Thread Tools
Old December 29, 2002, 13:13   #1
Ben Williams
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 08:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 84
Non-wars
Right now, we're (the U.S. and Great Britain) in the process of bombing Iraq, we have been for over ten years, enforcing the so-called "no-fly zone." But I havn't seen any major revolts that would count as war weariness. Millitary actions like this seem to have no civ equivelant, you cannot do anything millitarity in civ3 without declaring war. What do you all think?
Ben Williams is offline  
Old December 29, 2002, 22:42   #2
Willem
Emperor
 
Willem's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,755
The main problem is that Civ III is based on individual nations. If building the UN were to allow more options, your idea might be more feasible. As it stands now though, there's no opportunity for those types of activities.
Willem is offline  
Old December 30, 2002, 00:15   #3
CrONoS
Civ4 SP Democracy GameApolyton UniversityNationStates
Emperor
 
CrONoS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 3,629
Ben Williams:
When U.S. was in war with VietNam, U.S. got big manifestation... mainly due by youth people.

But now people listen Britney Spears, Eminem, Jello and some stupid Rap/dance music. What is show in T.V. or Radio is some "singer" sing about cars/money/girls/men/superficial love or how he/she lived a bad childhood.
Individualistic and bad music "composed" or "singing" by stupid people.

How the youth can be "consciously awaken" if they listen television program like: "Friend", "Cop", "JackAss" etc....

Maybe Democracy and Capitalism just make "stupid culture" since with democracy, the mass are the king.. and with capitalism the goal is to make money. Making money is easier when you create something that can understand by most people.
Vulgar Sex/Superficial Love/Cars/Individualism is easier to understand and sell more then maybe some other thing... more "difficult" to understand or to feel.

It's funny to read Friedrich Nietzche, many thing he said about the future of humanity come true...

So maybe in Civ3, when go under democracy you got a big boost of culture at the beginning, but with time your "culture" go down...???
Maybe the main problem with our system, is the education... we want to create human able to work... I think it's the problem! We do not create a human with a soul, we create some human-machine... able to work, thinking in a rational/logical way(with no other way of thinking)...
A man creating by itself with the fire of this soul is not the goal of our education system...
maybe is better that way....

Now I shut my mouth... and wish a Civ with more Psychology/Social Engineering!!!! And wish you understand what I said, cause i'm french...
__________________
"The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad." G.K. Chesterton

"Not by force of arms are civilizations held together, but by subtle threads of moral and intellectual principle." - Russell Kirk
CrONoS is offline  
Old December 30, 2002, 07:53   #4
alva
Civilization III PBEMPtWDG2 Cake or Death?PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
alva's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
* you become, what you are *
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
alva is offline  
Old January 6, 2003, 20:27   #5
Rebel67
Settler
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19
What I dont like about war weariness is that you suffer from it even if you are trying your hardest to make peace, trying to approach the other side with diplomacy each turn. It should be clear that you are simply trying to defend yourself against agressive opponants, but the people still riot.

Didn't see the British having riots in WW2 did you, yet we were a democracy in a long war, our cities were getting bombed and we were fighting in many parts of the world. If this situation happened in civ 3 you would probably get awful penalties to your happiness.

Last edited by Rebel67; January 6, 2003 at 20:36.
Rebel67 is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 09:44   #6
Stuie
King
 
Stuie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
But WW2 only lasted a few turns, in Civ3 terms.
__________________
"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
Stuie is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 13:42   #7
FNBrown
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEM
Prince
 
FNBrown's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of the Sierra Nevada foothills
Posts: 527
Besides, the Germans were the aggressor in WWII, and in Civ3, you actually get a morale boost when someone declares war on you.
__________________
Infograme: n: a message received and understood that produces certain anger, wrath, and scorn in its recipient. (Don't believe me? Look up 'info' and 'grame' at dictionary.com.)
FNBrown is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 13:47   #8
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
I never knew about that moral boost. Are you sure it exists?
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 13:55   #9
Harovan
staff
PtWDG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Monty PythonC4DG Gathering Storm
Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
 
Local Time: 14:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
Quote:
Originally posted by FNBrown
and in Civ3, you actually get a morale boost when someone declares war on you.
I remember this legend, but never saw it proven. IMHO it doesn't exist.
Harovan is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 13:59   #10
Willem
Emperor
 
Willem's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,755
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph


I remember this legend, but never saw it proven. IMHO it doesn't exist.
Well you do fare better as far as War Weariness goes, so I guess that would be considered a morale boost.
Willem is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 13:59   #11
FNBrown
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEM
Prince
 
FNBrown's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of the Sierra Nevada foothills
Posts: 527
Yep... happened in my current game, actually. Monarch level, large map. The Ottomans declared war on me (totally unprovoked), and the next turn, I had several cities start celebrating "We love the king day."
__________________
Infograme: n: a message received and understood that produces certain anger, wrath, and scorn in its recipient. (Don't believe me? Look up 'info' and 'grame' at dictionary.com.)
FNBrown is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 14:01   #12
Willem
Emperor
 
Willem's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,755
Quote:
Originally posted by FNBrown
Yep... happened in my current game, actually. Monarch level, large map. The Ottomans declared war on me (totally unprovoked), and the next turn, I had several cities start celebrating "We love the king day."
Come to think of it, I had the same thing happen to me a couple of games back when the Carthaginians declared war on me.
Willem is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 14:07   #13
Raion
Prince
 
Raion's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 815
There are little tiny people in your computer game.

Raion is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 14:22   #14
Argos65987
Civilization III Democracy Game
Warlord
 
Argos65987's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally posted by FNBrown
...declared war on me (totally unprovoked), and the next turn, I had several cities start celebrating "We love the king day."
I have seen this effect in several of my games as well.
Argos65987 is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 14:27   #15
petemajor
Settler
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 15
Regarding unprovoked attacks while in democracy:

Yes, this is definitely the case... if another nation attacks you unprovoked while in democracy, your population rallies around - this frequently causes cities to celebrate WLTxD.

One time that this happened, we made peace a few turns later and my WLTxD was suddenly cancelled... go figure!

Pete
petemajor is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 14:30   #16
petemajor
Settler
 
Local Time: 13:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 15
So, if you attack (unprovoked) a computer player who is a democracy, could you be causing some of their cities to experience WLTxD?

Never thought of it in reverse before...
petemajor is offline  
Old January 7, 2003, 15:31   #17
Stuie
King
 
Stuie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
There is definitely a morale boost when the AI declares war on you. You also get less war weariness when fighting (and winning) an offensive war in enemy territory. It's when you start losing lots of units and (more importantly) cities that the WW really kicks in. I've been able to conduct very long, protracted wars while in Democracy by keeping the fighting away from home, and maintaining a consistent level of victories. That and a ton of luxuries helps, too.
__________________
"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
Stuie is offline  
Old January 8, 2003, 05:55   #18
Thoth
King
 
Thoth's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Toronto, UnAmerica
Posts: 2,806
I've been looking at the happiness boost for awhile now, and it appears that you get the benefit of 1 extra luxury resource when you have war declared on you. The effect lasts 20 turns (modified by war weariness depending on your government), or until a peace treaty is signed.
__________________
I live in Canada, which is a totalitarian state. - Ben Kenobi
Thoth is offline  
Old January 8, 2003, 06:10   #19
alva
Civilization III PBEMPtWDG2 Cake or Death?PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
alva's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:26
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
Quote:
I remember this legend, but never saw it proven. IMHO it doesn't exist.
It does exist, but it fades quickly, the effects are very shortlived
(not sure, bit I think you even get them in monarchy and despotism, maybe to a lesser degree.)
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
alva is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team