November 16, 2002, 18:06
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#1
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: America
Posts: 136
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Manhattan Project as a Small Wonder not working??
I am playing a mod where I have set the Manhattan Project as a small wonder. I am not the first to build this because I aquired Uranium and Aluminum late in the game. I was shocked when I got a pop up that said we should build the MP, and then noticed on of my cities building an ICBM before the project is even complete... Has anyone else had this problem?
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November 16, 2002, 18:11
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#2
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: America
Posts: 136
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Screenshot:
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November 16, 2002, 19:47
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#3
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Prince
Local Time: 05:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
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I've never tried to mod it. Personally, I think the Manhattan Proj should be a great wonder. You can't keep technology in a lockbox. Once it's developed, it leaks out.
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November 16, 2002, 19:57
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#4
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Emperor
Local Time: 12:09
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If you made it a small wonder then it means that every civ can build it, so if someone has already built one then all civs can build nukes. You would have to alter the effects of this wonder also to prevent any nations from building nukes until they build there Manhatten Project.
Although I dont know whether that would be possible.
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November 16, 2002, 19:59
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#5
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Deity
Local Time: 07:09
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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Hum, I thought the whole idea was that making it a SW meant you had to make your own to get nukes?
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November 16, 2002, 20:37
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#6
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Prince
Local Time: 05:09
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Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
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Quote:
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Originally posted by vmxa1
Hum, I thought the whole idea was that making it a SW meant you had to make your own to get nukes?
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Yeah, it looks like that's what Unconquered is trying to do, but the effects of the ManProj are hardcoded so that as soon as someone builds it everyone gets nukes. If you change it to a small wonder, the other civs can build it but don't need to. There doesn't seem to be a way around that.
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November 16, 2002, 21:46
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#7
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Warlord
Local Time: 03:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: oregon
Posts: 109
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so what was the point of changing the MP to a small wonder if the effects are the same. seems to me like it must be a mistake ( i hope )
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November 16, 2002, 21:48
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#8
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King
Local Time: 06:09
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In one of the last chats Mike B said that he had it working correctly as a Small Wonder (but the screenshot belies that).
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November 17, 2002, 00:45
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#9
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Deity
Local Time: 07:09
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I wanted it to be a selection, not an editor deal anyway. I do not want to go to the editor. Just toogle it like respawn.
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November 17, 2002, 11:06
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: America
Posts: 136
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Firaxis must not be thinking, what in the hell is the point of changing the MP to a small wonder if when you build it everyone else can build nukes. I operates just like a Great Wonder in effects, but in name only it is a small wonder. This is the crap I am tired of in the gaming world and this shows that Firaxis is not concerned with attention to detail or playtesting. Obviously some programmer just thinks that he will allow the wonders to be toggled to small wonders and that'll fix everything... No testing, no thinking involved. Get the product out the door and get our money. There is no other logical conclusion. They even changed the flag name in the editor from all civs can build nukes to allows construction of nuclear weapons... This just adds to the deception.
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November 17, 2002, 11:11
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#11
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King
Local Time: 06:09
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Unconquered
Obviously some programmer just thinks that he will allow the wonders to be toggled to small wonders and that'll fix everything... No testing, no thinking involved
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I had a discussion with Mike B and he thought that he had this working properly, as in building it allows only your civ to build nukes. It did work properly at one time.
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November 17, 2002, 11:24
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#12
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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That was my understanding also. As I understood, all we had to do was change it to a small wonder and this would take care of everything necessary. If that is the case, that is what I did, and it is not working now. Something happened between testing and going gold I guess, which seems unlikely, more likely is it never worked properly or testing was done with the tester being the first to build MP. Did they do the test from other perspectives (like being the 2nd - Last) to build it. We may never know.
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November 17, 2002, 12:17
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#13
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King
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I just tested it a bunch of ways and I couldn't build an ICBM unless I had the MP even if everyone else did. Although I have to qualify this with the fact that I was using debug and a scenario that started in the Modern age. In a real game it may work different. (And there is the possibility that I screwed something up in my scenario)
Were you using a governor? Maybe the governor code wasn't made aware of the rules change.
EDIT: I can see that you were using the governor, maybe that is were the problem lies as I was doing my build orders by hand.
LATER EDIT: Further testing reveals a couple of more probs that I forwarded to Firaxis.
Last edited by WarpStorm; November 17, 2002 at 15:24.
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November 17, 2002, 18:19
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#14
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King
Local Time: 12:09
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Thanks for your efforts, Warpstorm. Manhattan Project as a (working) small wonder is, after all, very high on the wishlist of most modders.
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"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
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November 17, 2002, 18:52
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#15
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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Just curious, Warpstorm.. what are the other problems
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November 18, 2002, 01:15
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#16
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King
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Was the allow all civs to build nukes checked or unchecked before it was switched to a Small Wonder? I don't know if it would make a difference, but it might.
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November 18, 2002, 10:19
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#17
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Chieftain
Local Time: 11:09
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Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 30
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I thought the editor check said "Allows production of nukes", leaving it ambiguous if it was for all civs or just the builder.
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Over, under, around, or through
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November 18, 2002, 11:37
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#18
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:09
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Posts: 4,168
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"Allows Construction of Nuclear Devices" is what it says (just looked it up). It does not specify "All Civs."
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JB
I play BtS (3.19) -- Noble or Prince, Rome, marathon speed, huge hemispheres (2 of them), aggressive AI, no tech brokering. I enjoy the Hephmod Beyond mod. For all non-civ computer uses, including internet, I use a Mac.
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November 18, 2002, 16:58
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#19
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Emperor
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I had Manhattan Project set as a small wonder, with the "Allows Construction of Nuclear Devices" selected in the Editor. Similar to Unconquered's situation, I am now able to construct missiles while still building Manhattan (I just completed Space Flight in my game).
I do not yet know whether anyone else has built it already.
__________________
JB
I play BtS (3.19) -- Noble or Prince, Rome, marathon speed, huge hemispheres (2 of them), aggressive AI, no tech brokering. I enjoy the Hephmod Beyond mod. For all non-civ computer uses, including internet, I use a Mac.
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November 19, 2002, 21:53
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#20
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: America
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I did an espionage mission into the Russian capital and it shows they have build the MP... I guess the code/governor is buggy (like Warpstorm suggested)
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November 19, 2002, 22:44
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#21
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Deity
Local Time: 07:09
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Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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So it is a hit and miss deal? They may be able to make nukes with out the SW if that was enabled?
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November 19, 2002, 23:06
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#22
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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They built it first, but somehow the effects carried over to my civ even though I was still building it...
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November 20, 2002, 12:43
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#23
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Prince
Local Time: 06:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 682
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somebody needs to tell the boys at big F
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November 22, 2002, 21:19
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#24
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Prince
Local Time: 22:09
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of the Barbarians
Posts: 600
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Then there's the question of what should happen if the Manhatten Project is built, and later the city is captured. Would the civ that built it still get nukes or not even though they no longer have the wonder? Or would they have to build it again?
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None, Sedentary, Roving, Restless, Raging ... damn, is that all? Where's the "massive waves of barbarians that can wipe out your civilisation" setting?
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November 23, 2002, 13:24
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#25
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King
Local Time: 06:09
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Randolph
somebody needs to tell the boys at big F
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I've told them (and sent saves and bixes to show what happens).
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November 23, 2002, 18:30
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#26
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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What are the problems you found Warpstorm?
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November 23, 2002, 18:46
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#27
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King
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Some that can't be duplicated with 1.04
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November 23, 2002, 21:13
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#28
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:09
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Quote:
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Originally posted by WarpStorm
Some that can't be duplicated with 1.04
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... and some that CAN, I am sure.
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November 24, 2002, 00:59
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#29
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:09
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I understand you are bound by a NDA concerning future patches, but my question more specifically is, was the problems with the MP functioning as a small wonder in PTW 1.04 caused by a bug in the governor code or just a general coding error in 1.04... (see my first post for reference).
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November 27, 2002, 09:10
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#30
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King
Local Time: 07:09
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Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
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I didn't see a fix for this in the patch 1.14f list. Am I just missing something or do we have to keep waiting?
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