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View Poll Results: War people whom speak out against the war anti-american or patriotic?
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Patriotic.
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47.37% |
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Anti-American.
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13.16% |
Everyones a banana 
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15 |
39.47% |
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December 17, 2002, 11:16
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#31
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Emperor
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"this is basically a war for the American imperialistic interests"
It is a "war" to remove Saddam's weapons of MD. 
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December 17, 2002, 11:16
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#32
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King
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a lot of people who say they love their country also start statements with I'm not racist but....
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December 17, 2002, 11:20
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#33
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Emperor
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Agree with MtG and Kontiki.
If you feel your government is acting wrongly, you're morally right to express that. To assume it makes one unpatriotic or anti-American is wrong.
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Tutto nel mondo č burla
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December 17, 2002, 11:21
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#34
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Emperor
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But loving blindly is not patriotic. Protesting, stating different views is however very patriotic.
Loving your country, and disagreeing with it's leaders is not impossible.
I'm pro-war in Iraq, I'm also pro-war in N. korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran to name few. If it stops in Iraq, I'm disappointed. The way I see it, let's get them all, or just forget it. Reasons: N.Korea has WoMD, Iran is supporting terrorist, and so is Saudi Arabia big time.
We might also consider liberating the people in China.
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In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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December 17, 2002, 11:29
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#35
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Emperor
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The thing is with left-wingers in the US, they'll criticise the government no matter what its policies are - that is unpatriotic, and that is what the current bunch of lefties are doing.
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December 17, 2002, 11:37
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#36
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Deity
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Why didn't you start a poll on Russia? Too dull ?
To answer your question, no it's not unpatriotic.
It's essentially what the U.S. is all about, but a stinking Russkie wouldn't recognize that fact. 
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December 17, 2002, 11:43
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#37
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OTF Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Boddington's
The thing is with left-wingers in the US, they'll criticise the government no matter what its policies are - that is unpatriotic, and that is what the current bunch of lefties are doing.
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That's because whatever party is in power in the US they won't have any policies acceptable to left wingers.
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December 17, 2002, 11:53
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#38
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Deity
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"There will always be war, and rumors of war."
But no, only an imbecile embraces war.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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December 17, 2002, 11:53
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#39
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Emperor
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Like any group ther will be multiple motivations among the protesters. The predominate sentiment among Vietnam War protest that I personally observed (almost certainly not a representative sample) 30 something years ago was clearly racism.
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December 17, 2002, 11:53
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#40
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Prince
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Quote:
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It is a "war" to remove Saddam's weapons of MD.
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Oh come on! What WMD? Bush has shown us no evidence whatsoever and even if he could do that, then what's your problem? Don't you have WMD? Doesn't Israel have WMD? Doesn't South Africa have WMD?
It is time to end with these silly excuses.
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December 17, 2002, 12:02
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#41
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Emperor
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South Africa has WoMD?
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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December 17, 2002, 12:06
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#42
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Like any group ther will be multiple motivations among the protesters. The predominate sentiment among Vietnam War protest that I personally observed (almost certainly not a representative sample) 30 something years ago was clearly racism.
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How do you figure?
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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December 17, 2002, 12:11
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#43
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by axi
Oh come on! What WMD? Bush has shown us no evidence whatsoever and even if he could do that, then what's your problem? Don't you have WMD? Doesn't Israel have WMD? Doesn't South Africa have WMD?
It is time to end with these silly excuses.
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Israel or South Africa will not be first users of WMD. Iraq could well be. Therefore Iraq's need taking off them.
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December 17, 2002, 12:20
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#44
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kepler
Under 20 they're just sheep following their peer group, just like the under 20's who are pro-war.
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Bullshit
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December 17, 2002, 12:44
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#45
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Deity
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Well-argued, oh he of the dancing cow. 
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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December 17, 2002, 12:45
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#46
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OTF Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Boddington's
Israel or South Africa will not be first users of WMD. Iraq could well be. Therefore Iraq's need taking off them.
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They are too late. The US was the first user.
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December 17, 2002, 12:49
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#47
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Emperor
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In response to others' use of weapons of destruction. That was an isolated case, and the US never likely to use them first, unless in pre-emptive retaliation.
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December 17, 2002, 12:51
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#48
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Emperor
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New favourite phrase found!
pre-emptive retaliation: attacking someone before they can do anything on the ground that they might do something.
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Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
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December 17, 2002, 12:53
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#49
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OTF Moderator
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It was a terrorist attack, they wanted to scare Japan into surrendering to them.
If, say, Israel launched an airstrike on Iraq. Something they've done before, and Iraq responded with WMD would that be any different to what the US did?
Ok so the Japanese airstrike on Pearl Harbour was a major one and the US nuke use came at the end of a long war but is it really that different?
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December 17, 2002, 12:54
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#50
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Deity
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True, Boddington's.
Starchild has been sniffing fax fumes again.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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December 17, 2002, 14:15
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#51
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King
Local Time: 09:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kontiki
No Fez, you didn't. Try to understand what he said - that you can realize war is bad but think it is unfortunately necessary in some cases (like you do with Iraq). Unless of course you think that Iraq should be attacked constantly and without remorse, killing everyone regardless of who their leader is.
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Yes but he said anybody who is pro-war in Iraq is insane. I am pro-war in Iraq, and I am that way accepting all of the possible consquences and outcomes. War is not a good thing but is required sometimes and in this case is absolutely necessary because of Saddam Hussein, not because of Iraqi people. Afterall, the Iraqi people have to be liberated from Saddam's fists.
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South Africa has WoMD?
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No they do not. Or at least they say they do not. They voluntarily got rid of all their nuclear weapons in 1991.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/rsa/missile/index.html
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On March 25, 1993, Prime Minister P.W. DeKlerk announced that six of a planned seven atomic bombs had been built, but then dismantled in 1990. (4) This is the first case of a country voluntarily scrapping its nuclear weapons. (Later examples are Belarus, Kazahkstan, and Ukraine.) South Africa signed the NPT in 1991. With the advent of the Mandela government, the Arniston has been cancelled, nuclear weapons development has been repudiated, and South Africa has joined the MTCR in October 1995. In February 1999, South Africa's first satellite, Sunsat was launched into space on board a US Air Force Boeing Delta II rocket.
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They rather redirected money towards launching Satellites.
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Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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December 17, 2002, 14:53
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#52
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OTF Moderator
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There is some question to your sanity.
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December 17, 2002, 14:53
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#53
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MikeH
There is some question to your sanity.
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Why is that, leftist?
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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December 17, 2002, 14:59
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#54
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Prince
Local Time: 12:45
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Posts: 660
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kepler
Under 20 they're just sheep following their peer group, just like the under 20's who are pro-war.
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I take offence at that. Just because someone's at high school doesn't mean that 100% of their opinions are defined by the majority. I'm under 20 and I hold some individual and clearly-defined views which are considerably at odds with those of my peer group.
And Fez...using 'leftist' as an insult really doesn't work...
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"Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman
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December 17, 2002, 15:03
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#55
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OTF Moderator
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It's an accurate statement about me.
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December 17, 2002, 15:08
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#56
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Prince
Local Time: 12:45
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That's exactly the point. He meant it to be derogatory, but to some people it's just a statement of fact.
__________________
"Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman
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December 17, 2002, 15:08
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#57
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:45
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Posts: 146
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The whole reason for Israel having nuclear weapons is for first use, i.e., if they're getting clobbered and need an equalizer.
The US was the first to use atomic weapons, but the first use of modern WMD was Britain, France, and Germany in WWI.
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December 17, 2002, 15:13
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#58
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OTF Moderator
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What do you know, you're only 3 years old.
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December 17, 2002, 17:26
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#59
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
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December 17, 2002, 17:28
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#60
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Deity
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What does that have to do with anything Tass?
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