Opinion Poll: Do you support emancipation?

Kloreep · December 23, 2002, 16:39

Self explanatory. I think we need this to go along with the discussion thread (and it would be nice if we can keep discussion there, as it can be confusing when debates bounce around several threads).

Poll is set to last 5 days.

Aro · December 23, 2002, 17:05

Free them!

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 17:32

I still wonder what ASAP is...

Can anyone explain?

Kloreep · December 23, 2002, 17:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Aidun
I still wonder what ASAP is...

Can anyone explain?

As Soon As Possible.

Which is what I voted for.

GodKing · December 23, 2002, 17:44

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Kloreep
As Soon As Possible.

Which is what I voted for.

And you're right. All Apolytonians MUST be equal before law!

Check my comment at trhe discussion forum.

Aidun

Hot_Enamel · December 23, 2002, 18:12

Think of the slave handlers ?
The Whip makers ?

I vote no !

Shiber · December 23, 2002, 18:18

Definitely no. Aggie has shown me the way - the foreigners aren't humans, they're evil AI zombies. There is nothing wrong with enslaving the "AI-people". It's best that we replace our own, hard working men and women with these mindless zombies and let the human workers return to their families.

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 18:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
Think of the slave handlers ?
The Whip makers ?

I vote no !

Those undemocratic oppressors? The ones who ill-treat people who deserve freedom as much as you and I do?
Those who become rich over the backs of others who are too weak to resist?
Let them start a fair business! They should be lucky not to be condemned!

notyoueither · December 23, 2002, 18:29

Crack that whip!

This is a game, not life. There is nothing immoral about enslaving bits and bytes.

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Crack that whip!

This is a game, not life. There is nothing immoral about enslaving bits and bytes.

Immortal, immortal? Think of justice!

But don't forget that an uneducated workforce that works under miserable contitions is not able to produce much. giving citizenship to these people gives them a chance to get educated and be of more worth to our great society.

notyoueither · December 23, 2002, 18:47

You have a point.

However, as slaves they are free labour (duh). Our cities will grow of their own accord and they each have a maximum population due to finite amounts of food.

I would say it is better game-wise to keep the free labour to clean pollution and let our cities grow on their own.

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 19:18

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
You have a point.

Thank you, I knew it.

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
However, as slaves they are free labour (duh). Our cities will grow of their own accord and they each have a maximum population due to finite amounts of food.

I would say it is better game-wise to keep the free labour to clean pollution and let our cities grow on their own.

As a modern industralist I prefer well educated workers. As our glorious armies still conquer other nations, there keeps much to build. Slaves are in efficiënt and build slower. We can exploit the barren terrains around our new cities better AS FAST AS POSSIBLE so the cities can be of any use. They lie miles behind the other cities. With skilled workers this is better to be done than without.
Secondary: in wars many people die. The populationnumber of Hamburg fell in the war from 13 to 6 due to the artillerybombardments. The freed slaves can perfectly compensate this so the city can soon be as productive as it was before the war. Buiding improvements that serve the people such as temples and cathedrals should thus have priority in these cities.

notyoueither · December 23, 2002, 20:00

Exactly how are workers that cost us nothing inefficient?

Shiber · December 23, 2002, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Aidun
Slaves are in efficient and build slower.

You forgot to mention that they cost us absolutely nothing, while regular workers cost upkeep. Two slaves equal one domestic worker in work pace, and since two slaves cost you nothing while a domestic worker costs maintenance, slaves are superior when they come in quantity.
Soon we will finish improving our lands to the greatest extent possible within the game, and we'll only need workers to improve newly-conquered lands or to clean pollution. Then it would be time to retire our domestic workers and some of our slaves back to the cities, but not a moment earlier.

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 21:12

As I see that I cannot change your mind and you cannot change mine, we could only await the outcome of the poll. Let's see what the others that have not yet spoken shall say.

Anyway I like situations as these when the outcome is not so predictable as it usually is.

Aidun · December 23, 2002, 21:58

Who are the people that have recently voted? I'd like to hear your comments. You three do not share my opinion.

Even four now already let us debate please we're not for lunching in the senate.

I was wrong: five ...

Aggie · December 23, 2002, 23:20

Shiber, truly your conversion is a sign. The GREAT BANANA has informed me that these "slaves" are not slaves at all, but indentured servants, when in the future the have paid us back for food and upkeep and they have been deprogrammed from the AI, then we can accept them as citizens. The GREAT BANANA says this moment will come when all the work is finished and we have the "guest workers" with nothing to do. That will be his sign that they have worked off their debt to our nation.
Aggie

Beta · December 24, 2002, 00:01

[rp] Shiber - you were one of the reasons I joined the labor party. I would never have guessed you to be so fickle to swap idealogies.

I am dissappointed, nay crushed to see a fellow ALP member argue for slavery. [/rp]

Slavery... It just ain't right.

I vote for emancipation, and asap!!!

nz_upy · December 24, 2002, 03:17

KEEP THE SLAVES
that is all

Shiber · December 24, 2002, 05:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Aggie
Shiber, truly your conversion is a sign.

[rp]
Conversion? CONVERSION? I would never have ANYTHING to do with your so-called religion of demagogy!!
[/rp]

Donegeal · December 24, 2002, 10:45

[rp]
Apolytonia is Great. Truly a marvel.

Our work force is a large reason why we are so great. Would you really want to get rid of nearly 40% of the reason we are so great?

Emancipation is an a front to the Almighty Banana and everything that makes our country great. I choose now to pick up the reigns of where the Immortal Duddha left off with his visionary ARE (Apolytonian Racial Elitists)!!

Additionally, for those that want to spout about multi-cultural diversity, if you intergrate our slave population into our national population, we would loose our cultural diversity as the "freed" slaves would all become Apolytonian. In essence, there are only 50,000 Americans and 130,000 French people left in the entire world. If we "free" these people, we kill the ancient cultures of Abananaba!
[/rp]

Game wise, a move like this would be as smart as the idea Unortho had to change our government back to a Despotism. We currently have 92 native workers and 66 multi-cultural workers (1 Roman, 1 German, 2 English, 3 Greek, 5 American, 8 Babylonian, 13 Persian and 33 French). Intergrate our national workers. We are currently spending 92 LYTONS PER TURN to maintain them. In a little bit, work will be done except for polution clean up. Having 66 workers sitting around doing nothing but cleaning up polution will save us the need to build Recycling Centers and Mass Transit in all our cities (RC cost 2 LPT to maintain and so does MT. Multiply that by the number of cities (48) = 192 LPT) Plus the amount of time and shields that would be needed to combat a problem we already have a solution to.

Shiber · December 24, 2002, 10:50

Double post.

Shiber · December 24, 2002, 10:51

We'll still have to build MTSs and RCs unless we want to see the entire world gradually turning into a desert.

Aidun · December 24, 2002, 12:04

Quote:

Originally posted by donegeal
[rp]
Additionally, for those that want to spout about multi-cultural diversity, if you intergrate our slave population into our national population, we would loose our cultural diversity as the "freed" slaves would all become Apolytonian. In essence, there are only 50,000 Americans and 130,000 French people left in the entire world. If we "free" these people, we kill the ancient cultures of Abananaba!
[/rp]

[rp]
How can ancient cultures exist while they have no chance to express these in the current circumstances?
No temples, religion, theatre, newspapers, literature for slaves. How can you call their foreign-being to be culture. Culture can only be well developed among free people instead of oppressed!
[/rp]

Quote:

Originally posted by donegeal
Game wise, a move like this would be as smart as the idea Unortho had to change our government back to a Despotism. We currently have 92 native workers and 66 multi-cultural workers (1 Roman, 1 German, 2 English, 3 Greek, 5 American, 8 Babylonian, 13 Persian and 33 French). Intergrate our national workers. We are currently spending 92 LYTONS PER TURN to maintain them. In a little bit, work will be done except for polution clean up. Having 66 workers sitting around doing nothing but cleaning up polution will save us the need to build Recycling Centers and Mass Transit in all our cities (RC cost 2 LPT to maintain and so does MT. Multiply that by the number of cities (48) = 192 LPT) Plus the amount of time and shields that would be needed to combat a problem we already have a solution to.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shiber
We'll still have to build MTSs and RCs unless we want to see the entire world gradually turning into a desert.

As Shiber says, we cannot avoid building MTSs and RCs.
About the costs: our national income is 804 Lytons par turn. What in the name of the Great Banana is 92 Lytons par turn? The slave population accounts but to 41,7% of all workers: not the large majority.
When all slaves are freed, we they'll cost us 66 Lytons par turn, when they have been educated to be full workers, that is 8,2% of our current national income!
What on Abananaba are we talking about? 8,2%.
It can be even less if we let a part of them integrate in the societies of the newly conquered cities that have a lack of citizens to build up what was destroyed. They can work on farms in the surrounding area, or enter civil service as a scientist, entertainer or taxman. The last one lets us earn back what we have lost with the freeing of the slaves.
If these amounts are still too much, we can order our FAM by bill to stop import of expensive silks, ivory, or furs.
Financially there is no reason to deny the slaves their freedom.
Think of this: many nations would like to be in such a comfortable position as we are!

Aidun

Beta · December 24, 2002, 12:12

Aidun - YES!!!

(crowd chants in the background - aidun aidun AIDUN AIDUN!!!!!)

Aidun · December 24, 2002, 12:27

Thank you Betahound. Shall we make a bill of it? There is a majority...

Shiber · December 24, 2002, 12:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Aidun
our national income is 804 Lytons par turn. What in the name of the Great Banana is 92 Lytons par turn?

11.4% of our income, that's what we're paying to maintain our domestic workers!
Am I and Donegeal the only people who want to see this money saved? I honestly think not.

Quote:

The slave population accounts but to 41,7% of all workers: not the large majority.
When all slaves are freed, we they'll cost us 66 Lytons par turn, when they have been educated to be full workers, that is 8,2% of our current national income!

So you suggest that we pay even more?? If we replace all of our slaves with domestic workers like you suggest, we'll be paying 158 lytons per turn, which makes up 19.6% of our currnet income!!

Keep the slaves!

Mr Mayor · December 24, 2002, 12:30

Nobody cares bout the slaves, keep em now, let em do our jobs, construct our roads , grow our harvest, dig our mines , when the time come , when there sittin down doin nothing in our cites give them the rights they always wanted , if they cause trouble in the cites back to the work camps they'll go, slavery isnt all that bad , it all depends on how far we go. We shouldnt beat them or kill them. We feed and house them humainly, that should be enough. The govenment owns them as they own the land and the cites. In the end they will make the desion on weather to free them or not but if i ever see and fellow humain being not feed because of their race i will feed them and if they are beatin i will stop their oppressor. I vote for salvery, we just need to do it right.

Aidun · December 24, 2002, 12:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Shiber
So you suggest that we pay even more?? If we replace all of our slaves with domestic workers like you suggest, we'll be paying 158 lytons per turn, which makes up 19.6% of our currnet income!!

Sorry, you are counting wrongly. It is (92+66)/(804+92).
Otherwise you are counting the domestic workets twice.
the answer to this sum is 17,6%. we still keep 804-66=738 Lytons par turn as our National Income. Isn't that enough?