Thread Tools
Old December 16, 2002, 19:14   #91
Traianvs
BtS Tri-League
King
 
Traianvs's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Posts: 2,647
Quote:
The Audigy and Audigy 2 support DD5.1, but I can't think of a single game which uses it
Well, I know Hitman2 and Soldier of Fortune2 have it (btw these 2 games you get for free when you buy the card)

And, considering these 2 free games, and the performance of the card, the price is very cheap...
__________________
"An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
"Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca
Traianvs is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 20:11   #92
CapitanGarlic
NationStates
Prince
 
CapitanGarlic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: no longer.
Posts: 429
I like them all. IMHO, PC's will never be able to do Fighting games as well as consoles, and Consoles will never be able to do FPS's and Strategy games as well as PC's. I'd like to think that it shouldn't be a matter of hardware, but rather games. If a game is good, I don't care what's running it.
__________________
Talent Optional
CapitanGarlic is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 20:21   #93
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
Quote:
Originally posted by Fez
And Asher stop posting uncredible sources. You are only damaging yourself. No console defeats my computer period.

Suddenly Electronic Art's presentation at SIGGRAPH 2002 is "uncredible".

Glorious!

They're only the world's largest games publisher presenting a paper at the world's foremost computer graphics conference.

Quote:
Well, I know Hitman2 and Soldier of Fortune2 have it (btw these 2 games you get for free when you buy the card)

And, considering these 2 free games, and the performance of the card, the price is very cheap...
You're thinking of EAX-HD, which is not Dolby Digital 5.1. I have both of those games on the PC and an Audigy (btw, they're also out on Xbox (Hitman2) or coming out for Xbox (SOF2) in the near future).

And Xbox comes with 2 free games too. The price is beyond "very cheap".
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer

Last edited by Asher; December 16, 2002 at 20:27.
Asher is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 20:30   #94
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
Asher, admit it. Fez is your DL to make you look good, right?

Fez, PC games ARE more buggy than console games. Just look at the flap over Civ3. And then there's Hearts of Iron, and it's EU predecessors. And tons of other titles going back for years (Ultima 9, oy vey) There has been a sagging trend in the PC game industry to release incomplete games and fix them with patches later. I bet that is partly to blame for the decrease in PC game sales, as game buyers are finally becoming unwilling to plop down $50 for a product they aren't even sure will work out of the box.

Console games can't rely on patches, so they naturally are going to work more and be more bug-free. Especially since they'e designed for one system, not the mish-mash of components in PCs.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 20:42   #95
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
I'm about to head for dinner so I'll just do a basic "Gaming Architecture 101" for Fez:

When designing PC games, the code needs to be able to run fine on a vast array of systems. Systems with 128MB RAM, systems with 1GB of RAM. systems with Windows 98, Systems with Windows XP, Systems with Windows 2000, Systems with Windows Millenium, etc.

Systems with a Kyro II video card, Voodoo 3/4/5, Radeon, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9700, TNT2, GeForce 1, 2, 3, 4, and FX, etc. The amount of optimizations you can do for each platform is exceedingly minimal.

With a console, like the Xbox for example, everything is always the same. The developers can ALWAYS count on the exact same charateristics for each console. They can avoid and bypass the whole HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) DirectX uses on the PC and write directly to the hardware, letting them do far more things. Developers can always count on the graphics chip having, say, 128KB of texture cache so they can fill it up perfectly each time. On the PC, some graphics chips don't even have a texture cache!

Then there's the fundamental design differences. The Xbox has a unified memory architecture. The video RAM is the system RAM is the sound RAM. On the PC, if the CPU ever needs to deal with vertex data (which is very important, mind you, for things like collision detection), it needs to send this data back on the AGP bus from the video RAM and copy it over to the system RAM. The AGP bus is already nearly full because it's constantly loading the textures from the harddrive or RAM also. This is a major performance hit. On the Xbox, the CPU can just touch the vertex instantly in the RAM -- it doesn't need to move it anywhere.

The PC isn't designed around gaming, it has MANY design "features" that severely hamper gaming performance, which is why an Xbox will outperform a similarly configured PC by a substantial margin.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 22:12   #96
Ironikinit
Prince
 
Ironikinit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 421
I just wanted to point out that strategy games aren't unknown on consoles. In fact, two titles mentioned by name in this thread as examples of why players wouldn't use a console (Panzer General and Civilization 2) I can remember from the Play Station. I never played Civ 2 on the PS, but my friend did. He complained that the late game had extreme lag. I played PG all the time, though, and never had a problem. I've since played it (admittedly not much) on the PC and did not notice a difference. Other strategy titles I owned were A Train, Allied General, X-Com, and Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat. All of them ran fine, and I also got a CD player out of the deal by hooking the PS to my stereo. It really was a bargain and when I had company we could play hockey or Tekken.

Another supposed console drawback, that of lack of a mouse, seems I can recall a console system that offered one.

The PS had for me an advantage that others have pointed out and I strongly agree: ease of use. I didn't need to look for patches or reconfigure the system to play a particular game. Hmm, now that I think on it, making the switch to PC could be seen as an expensive blunder. Of course, free games are easy to find online, and when I made the change I was in a small town and made some more interesting friends online so I don't regret it. However, I really didn't need such an expensive system. I could've bought a much more moderate system for chat, outdated/low-end strategy games, browsing, word-processing, etc. and put the savings into about 12 different consoles...
__________________
Above all, avoid zeal. --Tallyrand.
Ironikinit is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 22:24   #97
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Sorry Ashboy, but no console is better than my computer.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 22:32   #98
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
Well how can I compete with that logic?

What do you have again, Fez? 1.4GHz Athlon with a GeForce 2?

Hardly a high end machine. I would rank your system above PS2 and below GCN and Xbox.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 22:38   #99
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
"If I just keep repeating it to myself, it isn't true!"

Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs, just that they were outselling PCs and gaining in popularity.

No one can deny that PCs are far more versatile than consoles, and there's no way consoles will replace PCs. But consoles are specifically DESIGNED to play games, PCs are not. So in pure gaming terms, console quality will always exceed PC quality (in general). That's not to say there aren't some spectacular games for the PC, but it is much more difficult to make quality PC games than console games.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 23:04   #100
Drake Tungsten
Deity
 
Drake Tungsten's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
Quote:
Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs
I am. Consoles are far better for gaming.

No computer is better than my console.
__________________
KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!
Drake Tungsten is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 23:20   #101
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
Quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Quote:
Fez, this thread wasn't saying anything about Consoles being better than PCs
I am. Consoles are far better for gaming.
Did you read my whole post, dammit?

Gaming, sure. But try word processing or graphics design on your console.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 23:22   #102
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
Pick the right tool for the job.

Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.

Voila.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 23:34   #103
ixnay
Civilization II Democracy GamePtWDG Lux InvictaPtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations Team
Emperor
 
ixnay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,215
Quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Did you read my whole post, dammit?

Gaming, sure. But try word processing or graphics design on your console.


How on earth do you think I get all my image editing work done?
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	arcadepsp.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	17.6 KB
ID:	31860  
ixnay is offline  
Old December 16, 2002, 23:41   #104
Drake Tungsten
Deity
 
Drake Tungsten's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
Quote:
Did you read my whole post, dammit?
Not really. I was too busy trolling.
__________________
KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!
Drake Tungsten is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:05   #105
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.
Mario sucks in general .
__________________
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:06   #106
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
I can understand how the coordination and 3D spatial problem solving can be difficult for some.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:09   #107
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
No console can yet surf the web with 1600*1200 resolution, so I think I'll pass .
__________________
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:11   #108
Jon Miller
staff
ApolyCon 06 ParticipantsCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization II MultiplayerRise of Nations MultiplayerPtWDG Vox ControliC4DG Vox
OTF Moderator
 
Jon Miller's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 13,063
Quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Pick the right tool for the job.

Civ would suck on the console, Mario would suck on the PC.

Voila.
I agree

Jon Miller
__________________
Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
Jon Miller is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:11   #109
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
What, 1920x1080 isn't good enough for you?
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:17   #110
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
What, 1920x1080 isn't good enough for you?
That's right .
__________________
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:18   #111
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
But 1920x1080 has 153,600 more pixels.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:32   #112
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
Why would mario be any better on a console than a pc? I mean, in the early versions of mario, you only use, like, five buttons or so!
__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:34   #113
Asher
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
President of the OT
 
Asher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
Because Mario is very much a laydown-on-the-couch and play game. By contrast, Civ3 is very much a hunch-over-to-the-monitor game.

I find console gaming more relaxing and PC gaming more stimulating, in general.

Which is why during the school year I almost exclusively* play console games.

* with the exception of games like Asheron's Call 2, which are more relaxing PC games
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
Asher is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 02:39   #114
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
But 1920x1080 has 153,600 more pixels.
But I like my height to width ratio better .
__________________
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 05:46   #115
The Pioneer
Prince
 
The Pioneer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 720
I am with Asher on this one, I like all kinds of games but I like to play most of them on the console than on a PC. There are some games though like Civ, RRT, AOE, etc. that are better off on a PC.

By the way Mario rocks!

So long...
__________________
Excellence can be attained if you Care more than other think is wise, Risk more than others think is safe, Dream more than others think is practical and Expect more than others think is possible.
Ask a Question and you're a fool for 3 minutes; don't ask a question and you're a fool for the rest of your life! Chinese Proverb
Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. Warren Buffet
The Pioneer is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 06:25   #116
Skanky Burns
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 Spartans
 
Skanky Burns's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
Ixnay, you've outdone yourself with that one!

__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
Skanky Burns is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 06:32   #117
Dis
ACDG3 SpartansC4DG Vox
Deity
 
Dis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
and not to mention PC's are great for spamming Apolyton when you get tird of the annoying features of civ3
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
Dis is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 07:30   #118
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Alright, alright, alright! I will concede partial defeat. Some games are better on consoles but some games are better on PC. It is more like a 50/50 split. My brother was playing Allied Assault on his Gamecube and it sucks and is in no way comparable to the vastly superior PC version. But the console was designed for different types of games I guess.

Quote:
Hardly a high end machine. I would rank your system above PS2 and below GCN and Xbox.
Load of bullshit. Nope. Wrong. This machine is vastly superior to all consoles. And don't you ever compare my computer to a PS2 you misled leftist.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 18:00   #119
Saint Marcus
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III Multiplayer
King
 
Saint Marcus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scio Me Nihil Scire
Posts: 2,532
Quote:
Are you saying Fez is super strong and a pimp?
well...one out of two aint bad

Quote:
Load of bullshit. Nope. Wrong. This machine is vastly superior to all consoles. And don't you ever compare my computer to a PS2 you misled leftist.
dude, you rock!

it is amazing how Fez can make any debate turn into a leftist-rightist debate. If you like consoles, you're a leftist. If you like PCs, you're a rightist. Fez supreme reasoning goes way above my head.
__________________
Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
Saint Marcus is offline  
Old December 17, 2002, 18:02   #120
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:40
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Mark, get a clue.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:40.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright The Apolyton Team