Emanciptation: Discussion and Pre-poll

[Kloreep]

It's about time we set the workers free. There are plenty of cities that can accept slaves from the country (Oak Ridge, for one), and Hospitals will provide an opportunity for further integration.

Several points we should discuss:
1. Are we for emancipation?
2. If so, how much are we willing to spend toward it? (We have so many slaves, we may have to build some domestic workers to free up space in our cities if we want them all set free NOW. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for hospitals to start coming on-line, which will take a while.)
3. If so, what form do want it to take? (Completely unofficial effort by Spiffor and the RAs, powerless senate bill in conjunction with that, or a full-blown amendment that orders emancipation and maybe prevents us from taking more slaves later on.)

[Nimitz]

Yes lets free the oppressed slaves they have rights to we must at least pay them a far wage.

[Shiber]

On the contrary, we should allow our domestic workers to return home to their families and keep the slaves in the fields.
I say we gradually allow our domestic workers to join cities. Their long-term work contracts are about to expire.
Now that we have replaceable parts and our workers work twice as fast, and now that we are about to receive many new slaves from Germany, we will no longer be dependant on a domestic work force and we'll be able to completely rely on slaves.

[Nimitz]

You do know your charter is for freeing the slaves.

[Kloreep]

[RP]
Are slaves not workers? Have they not worked toward everything that makes this nation great? Have they not suffered enough for their former, greedy leader's sins?

This is a great nation. Not only can we afford to treat all as equals, it is something we must do. These slaves are part of the conquered; they are now part of Apolytonia, even if they do not willingly acknowledge that. Give them rights; let them create their own jobs, food, and shelter. Only when they are full citizens will they be glad of their Apolytonian membership - which is as it should be; how can anyone recognize the greatness of our nation when it is obscured by the whip of oppression?
[/RP]

I guess a lot of this argument may be RP. After all, there is no real in-game reason to free slaves (unless they belonged to an ally, in which case you should integreate them so as not to tick off said ally).

[Nimitz]

Originally posted by Kloreep
[RP]
Are slaves not workers? Have they not worked toward everything that makes this nation great? Have they not suffered enough for their former, greedy leader's sins?

This is a great nation. Not only can we afford to treat all as equals, it is something we must do. These slaves are part of the conquered; they are now part of Apolytonia, even if they do not willingly acknowledge that. Give them rights; let them create their own jobs, food, and shelter. Only when they are full citizens will they be glad of their Apolytonian membership - which is as it should be; how can anyone recognize the greatness of our nation when it is obscured by the whip of oppression?
[/RP]

Here Here, I agree only when we stop oppressing them will they truely learn the greatness of our nation the fact we can be gracius and kind to the concored and make them apolytonian.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Nimitz
You do know your charter is for freeing the slaves.

I may be a member of ALP but I'm also a nationalist (only in-game, of course).

[E_T]

Send the Native Workers home. Keep the slaves

As soon as a city increase to size 13, add one Native Worker to it and let the Granary Refill normally for the next pop increase. THis way we get the added benifits of the extra trade & the reduced drain on our economy. Keep the Slaves to take care of Pollution & Global Warming. Keep a few Natives for SMC purposes (a boat load of Natives will be needed for the Zulu Conquest).

E_T

[Shiber]

Originally posted by E_T
Keep a few Natives for SMC purposes (a boat load of Natives will be needed for the Zulu Conquest).

Good point! You're right.

[jdd2007]

We need to keep some workers obviously, but I dont have any objections to 'freeing' a great number, because the cities can always use more factory workers...

[Aidun]

As a liberal I say that every Apolytonian, citizen or slave, must be equal before the law. As slaves do not have the same rights as citizens, slavery must be forbidden and ALL slaves must be freed form slavery. Denying the rights of citizenship to an amount of slaves, for dark purposes can not be allowed!
Apolytonia should be a constitutional state and cannot be so until all slaves are freed!

As an industrialist I say that slaves are inferior workers. They are not as well educated as our free domestic workforce is and are thus less suited for work. Letting them become citizen gives them the chance to get education at our schools and perhaps even study at our great universities. By this way we can make them more useful.

About German slaves I suggest this: let us deny them the right to become citizen as long as the war with Germany goes on. As slaves they cannot riot and we don't get trouble of them. But AS SOON AS the war is over and Germany doesn't exist anymore they should ALL be given the citizenship without any comments.

[Hot_Enamel]

Think of the Slave Handlers ?
And the Whip Makers ?

Keep the slaves as free labour.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
Think of the Slave Handlers ?
And the Whip Makers ?

Keep the slaves as free labour.

Those undemocratic oppressors? The ones who ill-treat people who deserve freedom as much as you and I do?
Those who become rich over the backs of others who are too weak to resist?
Let them start a fair business! They should be lucky not to be condemned!
All Apolytonians MUST be equal before law, or do we want a French Revolution? The ALP is certainly capable to stir the people up against the government.

[pikesfan]

We should at least emancipate the French and American slaves as they have no home any more and no government to protest their living conditions.

[Aidun]

The discussion continues in the opinion poll thread.

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by Aidun


Those undemocratic oppressors? The ones who ill-treat people who deserve freedom as much as you and I do?
Those who become rich over the backs of others who are too weak to resist?
Let them start a fair business! They should be lucky not to be condemned!
All Apolytonians MUST be equal before law, or do we want a French Revolution? The ALP is certainly capable to stir the people up against the government.

Bah, the DIA is in much better position of stirring the people than the ALP is. By membership numbers alone.

Think of it this way. The DIA nearly has a majority over the independents. The only thing standing in their way are the Hawks, ARMS, and the ALP. You should thank us for that!

Meshelic
THE Chairman

[nz_upy]

We need the slaves to do the jobs the native workforce wont do now because of that blasted Labour Party which will be the ruin of us all!!!
that is all

[Mr Mayor]

In this Day and Age (1270 i belive) who of the ciztizens of our nation care about the slaves. I say keep em , there cheap and they get things done. Do it for the capatilists and the industrialists. Give em back later if they still have nations to return to, but for a high price ofcource. They still should be treated fairly , no beatings and should be fed. I'm anti racist but in this period of time nobody realy cares for them. Let em do thier work and when there sitin down in the cites doing nothing then free them or let them becom full citizens of the nation. If our culture is fairly good they'll stay content.

[GhengisFarb™]

We need the slaves to clean up the pollution. We need the workers for the Zulu Conquest. There is no reason to free any of them and every reason to not free them.

[Arnelos]

In the interests of spreading the religious practices of the almighty Great Banana, we should free the slaves and allow them to join our cities.

The record of assimilation of foreigners to Apolytonian cultural norms (including worship of the Great Banana) has proven to be remarkably successful when foreigners are integrated into the urbanized workforce of the nation. There, in our temples, our schools, our libraries, our cathedrals, and other Apolytonian cultural centres, they learn about the superior nature of Apolytonian culture and become willing converts to the enlightenment of Apolyton and the grace of the Great Banana.

Those foreigners who have been slaves, however, have themselves and their progeny remained unassimilated and foreign to the enlightenment of Apolyton and the grace of the Great Banana over these many centuries.

As such, in the interests of spreading the enlightenment of Apolytonian culture and the benign and merciful grace of the Great Banana, the slaves should be freed and joined to our cities - that they might finally come into contact with the light. For the cruelty of work without pay is a minor cruelty of slavery compared to the inconceivable cruelty of denying these slaves enlightened educations and conversion to the worship of the Great Banana!

For, in the end, our goal should be that ALL inside our borders, regardless of ethnic origin, are converts to the enlightenment of Apolyton and the worship of the mericful and gracious Great Banana!

[Nolan]

rp}

Lies Arnelos, lies, your ideas will simply cause more problems for the country and for the slaves themselves. In the first place "slaves" is such a harsh word, why not use the phrase "foriegn assistance", these foriegners have been given the opportunity to work for the betterment of the nation of the Great Bananna, and so in this lifetime they are given the chance to be accepted by the Great Bananna if they work hard to make up for there other faults. People trapped in other nations don't have this chance, and if we add them to our cities they will mearly cause problems, waste food and offend the Great Bananna. Your DIA propaganda sickens me, I had more faith in you Arnelos.

rp}

regards

[Arnelos]

[rp]

So Nolan of the religious cult which has strayed from the true path of the Great Banana, you show your TRUE COLORS!

You have no wish that the Great Banana have the numbers of his worshipers expanded, as he ordained. Rather, you wish that enslaved peoples never be permitted the proper Apolytonian education necessary to learn the truth and enlightenment of the Great Banana!!!

Before, I had considered you only a blasphemer in that you believed that Aggie was wrongfully a prophet of the Great Banana and that you claim the Great Banana would want us to conquer and destroy the whole world in his name. Oh, if only I had known the FULL EXTENT of your blasphemy! Now you claim that we should NOT show the heathens the truth of the Great Banana, even if we have it in our power to do so!!! Surely, you must know that this belief is in directly contradiction to the teachings of the Great Banana - that all the peoples under the domain of Apolyton should be taught the enlightenment and truth of his teachings!!!

I suppose that I must, for your sake, pray that you one day understand the error of your decision here. That you will one day come to see that to prevent a person under Apolytonian rule for learning about the truth of the Great Banana is the most harsh form of cruelty and the worst form of blasphemy possible and will repent. Perhaps Aggie, though he is not a prophet as you claim, will realize that (at the very least) such open blasphemy of the Great Banana does not look good for one who claims to be his prophet

[/rp]

[Nolan]

rp}

You crazed ranting disturbs me my old and respected friend. All I am saying is the only way a foriegn citizen can be enlightened in there own life time, is the work as "foreign assistance" for our nation, when the Great Bananna sees how hard they have worked for us he will accept them in the afterlife. If we intergrate them into our society they will revolt, and then the Great Bananna will hate them, I want everyone to be enlightened, and so slavery, ummm I mean "foreign assistance" is the only way we can enlighten these pagans.

rp}

regards

[zeit]

[rp]
Oh Nolan, how very mistaken you are...
On my last visit in the great city of Macross City, I marveled at its greatness- it's great cathedral and courthouse. the library and the bustling trade center- the marketplace and the bank, and hundreds of thousand of hard working men and women, teaching, learning, preaching, building, researching, producing. And who are those Apolytonian men and women- descendants of the occupied french city, mingled with newcomers from the rest of Apolytonia. Tell me: Why are they not revolting and uprising as you suggested they would?

You weren't here when native and persian were used together to prevent Arbela, once a newly conquered persian city, from flipping to the hands of the English, thus losing important sources of Incense, and taking a terrible blow in terms of our international credibility, as we were exporting that Incense at the time. Where were your treacherous foreign citizens then? Did they revolt, or turned themselves to the hands of the English? No! they stayed with us, and were brought into what Anrelos reffers to as the light, under the grace of the Great Banana. They later celbrated their fate, as being part of this great nation, signaling the English they have nothing to look for, that their allegiance is for Apolytonia. Some of them are already Apolytonians in their hearts, and the others are soon to follow...
[/rp]

[BigFurryMonster]

Slaves? What slaves? I was under the impression that we have some foreign employees with very good working circumstances...: free bananas during lunchtime!

[Nolan]

rp}

Zeit my friend, eventually the children of the children of the children of our current "foreign assistance" would join the light, but if they joined our cities now, entire generations would be sacrificed when these people stayed loyal to there own culture and religion, ignorant of the Great Bananna. If these people continued to work on the fields the Great Bananna would have pity on them and so no-one would have to be sacrificed to an afterlife in a pagan hell. Please remember this and don't sacrifice these poor people by removing them from there positions as "foreign assistance"

rp}

[Mr Mayor]

"foreign assistance" nicely put. They as a foreign people might not turn to the light in belife of our Great Bannana. Cultural sterngth flows stong from the cites of there old nations , the cites and thoses people still remain. as long as there are people like them in there homeland they will belive in there old ways and pass there ways on throughout the ages until culture matters not for anyone. There will always be oposition to the great bannana.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Nolan
rp}

If these people continued to work on the fields the Great Bananna would have pity on them and so no-one would have to be sacrificed to an afterlife in a pagan hell. Please remember this and don't sacrifice these poor people by removing them from there positions as "foreign assistance"

rp}

[rp]
Nolan, I am so glad that we both want the same for these hard working men and women. I pray for them that the Great Banana shall once feel pity for them and they shall not live their afterlife in a pagan hell. I do not understand however why the Great Banana should not feel pity for them if we would free them: it is OUR choice, not theirs and I doubt that the Great Banana shall take them responsible for a decision they did not make.
Afterall I cannot stop saying how glad I am that we agree at this most important point.
Let all people pray that the Great Banana may feel pity for the fate of these men and women.
[/rp]

regards,

Aidun

[Nolan]

rp}

It is our choice, and it is our choice because we are the superior race, the race that has respect and knowledge of the Great Bananna, if we let these people free, most would shun the Great Bananna, it is part of our job as worshippers to give these pagans the push they need to be accepted by the Great Bananna, he can't just let everyone into his paradise, so as teachers and masters we must give these people a try.
Mr Mayor I thankyou that you to respect the term foriegn assistance, I resent the term "slave" being used as they will be rewarded in the after life.

rp}

Regards

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Nolan
rp}

It is our choice, and it is our choice because we are the superior race, the race that has respect and knowledge of the Great Bananna, if we let these people free, most would shun the Great Bananna, it is part of our job as worshippers to give these pagans the push they need to be accepted by the Great Bananna, he can't just let everyone into his paradise, so as teachers and masters we must give these people a try.
rp}

Regards

[rp]
Nolan, you are suggesting that they shall shun the Great Banana, but we don't know this for sure. The only way to know it for sure is to free the slaves.
Second: Why should we feel pity for these people, according to their afterlife, if even the Great Banana himself doesn't. Don't we risk the wrath of the Great Banana upon ourselves by denying the slaves the civil rights? I am sure that the Great Banana won't feel any pity for people of whom he knows that they secretly resist him. Only for true Apolytonians the Great Banana shall feel pity because they worship him. If the Great Banana feels any pity for them it can only be due to their current position. Please don't let the ones that deserve his pity become sentenced to the pagan hell. Please join to free these people from paganship that they may recieve the grace of the most beloved and wise Great Banana himself. Let us ALL pray...
[/rp]

Aidun