Leo's Workshop Q...

DaveV · January 3, 2001, 14:29

Leo's will upgrade a unit to a corresponding unit enabled by the tech that obsoletes it. Since riflemen never become obsolete, they never upgrade. If you really want them to upgrade to alpines, change your rules.txt so riflemen become obsolete with tactics (I think this will work, but no guarantee).

There is a PBEM hack for 2.42, but you'll have a very hard time finding anyone to play it with you. MGE is cheap and works a lot better for MP.

Sieve Too · January 3, 2001, 18:48

Besides a unit becoming obsolete, I believe a unit will only upgrade to a new unit if the two units are of the same type. By type I mean same role and same attributes. Thus, a Galleon will upgrade to a Transport and an Ironclad will upgrade to a Destroyer but a Frigate won't upgrade to anything even after it goes obsolete since there are no modern units with the Sea-superiority role that also have the Can-carry-units flag set. That being said, there might be some special cases like the Pikeman upgrades.

I'm pretty sure there are other restrictions too based on movement, hitpoints and A/D strength but I am not sure.

suas333 · January 4, 2001, 01:18

yes all correct in that it only replaces obsolete units. Leo's is especially useful at sea where your trimenes will eventually become galleons and i believe transports. Ironclads can become Destoyers with leo's as well. You already probably realized that settlers are upgraded into engineers. Of course knights and Dragoons will upgrade to calvary enentually.

So in order for Leo's to be useless you would already have to have exposives, electricy, tactics.. etc. fairly modern technologies.

fluxcapacitor · January 4, 2001, 01:54

I always build Leo's Workshop as quick as possible. But after conscription [i.e. riflemen units], it DOESN'T upgrade any more units. I know automobile cancels it, but I've gotten marines, alpines troops, and others before discovering automobile, and these units are far better than riflemen, so why is it not upgrading? No other Civs have automobile either, so anyone know what's up???

P.S. Is there an MP patch for v. 2.42? Or do I have to buy MP Gold?

Rufus T. Firefly · January 4, 2001, 04:55

So, in other words, there are five or six "terminal" technologies, technologies beyond which Leo's is useless: conscription (for riflemen), tactics (for cavalry), industrialization (for transports), machine tools (for artillery), explosives (for engineers), and whatever gives you destroyers (I don't have the tech tree in front of me). Once you have those, you can make a beeline for the automobile yourself; Leo's is the only expiring wonder that I tend to build and then cancel myself, before the AI does.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder
[This message has been edited by Rufus T. Firefly (edited January 04, 2001).]

Ken Hinds · January 4, 2001, 06:10

Don't forget that you want espionage before you get automobile so that dips become spies.

Ken

Laertes · January 4, 2001, 06:13

I seem to remember diplos getting upgraded with espionage, and cannons getting upgraded with machine tools, on occasions when I deliberately got Automobile late. I cold be wrong, but I think it worked for me.

Sieve Too · January 4, 2001, 12:59

One reason to keep Leo around after it has already upgraded all your units is for upgrading AI units that you bribe at a later time.

Another reason not to head to Automobile fast is that it is one of those techs that increases pollution in every city. Once I do get Automobile, I make a quick dash to Mass Transit.

suas333 · January 7, 2001, 19:27

I don't think that bribed units are upgraded by Leo's. Are you sure?

Jim W · January 7, 2001, 20:16

quote:

Originally posted by suas333 on 01-07-2001 06:27 PM
I don't think that bribed units are upgraded by Leo's. Are you sure?

They are, but it doesn't happen immediately. I'm not certain, but I think it happens as soon as you develop whatever technology you're presently researching, whether or not that technology has anything to do with the capability of the unit.

For instance, if you're researching sanitation, and all your Infantry units are musketeers, a bribed legion will become a musketeer as soon as you've discovered sanitation.

Jim W

Scouse Gits · January 7, 2001, 21:19

Bribed units (like others) are upgraded by LW when you gain your next tech advance. However, the upgrade does go in stages. If you bribe a city with a horseman it goes as follows:
1st Horse to Knight
2nd Knight to Dragoon
3rd Dragoon to Cavalry - assuming you have researched Tactics!

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SG (2)

Exile · January 8, 2001, 04:57

Yes, catapults will upgrade to cannons, which will upgrade to artillery. Done it many times.

Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

niteowl · January 17, 2001, 19:03

I too always make a beeline for Invention to get Leo's and I do everything in my power to slow down development of Automobile (which to be quite honest isn't much unless I am way ahead in the tech race and I simply don't research it myself).

I may have to look into changing the rules.txt to allow upgrade of Riflemen. (The are kinda useless when compared to marines or alpine troops.)

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[This message has been edited by niteowl (edited January 17, 2001).]

SandMonkey · January 17, 2001, 22:32

I don't know it getting Auto. quickly is such a bad thing... as long as you had your whole army built, and you get it upgraded with the necessary techs, then thereis no reason to hold off too long. I persoanlly like getting Auto for the superhighways.

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 17, 2001, 23:39

Like everyone else says, Leos will upgrade everything you have, but I think it only upgrades all the way (for example, warriors right up to musketeers) in one turn when you first build it. After that, I find that it will only upgrade when you discover a new tech (not necessarily the tech that allows the unit upgraded to), and then, sometimes (I'm not sure when), it will only upgrade one step at a time. For example, pikemen to muskeeteer and only on the next advance do the new musketeers become riflemen.

I used to swear by Leos and I still like to get it, but you do wind up losing vet status in an upgrade... sucks when you have vet knights or crusaders and they become non-vet dragoons.

The big reason I still build it is the settler to engineer upgrade

And I'm not sure about anyone else, but I find getting Automobile can sometimes let me delay getting Flight for a few turns (keeping the Colossus going). Great to have the Colossus *and* Research Lab going in the SSC.

STYOM

JimH · January 18, 2001, 17:17

quote:

Originally posted by SandMonkey on 01-17-2001 09:32 PM
I don't know it getting Auto. quickly is such a bad thing... as long as you had your whole army built, and you get it upgraded with the necessary techs, then thereis no reason to hold off too long. I persoanlly like getting Auto for the superhighways.

One word: Battleship

Scouse Gits · January 18, 2001, 17:55

Two words: Vet Battleship.

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SG(2)

Julius Brenzaida · January 19, 2001, 08:31

Three words : Vet Battleship, foreign coastal cities.
(oups, it makes 5 and now 9, no 12, no ...)

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

ChrisShaffer · January 20, 2001, 22:47

I hardly ever build Leo's. It's usually just as easy to build new veteran units and disband the old units. I *hate* having my units lose veteran status when Leo's upgrades them.

January 22, 2001, 06:03

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisShaffer on 01-20-2001 09:47 PM
I hardly ever build Leo's. It's usually just as easy to build new veteran units and disband the old units. I *hate* having my units lose veteran status when Leo's upgrades them.

Well, if I'm playing world conquest I love to build both Leo's and Sun's . Then I train my new Leo upgraded troops by attacking an enemy settler/dip/horse/catapult/cannon etc. low-defence units to get it vet immediately. I also attack a city with strong vet units and then finish off the rest defenders with my unvet troops

[This message has been edited by Marko_Polo (edited January 22, 2001).]

Caesar the Glutton · January 24, 2001, 12:53

I always try to get to Invention ASAP. Losing veteran status b/c of LW sucks, but as Caesar, Comrade of the Roman Empire, I'm willing to send wave after wave of my men to their death to achieve my ultimate goal…..World Domination.

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Nam si violandum est ius, regnandi gratia violandum est: aliis rebus pietatem colas