Civ-Specific Strategy: Aztecs

[Zero]

My favorite civ. How do you guys play this god like civ?

[GusSmed]

On Emperor, at least, the Aztecs just beg for a rush.

In my most recent Aztec game, I started with room for just two cities, and boxed in by the Iroquois. With any other civ, I would have been concerned. With the Aztecs, this just meant I mustered five Jaguars and rushed. That's kind of light for an attack later in the game, but when you start adjacent and the enemy only has Warriors that's fine.

Normally I wait until I have 4 cities and 10 Veteran Jaguars, that being what you need against 2 spearmen. I concentrate on nothing but Veteran Jaguars until I'm experiencing serious upkeep problems, and then I switch to Horsemen. With the Aztecs, I never stop being at war.

For a while I used the "ultra early temple" approach, i.e. a temple after my first 2 units with a Religious civ like the Aztecs. I've dropped it because I don't think culture flipping is a serious problem in the Ancient era, and by the time the Middle Ages begin that early culture jump has faded away.

I think they'd be really tough to play this way on Deity, though. The extra units the AI civs start with would negate that early rush advantage.

- Gus

[Robber Baron]

I like playing 'tecs too. The tricky part for me is coping with the question of a golden age. If you use your jags too soon, you may find yourself with a 4 city, despotic, distinctly tarnished "golden age."

Several strategies have worked for me:

1) If I find myself close enough to two civs at the outset of the game, and starting in a good, fertile spot (river, wheat, cows...) it is possible to undertake what might be called accelerated oscillation: build up 5-6 cities as rapidly as possible (less, and the golden age impact will be negligable), build 1 or 2 rax, maybe one temple .... then go on the attack, while the AI are still in rex mode. Strength in numbers: churn out jags, pillage wildly, disrupt behind enemy lines, extort tech and gold, cripple civs to either side. Take advantage of the fact that few civs have the heart for a real fight at this point in the game. Don't let yourself get bogged down, either. Cause some pain, take a city, maybe a settler pair or two, bring the AI to terms and go home with your tribute.
Then consolidate gains (extend your military road network, build some more rax, a temple or two), and start preparing for round two ... which better come 20 turns later, after peace has expired, because you've spent your golden age and you have committed to a path of expansion via aggression. Don't let up: this path is go go go.
Think of it as 'Grog on crack'.
Those are fun games. Often nervewracking at first -- you feel overextended. Cities behind the lines almost undefended (taking advantage of jags' speed and interior roads for mobile defenses) ...

Another approach is to try to avoid using your jaguars in your first war. Build a mass of them (don't necessarily need to be vets, in my experience) and use them to scout rapidly, pop goody huts, then pull them back behind your front lines. Build a few rax, churn out some vet archers and spear, and send those latter units into war. Wait on the jaguars until you have a forbidden palace up, maybe until you reach monarchy. .... then unleash them alongside your regular troops. While sword/horse stacks besiege cities, send the jags behind the lines to pillage. They will take casualties, but soon enough one will win. Boom, you're golden -- and meanwhile waging war. This time, conquer major territory.

[Dominae]

Ah, the Aztecs. I'm going to follow sort of the same format as with the Americans, although this will probably be a lot shorter (edit: I guess not!). First I'll talk about traits, then the UU, and finally some general strategies for MP.

Traits: Fundamentalism Revisited

a. Combo?

Militaristic and Religious. To me this sounds like the recipe for "Fundamentalism", and given how strong that government was in Civ2, there's a safe bet that the Aztecs have something going for them in Civ3 as well. Every warmongering civ needs a "helping hand" so that their economy supports their military endeavours. Just consider China, which is arguably the best warmongering civ: with the help of Industrious trait and cheap Barracks, the Chinese economy is in a great position to raise a fearsome army. Contrast them with the Zulus, who tend to run out of steam. The Aztecs are similar to the Chinese, but for a completely different economic reason. Basically, the Aztecs allow you to war war war, without having to worry about unhappiness back home (hence my comparision to Fundamentalism). As you push your advantage on the military front, it's a simple matter to pop rush some Temples or switch into Monarchy to ensure a stable population. Later on, cheap Cathedrals mean that cities can be rise in population without worries, indirectly affecting your economy by putting more Laborers on tiles and lowering the Luxury slider.

b. Religious

Surprisingly, the Religious trait is the more important one for the Aztecs. At the expense of everything else, Aztecs cities outside the core should always poprush Temples ASAP (those in the core are busy with Jags, but can nonetheless afford some "time off" to hurry a Temple). With a relatively high Culture, the Aztecs are in a great position for continued without Culture flips. The more secular warmongers need to put some effort to expand their borders. The Aztecs, on the other hand, can conquer early and have a vibrant Culture up well before a first government change. There is nothing more awesome to see than the big green Aztec blob expanding so fast and so relentlessly.

c. Militaristic

Being Militaristic obviously helps the Aztecs do some efficient warmongering. Whether or not Barracks are built early for training Jags (see 2a below), their low cost means that the Aztecs will have proper forces at the ready when the Jags start running out of steam.

d. Metagame

Time and time again, veteran players will say that the most basic and essential improvements are Temples and Barracks. Aztecs, with the advantage of having cheaper versions of both, are directly exploiting the game's "optimal" structures.

e. Techs

Ceremonial Burial, other than granting immediate access to Temples (which is, IMunpopularO, largely irrelevant) allows faster access to Monarchy (along with the also free Warrior Code). A quick switch to Monarchy is your second goal in the early-game, right behind causing havoc with Jags. A nice bonus is that many techs along the Monarchy path are priced highly by the AI (Mysticism, Polytheism, and Monarchy itself).

Warrior Code itself is surprisingly not that important. You simply should not be building Archers instead of Jags. Warrior Code is therefore best used as a trade item. A nice side effect here is that civs with Warrior Code will tend to build Archers instead of more Spearmen, which is just great news for your Jags. As stated above, Warrior Code is another required tech for Monarchy, meaning there's only 3 techs to research before a government change. Warrior Code also helps get Horsemen faster, which should be the Aztec's fallback weapon after Jags stop causing major damage.


2. The Power of Jags

The Aztecs traits are nice, but this civ is really all about its UU. Everything the Aztec player does until the arrival of Pikemen and Knights (and even beyond) should be in consideration of these little guys. I'm serious. The first few Aztec cities (up to the fifth one) should queue Jags and Settlers exclusively. Temples are nice, but Jags are good in numbers, and 1 Temple is 3 Jags. When in doubt, build a Jag. Jag Jag Jag! Whew, I hope I'm making my point clear. Quite honestly, if you build enough of your UU early on, you're on the right track. The rest of this guide besides this is just window-dressing.

a. Attack or Pillage?

There are two schools of thought on the best way to utilize Jags in the early-game. I'll discuss both, but be warned: my preference is for the second option.

I.
Jags can be used offensively to take down other cities in what is not surprisingly called a "Jaguar Rush". The strategy is simple 3-step plan: 1) find the enemy (using Jags), 2) build a Barracks or two (to build Jags) and 3) relentlessly attack enemy holdings (with Jags). Probabilistic analysis in other threads (most recently, "Why the Jaguar rush works") reveals that losses are minimal if cities are defended with Warriors. The idea is that the early capture or destruction of an enemy city far outweighs 2 Jags, or 20 Shields; no other civ can reliably destroy their neighbor so early and at so little cost. In addition to giving you more land to expand into, the destruction of another civ will perhaps generate a Leader (see point 'b' below for why this is especially pertinent to the Aztecs). The obvious disadvantage to the Jag rush is that you're blowing your GA earlier than any other civ. This is simply the cost of the most disruptive UU in the game. Turning lemons into lemonade, you should endeavour to use your GA to pop out even more Jags, perhaps taking down a second neighbor in the process (if you can do so, the early GA was well worth it). Another less obvious disadvantage is that the Jag rush works less and less effectively the higher the difficulty. On anything Monarch and lower you're golden. On Emperor you have to be prepared for the fact that you're going to encounter some resistance (4 Warriors, a Spearmen...ugh). On Deity, I don't recommend the Jag rush at all.

II.
Another possibility with Jags is to use them offensively only for "guerilla tactics", such as pillaging enemy improvements, ambushing their Settlers en route, capturing their undefended Workers, and generally doing anything that you know will be a nuisance. Let's call this the "Jaguar Storm". This may not sound as strong as the Jag rush, but experience has demonstrated that it is almost as crippling, and ultimately achieves the same effect: domination over your nearest neighbor. To give a few examples, threatening the enemy with Jags: 1) effectively halts their expansion (especially against humans...the AI will just repeatedly send out suicidal Settlers), 2) slows down their economy, by either destroying their improvements or preventing their Workers from building new ones (pillaging Luxuries or standing on Bonus resources is especially fun!), 3) contains them to a small part of the map so that you can hopefully contact other civs first. With such a restricted neighbor, it should be no trouble destroying them at any later date. Do not be afraid not to conquer their cities if you think your Jags won't survive: you've got the upper hand, and will surely keep it until your Horsemen (or Swordsmen) arrive. If you don't care about your reputation (or haven't contacted any other civs yet), you can always sue for Peace to get some techs, then destroy them utterly a short while later. The Aztecs mus be played ruthlessly.

b.

Since Jags have the retreat ability, you should get very minimal losses with them. And given that they're available right from the get-go, this means you're going to get a lot of Veterans and Elites. I routinely "train" my Jags or Barbarians or soft enemy targets (Conscript Warriors especially) to get them Elite. An Elite Jag is not only respectable on offense, but will rarely die; in other words, a veritable recipe for Leaders. A Leader in the early years is tremendous boon. My own advice is to get Masonry and rush the Pyramids, although if you really want to frustrate your opponents in MP you could make a Jag Army!

c.

Beyond the early-game, Jags are still useful. Although for direct conquest, your Jags will eventually be replaced by more efficient troops, you'll still want to use them in other areas. Pillaging is always a possibility. I see Aztecs as Scouts that can defend themselves, and one of the best uses of Scouts (other than scouting!) is resource denial and pillaging. Jags can do these, but better, by being able to run away from a potential counter-attack. I've effectively used Jags alongside Cavalry for early-Industrial conquests, so this UU's shelf life is the longest that I can think of. In light of this, I suggest never upgrading Jags to Swordsmen or Medieval Infantry. Really, you're losing gold and movement and gaining comparatively little. Once Railroads come on the scence, Jags are a lot less useful, so the Jag->Guerilla upgrade is ok (although horrendously expensive). Finally a word about pillaging: destroying tile improvements is not a bad thing! People argue that leaving those improvements there so that you won't have to build them again once you conquer the city. But the fact is, conquest is a lot easier if the targets are softened up first, either with bombardment or pillaging. Forcing a city into starvation to get pop down or disconnecting its resources to get it to revolt are reliable ways to tilt the odds in your favor. Don't deny yourself this advantage.


3. Multiplayer Madness

Almost everything above applies to MP games. The one major difference is human opponents will be a lot smarter when under a Jag storm. For instance, they'll defend their Settlers are lot more effectively, and will attempt to lure your Jags away from the most critical targets. Your advantage here is twofold: first, with 2 movement points, human players have a tough time guessing exactly what you're going to do on your turn, since there's just so many possibilites; second; humans can be intimidated, and there's nothing more intimidating than being under seige in the first 30 turns of the game.

Your goal with a tough human opponent should be containment. Although brute force may not work, by forcing them to do everything slowly and carefully, you're making more room for yourself. Eventually you should prevail.

Like I mentioned in the Americans thread, 2 movement point units can be used to play "mind games". There is simply no way for their units to catch up with your Jags, so walk around their territory at will. Most players will consider this a declaration of war, but there's a wonderful grey area that you can exploit. Once in a while, jump inside their borders for a good look, then jump back out. Players will be annoyed by this, but don't feel guilty, it's all part of choosing the Aztecs.

Probably most importantly, every MP player fears the Aztecs (rightfully, I think), but they are rarely picked because their advantages are difficult to leverage. So you should have free reign to use this awesome civ, and therefore become any player's worst fear. Have fun!


That's it. Comments and everything else always welcome.


Dominae


P.S: Jag Jag Jag.

[Zero]

Originally posted by GusSmed
On Emperor, at least, the Aztecs just beg for a rush.

In my most recent Aztec game, I started with room for just two cities, and boxed in by the Iroquois. With any other civ, I would have been concerned. With the Aztecs, this just meant I mustered five Jaguars and rushed. That's kind of light for an attack later in the game, but when you start adjacent and the enemy only has Warriors that's fine.

Normally I wait until I have 4 cities and 10 Veteran Jaguars, that being what you need against 2 spearmen. I concentrate on nothing but Veteran Jaguars until I'm experiencing serious upkeep problems, and then I switch to Horsemen. With the Aztecs, I never stop being at war.

For a while I used the "ultra early temple" approach, i.e. a temple after my first 2 units with a Religious civ like the Aztecs. I've dropped it because I don't think culture flipping is a serious problem in the Ancient era, and by the time the Middle Ages begin that early culture jump has faded away.

I think they'd be really tough to play this way on Deity, though. The extra units the AI civs start with would negate that early rush advantage.

- Gus

Bah, you dont know how to play aztecs. The optimal method with Aztecs is not to rush. Especially in SP, where AI is not as cunning as a human player..

MP is a different story. That depends on how you play and how the enemy plays against you.

P.S 10 Jags? 0_o? Are u crazy? Thats what you call a rush?

[Zero]

Ugh Im not gonna quote Dominae's post

Anyway, for the most part (especially in SP) I dont see Jags as a unit. In fact, there are few civs that I dont see as having a UU (france, korea) and dont incorporate this into my GA planning and war tactics. (I use hwachas tho)

I just treat as if Aztecs were all about mil/rel/exp civ and plan a long game. I use the upgrade elite jags to elite swordmen to avoid GA triggering for most part.

[Charis]

You start a series of threads, give no strat as you open them, then when someone shares a strat, for a civ and difficulty for which it works well, and you respond with this...

Bah, you dont know how to play aztecs.

I use the upgrade elite jags to elite swordmen

Elites don't upgrade to elites, they upgrade to vets.
Why on EARTH would anyone upgrade a jag to a slower swordsman for 40 gold???

Also, if you like Rel/Mil and make NO use out of one of the most tactically rich UU's in the game, why not just stick with Japan?

Charis

[Zero]

Originally posted by Charis

Elites don't upgrade to elites, they upgrade to vets.
Why on EARTH would anyone upgrade a jag to a slower swordsman for 40 gold???

Also, if you like Rel/Mil and make NO use out of one of the most tactically rich UU's in the game, why not just stick with Japan?

Charis

Not anymore and If I used Japan, I wouldn't have an "expansionistic" mod.

[Arrian]

I actually prefer Japan for the very reason that I prefer NOT to blow my GA with Jags. I've played the Aztecs, and have found Jags to be *excellent* barbarian killers and scouts, but the thought of using them early in the game is difficult for me to accept. I've done it, and I don't like it. Then again, I've never taken it to it's extreme: see Vel's thread entitled "The Joys of Being a Bloodthirsty Barbarian."

I do think that in SP, the human player has the advantage of NOT using the Jags until the time is just right, kinda like the Bab bowmen, which aren't very good units in and of themselves but because of that can be held out of battle until you want a GA. The Aztecs, pre-GA, can build Jags, move them to the front (where one can poprush a barracks for 1 pop point) and upgrade them to swordsmen. True, you lose mobility, but you gain attack & defense strength and do not blow your GA. It's like playing Japan w/o Samurai (which, although I like the unit, isn't that big a deal).

-Arrian

p.s. Elites upgrade to Vets. Period.

[GusSmed]

Originally posted by Calc II
The optimal method with Aztecs is not to rush.

So? Defend your thesis. Why is this the "optimal" method. Specify difficulty - I agree with Dominae, on Deity, rushing is probably not a good idea. It works very well on Emperor and below, though.

P.S 10 Jags? 0_o? Are u crazy? Thats what you call a rush?

Nope, last time I checked I was perfectly sane. What's wrong with building 10 Jags? And why is it not a "rush" when you're attacking an enemy who is still thinking about basic expansion? You're trading your own expansion for military units, and it's generally fairly early, 1500 BC or so.

- Gus

[DaveMcW]

Playing the Aztecs without JWs works fine, thanks to the power of militaristic/religious. I hate having a despot GA so I end up using JWs to extend the swordman prebuild phase, when the random generator or a scenario forces me to play Aztec.

If you choose the Aztecs over the Japanese, you must be doing it for the jag rush.

[ducki]

Originally posted by DaveMcW

If you choose the Aztecs over the Japanese, you must be doing it for the jag rush.

Or for "roleplay" value.
I regularly pick a civ for roleplay value.

Decide on a long-term "attitude" for a given civ and see what happens.

Example - what would happen if the Babylonians were bloodthirsty barbarians?
Example - what if the Mongols were pacifistic?

There's all sorts of fun to be had in picking a civ for roleplaying reasons as opposed to all the meta-game "strategy" reasons.


I know the archer/horseman/jag/impi/bowman rush is viewed as a "strategy", but I see it as more of an "exploit" of the AI behavior and game mechanics... essentially, you're forcing the AI to play at a higher difficulty level when you "prune to cripple".

It's a very valid game-winning tactic - in fact, it seems that simply pruning 2 or 3 neighbors in the very early game will very nearly guarantee you the game on many maps - but I wouldn't call it the sole reason to pick a certain civ.

I like Japan a lot, but I don't play deity or emperor, so I've usually hit my GA with wonders before my Samurai get to start it anyways.

I also like Azteca a lot too, but not for the ultra-early rush as much as for the scouts that can defend themselves while becoming elite and the easy culture protection.


Yes, the early rush is a game-maker.
No, it's not the reason to pick any civ, IMO.

[Dominae]

DaveMcW, Militaristic/Religious is IMO an "above-average" trait combo, but nothing spectacular. I mentioned some ways it could be considered strong in my (long) post, but what is it about those two in concert that does it for you? I simply must disagree with you about Jags as Swordsmen pre-builds (aren't Warriors for that?!), but then again I dislike Swordsmen in general.

ducki, picking civs for roleplay value is a great way to play the game. I think that's what inspired me to think of the Aztecs as 'Fundamentalists' (too bad my imagination isn't better, or I'd be using Jags as peacekeepers!). However, from a strategic perspective, Jags and early rushes are the reason to pick the Aztecs.

Concerning the early GA, there is something (good) to be said about GAs at every stage of the game. In MP, when your opponent is hemming you in with Jags, realising that he or she is probably in a GA too is very demoralising, and for good reason. I'm sure the same applies to SP (if only the AI could "feel").


Dominae