to you... illegal use of gaming software is NOT considered silly by the owners of this site. And while it is true that some people who want to use the crack only want it to use software they legally own, the potential for abuse with the crack is great.

Granted, the posting FAQ can NOT cover every specific rule. It does however include a "use common sense" clause. Discussing illegal use of software falls in that area.

Plus, the owners and the mods have repeatedly stated that such discussion is not allowed. While someone might be able to claim the first time that they didn't know it was the rule... It's already been mentioned MULTIPLE times in this thread...

CiverDan · November 22, 2002, 17:29

IMHO, this thread should be locked if people wont stop suggesting how to commit illegal acts.

FNBrown · November 22, 2002, 18:09

Quote:

Originally posted by CiverDan
IMHO, this thread should be locked if people wont stop suggesting how to commit illegal acts.

I respectfully disagree. This thread needs to be left open and allowed to run its course, so that Firaxis might have some idea how potent the issue is amongst their constituent gamers.

Most people posting here own the game legally and are NOT trying to break the law.

CiverDan · November 22, 2002, 19:47

I agree that a thread should be left open if possible and I agree that most people here own the game legally. However, there comes a point where it leans too far off topic.

BTW, linking to copy-protection avoidance is illegal in US jurisdiction per DMCA. Remember when 2600 magazine lost their case in court, Others have already gotten in trouble for allowing this exact thing. Given the wide range of instances where companies have been willing to use the DMCA as a legal tool against others, some maybe justified, some probably not, I think Ming and the mods have every reason to err on the side of caution in relation to this issue. If something were allowed to be posted that drew someones attention to us in this manner, it might cause many further restrictions what we can and cannot discuss in this forum in the future.

p.s. I am sorry if a sound a bit like an admin, but we should be careful not to abuse our privilages here. I have seen other message boards where that has happened at the results are never pretty. (i.e entire topics being made off-limits, etc.)

Just my last two cents on this topic

WarpStorm · November 22, 2002, 20:11

Quote:

This thread needs to be left open and allowed to run its course, so that Firaxis might have some idea how potent the issue is amongst their constituent gamers.

It's out of Firaxis hands. Infogrames decided on the copy protection scheme. Unfortunately, I don't ever see them around here.

Wittlich · November 23, 2002, 01:17

that may be true Wardstorm, but I too have to agree with CiverDan, Firaxis (and possibly Inforgrams) need to be made aware of the multiple PTW copies for a PTW LAN game. It really doesn't effect me, since like I've already stated earlier, have bought 2 copies of the game - But I have to agree with the players who only have one copy. For an internal LAN game, it is just outrageous for people to buy a second game just to play PTW in the same household!

Firaxis/Infograms needs to address this to their loyal civililization community...and because of this, the tread needs to remain alive/active.

If Apolytoners insist on posting "illegal" ways around this on this thread, then Ming should start handing out Banishments - He has given MORE than enough notice already..

Tornado Rex · November 23, 2002, 02:56

Hi everyone. I'm new here just thought I'd jump in on the bandwagon.

First of all, Ming, I'm sorry if the following post is illegal, I'll try to word it as carefully as I can.

Edited by Ming... Sigh... yes, illegal. I personally have no problem with legal users making a back up for themselves in case of problems... but describing how you did it could lead people to do so for illegal uses

Some publishers have an "exceptable crack" which is available on their web site for legal owners.

Some even state publically that lan use is exceptable...

But until Firaxis does... it's illegal, and not open to discussion on this site.

That's just the way it is. And I'm leaving this open hoping that a representative from Firaxis will post and explain how their company views specific things in this gray area....

SpencerH · November 23, 2002, 16:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

Hopefully, they will see this (they usually are as touchy about piracy as we are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they follow this thread)

Maybe one of them can respond in this thread

I didnt immediately comment when I first saw this (although I really wanted to).

There are lots of issues with PtW (with more appearing as we try to play it, but I havent seen much from firaxis lately aside from the letter from MB. I doubt that this will be the first issue to be addressed.