Strategy tips on moo1

Merak · November 20, 2002, 20:01

have only recently tryed the game and liked it but do you guys have some tips or links because i cant even beat the game in simple (fairly ridiculous i now) but then i am no good in these kind of games.

i am playing it until i get moo3.

_____________________________________________

when you wait for something good you can never wait for too long

vmxa1 · November 21, 2002, 04:17

Try a strong race such as the Klacs. Get your scouts out to see what is around you. You should have a planet within 3 parsec to your home world. If you have more than one take the best one or the one that is in the direction of your foes. If you have planets behind you they can wait till later as it will be a long time before anyone can get to them. Sit your scouts on the best planets and when any one show up attack them. If they are unarmed scouts they will leave. This can be done with colony ships if unarmed. This will at least delay them from getting it and hopefully you will be able to get it first. Once armed ships show up you will have to retreat. If the map is bigger than small then you will have time to expand for awhile. Klacs have lousy propulsion, so it may be a long time before you get any engines. I will avoid any of the changing of the tech, just put it all as equal, at the lower levels it should not matter. I like to put all I can spare into factories until I get around 65 of them, then start to up my pop so I can worked them. The larger the map the longer I can put off sending pop to a new planet in favor of making more colony ships. Once you get to all the planets you can colonize, send pop to them even if it just a few each turn. Went you make contact you will have to look at the map. If it is still open, you can get away with no attacks, if planets are getting hard to find, you will need to defend them. At some point I will send a large ship to protect the ones that may get troops sent to them. As new planets get up to speed use them to send pop. I like small maps on hard or impossible so it is a bit different as you are in conflict right away. Any how once it is time to worry about attacks, get missile bases started. I will build up to 10 on each until I see how things fall out. I may have to go up to 20 on the ones under duress. I will make a missile ship that has one 5 shot missile for those planets so they can be used to drive back attackers while the MB takes them down. Do not make any more ships then you have to until you are forced to. This occurs when you start to take over contested planets or attack those of others. I only make large ships. I only make a small number of each style so that I can scrap them for better designs as I go along. If you end up with 15 in a class, you will not want to scrap them as it will put a big hole in the fleet. On bigger maps you can scale back on the missile bases for planets well in the rear. Once war has been declared I start putting up spies on them to steal all the tech I can. It is late so I hope I was coherent during the rant. If you are having trouble, attach a save for the point you hit the wall.

nato · November 21, 2002, 05:37

Here is what I do, which I am sure is not optimal, but may give some ideas.

I look for a good planet to send the starting colony ship to with the scouts. When they find one, I send the colony ship. Then I transport about half of the population from my starting world to the new one, so that population is about even on both.

On turn 1, I set ecology to the minimum for clean, and set all the remaining production to technology. Then I go to the tech screen, and set it all to industry. I get Improved Industry 8 or 9. Once that is done, I set both worlds to all industry, and build factories until they have the maximum. This gives two strong planets.

Then comes expansion. I try to only build large colony ships, and try to avoid huge colony ships + extended fuel cells. To do this, I research propulsion to get ship range of 5 or 6. Large ships build MUCH faster than huge. If absolutely necesary I will build a huge extended fuel cells one, but I try not to.

Both planets build colony ships as fast as possible. If another race is nearby, they will spend one turn building cheap fighters to claim planets until I can get a colony ship there. I try to grab as much land as possible.

I send about 10 population from my 2 good planets to each new world, to help them get started. New worlds just build factories. I don't expect them to help for a long time.

During this time, all my 2 good planets make is colony ships. I only research fuel cells and, if necesary, planetology environments like tundra.

At some point, I make some more cheap fighter ships. This is to have enough fleet that the computer races won't attack me. I put this off as long as I can.

After all the planets near me have been taken, I stop colonizing and go for tech. My 2 first planets go all tech, and new planets go all industry. Once a new planet finishes factories, it goes to tech. Border planets make some missile bases.

I try to have enough bases and fleet to make the AI not want to attack me, but this is the time I get attacked a lot. This is the most dangerous part of the game. Sometimes the computer, especially the Klackons or Meklar, will have large powerful fleets attacking. It is hard to balance tech (what I want to get) versus defense (an expense I don't want, but need to survive).

The first techs I get are infrastructure techs, especially factory controls (computers) and terraforming (planetology). Investing is good. Then I get weapons, armor, and force field techs.

Then it is time to attack, and get revenge on my evil neighbors. Building a fleet, there are two main ways to go: big stacks of 1000s of small ships, and small stacks
of a 10s of huge ships. I like to have some of both. Also, a stack killing weapon, like black hole generator, is important to have to kill the computer's 1000+ stacks.

For ground combat, I have several nearby planets send troops to the target planet, all arriving at the same time. Then I have planets in the rear send population to those border planets, to replenish the troops.

After taking out 2 or 3 enemies, the game is clearly won.

So in general, I go:
1. Expand / Land Grab
2. Tech and Infrastructure
3. Build Fleet and Attack

This is a typical strategy that works against AIs in lots of types of games. Attacking is more difficult for an AI to do (though they usually aren't great at defense either).

The other major way to play games is to constantly attack, from first contact to the end, with only a minimum infrastructure and tech. That is pretty much the ONLY way to play in multi player RTSs, for instance. I don't enjoy it for 4X games though.

If you like long, epic, but sometimes slow games, go the infrastructure route. If you like fast, exciting, but sometimes shallow games, go the rush route.

Merak · November 21, 2002, 08:56

thank you guys will try that

vmxa1 · November 21, 2002, 14:02

Nato, if you play on hard or impossible, it can be in you best interest to have them attacking you once the planets are all taken. Well at least on a small map. On a large map, there is no need to get all of the planets. I like to get to the point where all the planets are colonized, ususally tundra or better, not toxic and radiated, have a bunch of bases and let them send in fleets for me to whack. I do this until I get a fleet that can hold a new planet. Once a planet has been busted by someone, I swoop in and grab it and hold on till it can take care of itself. Next stage is to get enough shipping to bust the step child races. Usually 2 races got the short end of the stick and have only the HW. It will be weak as they have no tech. I will jump one and built it up. By this time I have maybe 9 or 10 planets and can do what ever I want. I rarely make peace as I want them to spend money on ships that they will send in for slaughter. Once I get HEF it is time to bust the top dog (next to me). I do not bother with black hole as it is not required and I would prefer to have battle scanner, stabilizer and HEF. Those fleets of little ships get busted by stacks of large ships with HEF and auto guass or what ever repeat fire beam I have at the time.

nato · November 21, 2002, 21:33

Well that is some different ways than I have looked at it. I'm always happy to see the veteran approach.

He asked for simple strategies; I think the old turtle style is the easiest, safest way to learn and play. Of course turtle = CERTAIN DOOM against human players (in RTS at least), so for MP its probably not a good habit to get into.

I find that a lot of the toxic / dead worlds are often the rich and ultra rich ones, so I want them. You're right though, most of the toxic and dead planets can probably be passed up. They probably are not worth the tech expense early on, when everything is so vital.

Quote:

I rarely make peace as I want them to spend money on ships that they will send in for slaughter.

Thats clever, and totally different from me. I try very hard to keep peace early and mid game. I count on my diplomats to keep things safe until the fleet is ready. I often have desperate trouble defending from large stack attacks. You must do a much better job at getting early missile bases and fleet than I do.

You don't get the black hole generator?! Wow, that is my most vital weapon. Its the centerpeice of my anti stack ships. HEF is really enough for you vs the 32,000 ship stacks? Or maybe your "bleed them try on my defenses continuously" strategy stops them from building up so far?

vmxa1 · November 21, 2002, 21:50

Well I have had my share of squeezes at times, but usually if they sent in 4 stacks and one has 32K and 1 or 2 has a few thousand (alks often), I have at least 3 or more stacks of large ships with from a few to up to 10-15. Fifteen is my upper limit normally. This goes something like this: I go first and move up if I am going to engage with ships. I can't reach them. I launch missile bases with scatterpacks if I have them. They move up and take a direct fire when they get in range of the HEF. I move back and fire and launch missiles. I will have one or more small missile boats and shot at the most dangerous stack. That stack will retreat normally. The rest move up and we do it again. I drive them back and wipe them out. I do this with out using my ships normally, but once I get HEF I hate to let them retreat any ships. I have not make Black Hole in years, even on impossible.

vmxa1 · November 21, 2002, 21:57

In the early going they send fleets that are often weak. I will have one missile ship (5 shots) and use it to intice them to stay while the bases pound them. The missile ship is used to force their stacks to back up when they get too close. At different stages you get to whack them all with no return fire and then it will have some close calls and then they will manage to kill my missile boat(s). As long as I have enough bases and shielding, I am good to go. I need to watch out for bio warfare until I have an antidote of course. This tactic lets me grow while making them spend resources on ships that are going to be lost. during the close call phase I often go ith 2 or even 3 types of missileboats. This is required as their ships move faster across the map. I need to have the ability to drive off 2 or three stacks at a time. This phase will usually cost me at least one ship and sometimes all of them. This is why I only keep one of each type at any planet, more will not accomplish anything (except on rare occasions).

nato · November 21, 2002, 22:00

Wow thats cool. Amazing to me, I totally rely on the BHG.

Not to badger you, but from your post I have one more question. You say you have your missile bases use scatter packs. I have tried this. When I have 5 pack selected, the missiles fly up to the target, and then seem to do absolutely NOTHING. Is there something about scatter pack I am missing? Do they actually work?

Also, about scatter packs. What are they for? Is it correct that scatter are for use against large stacks of little ships, and normal missiles are for use against big ships? Do scatter packs on ships work any better than missile base ones?

Sorry for the questions, but scatter packs are kind of a mystery to me.

vmxa1 · November 21, 2002, 22:03

HEF is my main trigger for going on the attack. Black hole is normally too late for me anyway, I have the game in hand. Remember I am mainly talking about small maps. Huge maps are another story. It will take forever to conquer all those planets and if you do not want to vote, you will encounter shielded planets and need bombs, maulers or black hole. If I go black hole, I will start making huge ships. Note I did not mention death ray as I never go for orion until I am ready to kill the last race.

bakalov · November 22, 2002, 03:44

I played MOO 1 a looong time ago - I remember once the AI having a fleet of two 32K stacks of Large ships ....

I had no other choice than going to Orion for the black holes .... I made 7 different designs of ships with black hole and built 1 ship from each. And with my 7 ship fleet the threat was reduced to no threat in no time :-)))

vmxa1 · November 22, 2002, 04:16

I could see a problem if those ships have a high movement. If they could get in range in the second round. That should not happen as you should chop them down much earlier in the game. If they only have 1-2 movement they are toast to the tactics I mentioned. They just can not get into firing range and will be eaten alive by Auto Blaster, Autogauss or Pulse Phasors as they firemultiple time each round and theHEF lets you shoot them from out of their range. what you talked about could happen in a larger map. In that game, I would look for their fleets and run them down before they could get strong. Not try for the planet just the fleet. In a big map I would jump the staging area and smash the fleet and run before the planets missile could hit.

Urban Ranger · November 28, 2002, 05:55

vmxa1,

You are great, I like your posts. Could you make it easier on me by breaking them into paragraphs? Thanks.

Urban Ranger · November 28, 2002, 06:05

I pretty much concur with vmxa1 with regards to starting strategy except for one thing. When you play the Klacs pour everything into environment to get a bonus growth. Put the excesses (like you aren't getting +3 no matter how much production you dump into environment, say, then scale it back until you just get a +2) into building ships - first scouts, then colony ships.

Why? The Klacs produces double production with out factories, this is what other races will get with factories. So each Klac population point is the same as a factory with the additional bonus that you don't need to spend to clean up the gunk.

Once I get about 3 planets with decent sized population going I'd start converting the home planet to research. I will only build factories after I receive Robotic Controls III (hopefully).

Weapon wise, the Neutron Pellet Gun is great. It comes early, which means it gets shrinked quickly. It has armour piercing, so you can use it for awhile against the computer players. A large number of NPG can do a lot of damage.

As a Klac I tend to spend the most funds researching populsion (because I suck at that) and planetology (because you want to colonise all those interesting ultra rich planets).

vmxa1 · November 28, 2002, 15:05

Urban Ranger thanks I will try to remember.
I use to use the technic you mentioned, where I would change the amount of science into planet improvements to get the pop boost and habitability tech.
Faster construction and computers to get the factory boost and better miniturization and cheaper factories. This is a good strategy. I stopped, only because I just did not need it, not because it was a bad idea.
If you do boost computer research then it may be valid to put money into factories before environment. It is true that the Klacs boost makes pop equal to factories for others, but the robotic improvements will make that a moot point.
So if you are going to get Robotics 3 go for factories, if not go for pop on the first few planets. After that always go for facories. I did not point this out as I did not want to dump too much on anyone new at one time.

I won't say I never build scout ships, but it is so rare. This is because I like small universes and they just are not required. On a larger map, I may do so, it would depend on what I though of the situation. Scouts are not going to hold off anyone for long as they will show up with arm fighters and even armed colony ships soon at Hard and Impossible.

The Klacs traits has them as poor researchers for propulsion. This can be painful, but not fatal. Since I play in a small uni most of the time, it does not hurt me. Only about 22-23 planets in the universe any way. I just need 4 for a long time, until I am ready to attack.

Gilgamensch · December 6, 2002, 03:24

One thing about the stacks:

What I normally do, to get rid of those stacks, is using a 'little' bug.

As I don't upgrade always my colony-ship, I put one with 'each' fleet, this fleet is using HEF and Repulsor-beam(?). The small ships have really a gun with range 2, so they try to get in (onto the col-ship) get moved back by the repulsor and you get again a free shot. You just have to make sure, that nobody can reach your col-ship (should have repulsor as well). The AI always seems to go for the old-design, if it can't hurt the 'monsters'.

Same by the way for MB. They first go for the fleet and then for the planet, only exception being the biological weapons.

And Yes, Auto-whatever is the first choice for HEF. A nice extra is also the sub-space-teleporter as you could 'downgrade' your engine to 1, it gives you always the first move (initiative) and you can jump across the map.

Those strats are actually more for the end-game.

For the beginning, it is really expand as quickly as possible and again towards the enemy.

I actually like to play with the Psilons, even as they aren't so good at fighting. But I like winning through tech more. They give you a damned hard time in the beginning, but if you are left alone for a while........

The Bulrathis are also a nice choice: what's in your way, conquer.

Another thing, if you have a weak race next to you, don't destroy them completly as you still can 'use' them for research. Just destroy there fleets and keep spying on them. OK if they are to far back, get rid of them.

Another feature, which is quite useful and I think not documented is F8/F9, shows you your planets under attack. This I am missing in MoO2

, sorry for being 'off'-topic........

vmxa1 · December 6, 2002, 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch

And Yes, Auto-whatever is the first choice for HEF. A nice extra is also the sub-space-teleporter as you could 'downgrade' your engine to 1, it gives you always the first move (initiative) and you can jump across the map.

Watch out using the nuclear engine or what ever low level one you have combined with the subspace teleporter. If you run into a planet with sub space interdictor you will revert to the engine speed.
I never use teleporters after I had this run in, years ago. You just do not need them and I would rather have more guns. Besides, I often do not have that tech.

Gilgamensch · December 13, 2002, 04:35

vmxa1,

that's correct. Also kind of contra-design is using sub and cloakind-device, the repulsor isn't reacting to cloaked ships.
OK for the sub space indicator (too long) is blocking it. But for this I use the spying function. But the thing is that the teleporter is having less weight than the engines, so you could pack far more weapons on.....

Urban Ranger · December 13, 2002, 13:03

The Klacs is probably the best race. I am not any good with the Sakkras so Psilon is next one. The Bulrathis aren't bad, but their bonus is kinda useless except in ground combat, so that means it won't be useful most of the time.

Gilgamensch · December 13, 2002, 20:08

Bulrathis and not good????

As you can 'easily' invade any planet, you can keep up in research via conquering. But it only works for a real agressive strategie. It's not so much about destroying, just take part by part. They got new tech, go in capture and learn. It is kind of different thinking, no 'builder'-strat at all. Klackons are 'similar', you just win the batte's more in space than on ground.

Psilons, you need a peacefull time to strengthen your tech. It depends a lot on your starting position. If you have the wrong race in the wrong slot, you are doomed...............

Worst AI-opponent is for me the Human, if you don't keep him small he wins by charm

vmxa1 · December 13, 2002, 22:39

True, the Humans can be voted in if you are not careful.

Gilgamensch · December 14, 2002, 03:58

Whenever I find the humans, I try to keep them small. If you don't they 'charm' the rest into voting for them.

The other races are not so much of a problem (for the voting) as they don't get so much support. Their enemies are not voting for them (normally) it changes a bit on impossible.

But one thing is really, best is to start in a corner, not directly, but close, less frontiers.......

Urban Ranger · December 16, 2002, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Bulrathis and not good????

As you can 'easily' invade any planet, you can keep up in research via conquering. But it only works for a real agressive strategie. It's not so much about destroying, just take part by part. They got new tech, go in capture and learn. It is kind of different thinking, no 'builder'-strat at all. Klackons are 'similar', you just win the batte's more in space than on ground.

Not exactly - you can only do that after you beat the defenses, which would be hard if you aren't up to par with tech. If I want to steal tech, Darloks are far better.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Psilons, you need a peacefull time to strengthen your tech. It depends a lot on your starting position. If you have the wrong race in the wrong slot, you are doomed...............

That's true, but holds for every race no matter which one you use.

One game I started as the Klacs and found an ultra-rich Terran planet with max 110 pop. Needless to say I had the game in the game by turn 2.

Gilgamensch · December 16, 2002, 12:37

Early in the game you can easily 'bypass' the defence. So long there isn't a shield, most/all of your transports will land on the planet and start fighting. The AI has normally not a good enough fleet to detroy it's own ex-colonie, so you might be able to keep it. Thanks to th efact that you conquered a planet with industry and getting there tech, you 'don't care' about the possible loss of population. Also you weakened his ability to produce and research. Helps quite well.

Never happened to me

My Ultra's are normally toxic/radioactive........... so for late game......

vmxa1 · December 16, 2002, 14:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Early in the game you can easily 'bypass' the defence. So long there isn't a shield, most/all of your transports will land on the planet and start fighting. The AI has normally not a good enough fleet to detroy it's own ex-colonie, so you might be able to keep it. Thanks to th efact that you conquered a planet with industry and getting there tech, you 'don't care' about the possible loss of population. Also you weakened his ability to produce and research. Helps quite well.

Never happened to me

My Ultra's are normally toxic/radioactive........... so for late game......

What type of game and at what point are we talking about here?
Early in the game if you are close enough to sent troops then you can take the planet, but will not hold it in many cases. I mean, early contact means a small map to me or a strange draw.
So if no shields (as would be the case early) and if we are tlaking about a fairly new colony, other wise if it is fully populated, they will start getting missile bases.
You can take it, but the AI always has more ships than me until I am on the rampage to finish the game. This means they can send ships and I can not. I will be playing hard or impossible so they wil be ahead of me early in the game. I will not be making any ships until I am forced to, that will be when an attack is coming or I feel I need one large ship to hold a new planet.
I will not be taking a fully develop planet for a long time. The AI will be sending troops to that planet right away, so I will be hard press to hold it even if they do not send ships. Often I look at a planet that is being colonized and has say 20 out of 70 pop. I sent troops to it and they have already sent more troops, usually large numbers 40-60. Since I am behind in tech, I am not likely to stop them. This is what I see in most games.

Yolky · December 25, 2002, 00:36

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Wow thats cool. Amazing to me, I totally rely on the BHG.

Not to badger you, but from your post I have one more question. You say you have your missile bases use scatter packs. I have tried this. When I have 5 pack selected, the missiles fly up to the target, and then seem to do absolutely NOTHING. Is there something about scatter pack I am missing? Do they actually work?

Also, about scatter packs. What are they for? Is it correct that scatter are for use against large stacks of little ships, and normal missiles are for use against big ships? Do scatter packs on ships work any better than missile base ones?

Sorry for the questions, but scatter packs are kind of a mystery to me.

Scatter pach missles are regulare missles but X4 if I remeber correctly. I use them all the time.

Who were you shooting the missles at? you have to remeber to scan there ship and see what there missle defence is. If it is higher than your missiles they won't do squat. They can also have anti-missle rack, lightning shield generator etc.

hope this helps.

Davor

Urban Ranger · December 25, 2002, 05:18

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
When I have 5 pack selected, the missiles fly up to the target, and then seem to do absolutely NOTHING. Is there something about scatter pack I am missing? Do they actually work?

They do work, but a couple of things. Don't confuse Scatter Pack V with Hyper Rocket V.

Second thing is, when missile scatters the warheads are weaker. They can do more damage depending on the defenses (shields, ECM, etc.) of the enemy ships. If the scatter packs do nothing, switch to regular missiles to punch through defenses.

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Also, about scatter packs. What are they for? Is it correct that scatter are for use against large stacks of little ships, and normal missiles are for use against big ships? Do scatter packs on ships work any better than missile base ones?

Scatter packs do more damge in total but don't go through defenses as well because the warheads are lesser missiles.

vmxa1 · December 25, 2002, 15:35

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Wow thats cool. Amazing to me, I totally rely on the BHG.

Not to badger you, but from your post I have one more question. You say you have your missile bases use scatter packs. I have tried this. When I have 5 pack selected, the missiles fly up to the target, and then seem to do absolutely NOTHING. Is there something about scatter pack I am missing? Do they actually work?

Also, about scatter packs. What are they for? Is it correct that scatter are for use against large stacks of little ships, and normal missiles are for use against big ships? Do scatter packs on ships work any better than missile base ones?

Sorry for the questions, but scatter packs are kind of a mystery to me.

I must have missed this some how. Anyway this has been covered now by others, but he is my perspective.
5 packs, what are we really talking about here? Hyper rocket V? Missiles that have 5 shot packs? Scatter Pack 5?
Scatter Pack 5 is a mirved Hyper missile with 5 warheads. When I first get it, it will chew up the ships at that time, but is slow. Once they get move 3 ships they are less useful. I may use missiles on the missile bases then. It depends on what they sent and what missiles I have. If I have only Hyper X, then I am forced to use the scatter packs anyway. If I have Stingers, then I will use them.
Scatter Pack VII are mivered Hyper X missile (IIRC) and have 7 war heads. This are very good for a long time. Later very fast ships can avoid them for a time, but they will do damage. At this stage, it will be hard for me to destroy their attacking ships as they will retreat, IF I have superior shields. If not I may be in trouble.
Scatter Pack X is so late as to not really be a factor, but they are going to really hurt. They are mirved 10 war heads that are stingers. So it is 10 stingers for each missile the base has to shoot. At this stage ships will attack the planet and see what you have and retreat immediately most of the time. In that case the only missles that may get in a hit are Zeon and they usually will not reach in time. You will need ships to get them or to act as decoys.
Missile bases missiles will not fail to reach their target and hence will not disappear. This makes me think you are talking about missiles launched from ships. If so then of course the attackers can back up and get out of the range of missiles that are not capable of reaching the other side of the map.
This may or may not be what you want to have happen.
If a decoy ship all I want is for them to back up so the MB can get in another round. If I have large ships on scene I may want some of the attackers to back up to give my large ships another round with out taking damage form that fleet.
I do not use missile ships to do damage, only to back up attackers. This is why I only give them 1 slot ith missles.

nato · December 31, 2002, 10:29

I just want to say a quick, belated thanks for all the answers on scatter packs. There was a lot there I didn't know about them.

Yolky · December 31, 2002, 15:09

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
I just want to say a quick, belated thanks for all the answers on scatter packs. There was a lot there I didn't know about them.

Glad to help out if I did at all

Davor