Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

Andemagne · December 11, 2002, 12:11

Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?
well, what do you think? yes, no, something else. and why?

I myself personally think that no. 'cos it would be against the basic ideas of EU, that are 'Union of European Nations' and 'Prosperity in Unity'. turkey is not a european nation and its too different, too poor and turkey is a muslim nation.

orange · December 11, 2002, 12:15

i don't see what religion has to do with it. I say yes...free trade and economic unity should eventually grow to a global scale...and Turkey is European just as Russia is...the majority of the country might not be in Europe but their interests mainly lie in Europe.

MikeH · December 11, 2002, 12:15

No, and neither should Christmas Pudding.

DinoDoc · December 11, 2002, 12:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Andemagne
its too different, too poor and turkey is a muslim nation.

1) Why was Greece let in then?

2) Do you really want to create a stereotype that the EU is nothing more than a community of Christian nations?

Boris Godunov · December 11, 2002, 12:17

Not until they bring their human and civil rights records into alignment with the EU's principles.

And yeah, frankly, if they will be a drag on the EU economy, then there is no reason to do so.

Saint Marcus · December 11, 2002, 12:19

No. Turkey is underdeveloped, has a poor human rights record, and is fundamentally non-European.

And I'm even more against it, since Turkey demands that it should be allowed to join. From where I'm standing, they are in no position to demand anything. This is our union, we chose who we want in. If we let any nation in, they should be grateful, not the other way around. And certainly not an underdeveloped nation like Turkey.

I also don't understand why the US is so pushing for Turkey to join the EU. It's our union, they should mind their own business. It's none of Washington's concerns who we chose to join our union.

DinoDoc · December 11, 2002, 12:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And yeah, frankly, if they will be a drag on the EU economy, then there is no reason to do so.

Should they kick Germany out?

Saint Marcus · December 11, 2002, 12:21

Quote:

2) Do you really want to create a stereotype that the EU is nothing more than a community of Christian nations?

Bosnia will join eventually. Perhaps Albania too. The difference between them and Turkey is that they at least are European in culture.

Also, Christianity is dieing in Europe.

Boris Godunov · December 11, 2002, 12:24

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Should they kick Germany out?

Should the U.S kick out Mississippi?

As much as I'd like to, being already in the group (not to mention a founding member) is different from a new admission.

And Germany is hardly as underdeveloped as Turkey. Apples and oranges.

Solly · December 11, 2002, 12:29

Allowed to join the EU in its current state? No.

If the EU were reformed enough so that absorbing many different economies ought not to pose a problem, then I don't see a reason why not as its human rights record is vastly improving.

DinoDoc · December 11, 2002, 12:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
The difference between them and Turkey is that they at least are European in culture.

Also, Christianity is dieing in Europe.

How is any of this relevent?

Saint Marcus · December 11, 2002, 12:44

Quote:

How is any of this relevent?

It is an European Union, after all. Do you consider Turkey to be a European nation, in culture and geography?

Solly · December 11, 2002, 12:47

Partly, yes.

DinoDoc · December 11, 2002, 12:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Do you consider Turkey to be a European nation, in culture and geography?

Yes, I do. It at the very least has a better claim than Russia at being European, IMO.

chequita guevara · December 11, 2002, 12:47

Yes, but they have to get their act together first.

Boris Godunov · December 11, 2002, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Yes, I do. It at the very least has a better claim than Russia at being European, IMO.

Russia has a far higher percentage of its population actually in Europe than Turkey does, has a far larger European land mass, and is more culturally similar to Europe than Turkey is by a large degree.

Sprayber · December 11, 2002, 12:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
No. Turkey is underdeveloped, has a poor human rights record, and is fundamentally non-European.

And I'm even more against it, since Turkey demands that it should be allowed to join. From where I'm standing, they are in no position to demand anything. This is our union, we chose who we want in. If we let any nation in, they should be grateful, not the other way around. And certainly not an underdeveloped nation like Turkey.

Does anyone else see in this statement the dripping bias against anything not European? With attitudes like this the EU will become just another excuse for Europe to push their supposed superiority over the rest of the world. It's the same old thing that has gone down for centuries. Your sounding like a superpower wanna be.

Dauphin · December 11, 2002, 13:00

If Turkey applied for and demanded accession to the USA, would you think such a response acceptable?

DaShi · December 11, 2002, 13:01

The US wants to join the EU eventually.

chequita guevara · December 11, 2002, 13:02

Anyway, Turkey has a very European culture. Heck, the whole Young Turk movement was to modernize and Europeanize the Ottoman Empire, which they've done very well.

The reason Europe doesn't want them is there are too many Turks, who they fear would be able to move and live anywhere in the EU, taking good jobs at lower pay from decent Christian white folks (never mind that Turks are white).

Harovan · December 11, 2002, 13:05

I don't see why the US should have a vote on Turkey joining the EU or not. If they want, they can make it the 51th of their states. But wait, that's already Israel. The true reason why the USA presses the EU to take Turkey is, because Turkey is threatening to leave the NATO otherwise. And the USA needs Turkey as a reliable air base to keep a hold of the Middle East. Incirlik, anyone?

The answer should be "not yet", for economical and human rights reasons, as mentioned. And they have to change their attitude from "We demand" to "Could we please". But there's no such an option. So "no" remains my choice.

As for the comparison of the economies of Turkey and Germany, yea, it's true. Turkeys economy is far superior. Hundred thousands of German workers already went to Turkey for jobs.

Sprayber · December 11, 2002, 13:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
If Turkey applied for and demanded accession to the USA, would you think such a response acceptable?

Perhaps if you asked if say Mexico or some small central American country asked to join the US. Otherwise it sounds kind of silly to compare Turkey joining the US and Turkey joining the EU.

Boris Godunov · December 11, 2002, 13:09

Geographic proximity is more and more meaningless, Sprayber. After all, Turkey has closer ties to the US than Europe and is more firmly under the influence of the US than any other country in the world. It would make as much sense for them to demand the US that they join us.

Sprayber · December 11, 2002, 13:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I don't see why the US should have a vote on Turkey joining the EU or not. If they want, they can make it the 51th of their states.

Unless I have missed a major development, the US doesn't have a vote in the EU. We can express our desires but in the end it will be up to the Euros to keep those Turks out.

HershOstropoler · December 11, 2002, 13:11

When they got their act together, and want to join, I say let them. I'm just not sure Turks will still want it once they realise EU membership not only means access to funds, but also hefty limitations on sovereignty.

The US can't wait to get Turkey into the EU for two reasons: 1st as we'd foot the bill for stablising this US ally, and 2nd they see Turkey as a trojan horse to undermine the Union.

DinoDoc · December 11, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
As for the comparison of the economies of Turkey and Germany,

What I said was that Germany's economy is a drag on the European economy.

Sprayber · December 11, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Geographic proximity is more and more meaningless, Sprayber. After all, Turkey has closer ties to the US than Europe and is more firmly under the influence of the US than any other country in the world. It would make as much sense for them to demand the US that they join us.

Since joining the US would mean them being a mere state and joining the EU would mean being an equal partner, why would it make as much sense?

Dauphin · December 11, 2002, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The reason Europe doesn't want them is there are too many Turks, who they fear would be able to move and live anywhere in the EU, taking good jobs at lower pay from decent Christian white folks (never mind that Turks are white).

I don't buy that Christian rhetoric. I think its just the thought of millions of poor immigrants flooding Europe. The religion, ethnicity or culture is beside the by.

I have reservations about letting Poland and other former Soviet states in too. And you can't say thats due to their culture or religion. Its to do with their economic situation and size of potential migration.

HershOstropoler · December 11, 2002, 13:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber

Since joining the US would mean them being a mere state and joining the EU would mean being an equal partner, why would it make as much sense?

I think you are underestimating the federal structures of the Union.

Harovan · December 11, 2002, 13:13

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What I said was that Germany's economy is a drag on the European economy.

Thank God. That means we'll have to pay less in the common pot in the future. But wait... if it comes to payment, Germany is always considered a giant, while all others are dwarves.