Great Leaders and other problems

[JohnDoe3815]

I have been playing Civ3 Play The World now for a couple weeks. I am currently playing 2 seperate games. One is with my brother on our home Lan and the other is just between me and the computer AI's. I have also tried to play with others over the net with game spy but that has failed to be do-able. I am currious though, I have seen it mentioned that you can play the game online without useing game spy. The question is how is this done?

Also I have noticed while play just against the AI's that I can never produce a great leader and I am now in the 1700's. This is real annoying because it will not allow me to produce armies until I produce a leader. I also believe you cant produce the pentagon untill you are able to build The Military Academy, which of course you cant build untill you have one sucsessfull army.

The other thing is that I cant seem to be able to build Hydro Electric plants or the Hoover Dam even though I have all the advances and my cities that I try to build it in have a river in it.

Does anyone know what may be the problem and has anyone else experienced this problem. If so we need to let the people at Firaxes know about it.

KenB

[Fried-Psitalon]

While I can't speak to the Hoover-Hydro problem, in reference to Great Leaders:

You generally have to *really* beat heads for a bit to do it. I've had an Elite unit win several engagements without spawning a GL. It's completely random, though I've noticed that the Militaristics seem to get them slightly more often, which would make sense.

Go pick a fight and bring lots of friends!

[Willem]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815

Also I have noticed while play just against the AI's that I can never produce a great leader and I am now in the 1700's. This is real annoying because it will not allow me to produce armies until I produce a leader. I also believe you cant produce the pentagon untill you are able to build The Military Academy, which of course you cant build untill you have one sucsessfull army.

The odds for getting a Leader aren't good. 1/16 without the Heroic epic, 1/12 with. So it requires a fair amount of luck.

As for your Hydro problem, I've been coming across a few posts of people with a similar problem. I'm beginning to think there's a bug for some people.

[DCMike]

Some games (okay, most) are like that. I've only played one game where I had a lot of Great Leaders. The last two games (and yes there were battles a plenty), I haven't seen any!

[JohnDoe3815]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
While I can't speak to the Hoover-Hydro problem, in reference to Great Leaders:

You generally have to *really* beat heads for a bit to do it. I've had an Elite unit win several engagements without spawning a GL. It's completely random, though I've noticed that the Militaristics seem to get them slightly more often, which would make sense.

Go pick a fight and bring lots of friends!

Trust me I have been doing a lot of battleing and I have been bringing lots of friends.

[Willem]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815
Trust me I have been doing a lot of battleing and I have been bringing lots of friends.

Well next time bring along a rabbit's foot, maybe it will help.

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Willem


Well next time bring along a rabbit's foot, maybe it will help.

but seriously, the above mentioned is not correct, militaristic civs got only better chance for promotions, not for leaders. but of course, more elites = more leaders, but the 1/16 stays the same.

[Drachen]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by JohnDoe3815
"Also I have noticed while play just against the AI's that I can never produce a great leader and I am now in the 1700's. This is real annoying because it will not allow me to produce armies until I produce a leader.

The other thing is that I cant seem to be able to build Hydro Electric plants or the Hoover Dam even though I have all the advances and my cities that I try to build it in have a river in it."



I haven't seen these problems myself. I built Hoover and had so many leaders in the modern age that I seriously considered using them for city improvements!

Better luck in future to ya

[HolyWarrior]

In the manual, it is stated that for military academy, you needed five barracks, not a victorious army. WTH changed it, and WTH didn't that person notice that Heroic Epic has the SAME requirement?

I edited the rules to change it back.

[vmxa1]

When you say you can not build the Hoover Dam wonder, what do you mean? Do you mean it is not in the list in the city you want to build it in and it has not been completed by another civ?
If so, did you have a prebuild going at the time? If so did you agument that construction with any other shield generating mechanism? You can not have a wonder build that has had shields added artifically to the prebuild. One way to check is to look at other cities and see if they show the wonder as an option. If they do that is the problem.

[Dimension]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815
Also I have noticed while play just against the AI's that I can never produce a great leader and I am now in the 1700's.

What are you saying? Is this your first game of Civ3, and you're in the 1700's without having any armies, or have you played several games of Civ3 and never gotten any armies?

I think my first game of Civ3 playing the Greeks (and doing a complete builder strategy on Warlord) was the only time I didn't get multiple leaders. I've gotten 20+ leaders a couple times with the Aztecs.

On lower levels, you may be at war constantly, but if you keep track, you're generally not actually fighting a large number of battles.

A few tips for getting leaders:

(1) Plan your cities so you have a couple barracks near your front, and keep roads built all the way to the border. You want your offensive units to always be produced as Veterans, and you want to get into enemy territory and get out and heal as fast as possible. It's not as important to have defensive units made at cities with a barracks, because the AI doesn't usually just start throwing tons of units at defended cities. Also, defensive units are upgraded a lot (there is a single upgrade path from Spearmen all the way up to Mechanized Infantry), and Elites become Veterans when upgraded, so you're really not going to generate many leaders defending (but it's really cool when it happens).

(2) Early in the game, you can keep a dark corner on your continent that will generate barbarians every few turns. When you're not at war, always keep a Veteran offensive unit next to the dark corner, and attack the barbarians that come out to get Elites.

(3) Veteran units that can attack twice will always become Elite if they win two battles in a turn. So, it's pretty easy to get all your offensive units Elite once you get to the Middle Ages. This is why Militaristic is mostly good for people who want cheap Barracks and a lot of attacking in Ancient Times (although I really like the cheap harbors, too).

(4) Do a lot of pillaging. If you can build a force on the border that can take a couple cities the turn you declare war, that's great, but if you're going to be spending time at war, you should first use your fast units to pillage. Don't move more than a couple in, or the AI will immediately contact you with a "your troops will move automatically" message. Just move a couple into enemy territory one turn, then the next turn move the rest in and pillage. The turn you declare war, or at least the turn after, you should be able to pillage their combat resources. It's really important to take away their iron & saltpeter, and pillage roads to other civs or cities with harbors where they might be trading. The AI does a lot of drafting when invaded, and you don't want them making Musketmen or other good defenders.

(5) The key to getting leaders is attacking a lot with Elite units. The extremely obvious facts are that an Elite never generates a leader when it loses, and a dead Elite can't attack again. Therefore, you want to be attacking inferior units, and that's why you want to pillage before the AI starts drafting. The AI will draft the best defender it can make. If you're attacking with Cavalry and they've got Conscript Spearmen, you'll easily get a couple leaders. Don't do stupid stuff like attacking fortified units on mountains. Don't attack a city from across a river.

(6) You don't get leaders if you already have a leader. I've seen people claim to have two leaders at a time, but I've never seen it. If it is possible, the chances of generating a 2nd leader are greatly reduced. When you generate a leader, you should try to use the leader immediately to rush something or build an army. If you can't use the leader the same turn, you should attack with your Veterans to try and get more Elites. If you need to save the leader (i.e. you're a few turns away from having the tech for Lighthouse or Sistine), it's a good idea to just sue for peace and put all your money towards research until you can use the leader.

(7) Always heal all your units. If you're attacking with units that aren't at 100% health, you probably didn't plan well. The ideal situation is to take a city in one turn and be able to make use of the roads to get all your injured units back to a barracks to heal that turn or the next.

(8) Get a big enough army. Plan what cities you want to take. Attack fast with the right number of units then sue for peace. This has been stated several other places on the forums. You want to set an objective and take it. Unless you totally outclass the civ you're attacking, you need to be fast and sign a peace treaty before the AI gears up for war. Don't make the mistake of just building units as fast as you can and then throwing them at the AI. If you don't have an objective, you'll just end up attacking until you run out of units, which isn't a good way to get leaders.

(9) A lot of people suggest that you use your Veterans to soften up defenses then attack weakened units with your Elites. If your opponent is inferior, you should just attack with the Elites. If your opponent is strong, it's something you need to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. For example, if there is a strong unit fortified in a city, you can attack with a Regular/Veteran, and there is the chance that the defneder will take a few points of damage, then your attacker will take damage and retreat. This leaves you a chance to attack with an Elite and win. This is only a good idea when a city is defended by only a few strong defenders. If there are many defenders, the city will just roate to the next one, and the damaged defender will heal if you can't take the city that turn. If there are many defenders, you're better off attacking with the Elites first and having a better chance of actually killing defenders. Your attackers won't always retreat when losing. In a worst-case scenario, trying to soften up the defense by attacking with a non-Elite will result in you losing a unit and the defender becoming Elite.

[Traelin]

Hrm I've never had an issue with getting GLs, but I will admit that I'm almost always in a state of war with somebody, and I always play Militaristic Civs.

Originally posted by Dimension


(6) You don't get leaders if you already have a leader. I've seen people claim to have two leaders at a time, but I've never seen it. If it is possible, the chances of generating a 2nd leader are greatly reduced. When you generate a leader, you should try to use the leader immediately to rush something or build an army. If you can't use the leader the same turn, you should attack with your Veterans to try and get more Elites. If you need to save the leader (i.e. you're a few turns away from having the tech for Lighthouse or Sistine), it's a good idea to just sue for peace and put all your money towards research until you can use the leader.

(7) Always heal all your units. If you're attacking with units that aren't at 100% health, you probably didn't plan well. The ideal situation is to take a city in one turn and be able to make use of the roads to get all your injured units back to a barracks to heal that turn or the next.

(9) A lot of people suggest that you use your Veterans to soften up defenses then attack weakened units with your Elites. If your opponent is inferior, you should just attack with the Elites. If your opponent is strong, it's something you need to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. For example, if there is a strong unit fortified in a city, you can attack with a Regular/Veteran, and there is the chance that the defneder will take a few points of damage, then your attacker will take damage and retreat. This leaves you a chance to attack with an Elite and win. This is only a good idea when a city is defended by only a few strong defenders. If there are many defenders, the city will just roate to the next one, and the damaged defender will heal if you can't take the city that turn. If there are many defenders, you're better off attacking with the Elites first and having a better chance of actually killing defenders. Your attackers won't always retreat when losing. In a worst-case scenario, trying to soften up the defense by attacking with a non-Elite will result in you losing a unit and the defender becoming Elite.

This is pretty good advice. It is indeed impossible to have two GLs at any one time. You can get more than one in a turn (I think my record is 5?), but you have to use up any GL before another one can be spawned.

[JohnDoe3815]

Originally posted by vmxa1
When you say you can not build the Hoover Dam wonder, what do you mean? Do you mean it is not in the list in the city you want to build it in and it has not been completed by another civ?
If so, did you have a prebuild going at the time? If so did you agument that construction with any other shield generating mechanism? You can not have a wonder build that has had shields added artifically to the prebuild. One way to check is to look at other cities and see if they show the wonder as an option. If they do that is the problem.

The option was never given to me and I never noticed untill the AI's started building The Hoover Dam.

I now believe I know what happened. I guess you are not allowed to start any wonder of the world projects while at war. This also seems to keep you from building certain buildings too.

On another note I am getting tired of starting a battle only to have location wisked away before I find out what happens. Is there anyway to stop this.

[JohnDoe3815]

I want to thank you for your helpfull advice, I will try it and see what happens. As for your question I am still pretty new to the CIV games but I do enjoy them alot.

Originally posted by Dimension


What are you saying? Is this your first game of Civ3, and you're in the 1700's without having any armies, or have you played several games of Civ3 and never gotten any armies?

I think my first game of Civ3 playing the Greeks (and doing a complete builder strategy on Warlord) was the only time I didn't get multiple leaders. I've gotten 20+ leaders a couple times with the Aztecs.

On lower levels, you may be at war constantly, but if you keep track, you're generally not actually fighting a large number of battles.

A few tips for getting leaders:

(1) Plan your cities so you have a couple barracks near your front, and keep roads built all the way to the border. You want your offensive units to always be produced as Veterans, and you want to get into enemy territory and get out and heal as fast as possible. It's not as important to have defensive units made at cities with a barracks, because the AI doesn't usually just start throwing tons of units at defended cities. Also, defensive units are upgraded a lot (there is a single upgrade path from Spearmen all the way up to Mechanized Infantry), and Elites become Veterans when upgraded, so you're really not going to generate many leaders defending (but it's really cool when it happens).

(2) Early in the game, you can keep a dark corner on your continent that will generate barbarians every few turns. When you're not at war, always keep a Veteran offensive unit next to the dark corner, and attack the barbarians that come out to get Elites.

(3) Veteran units that can attack twice will always become Elite if they win two battles in a turn. So, it's pretty easy to get all your offensive units Elite once you get to the Middle Ages. This is why Militaristic is mostly good for people who want cheap Barracks and a lot of attacking in Ancient Times (although I really like the cheap harbors, too).

(4) Do a lot of pillaging. If you can build a force on the border that can take a couple cities the turn you declare war, that's great, but if you're going to be spending time at war, you should first use your fast units to pillage. Don't move more than a couple in, or the AI will immediately contact you with a "your troops will move automatically" message. Just move a couple into enemy territory one turn, then the next turn move the rest in and pillage. The turn you declare war, or at least the turn after, you should be able to pillage their combat resources. It's really important to take away their iron & saltpeter, and pillage roads to other civs or cities with harbors where they might be trading. The AI does a lot of drafting when invaded, and you don't want them making Musketmen or other good defenders.

(5) The key to getting leaders is attacking a lot with Elite units. The extremely obvious facts are that an Elite never generates a leader when it loses, and a dead Elite can't attack again. Therefore, you want to be attacking inferior units, and that's why you want to pillage before the AI starts drafting. The AI will draft the best defender it can make. If you're attacking with Cavalry and they've got Conscript Spearmen, you'll easily get a couple leaders. Don't do stupid stuff like attacking fortified units on mountains. Don't attack a city from across a river.

(6) You don't get leaders if you already have a leader. I've seen people claim to have two leaders at a time, but I've never seen it. If it is possible, the chances of generating a 2nd leader are greatly reduced. When you generate a leader, you should try to use the leader immediately to rush something or build an army. If you can't use the leader the same turn, you should attack with your Veterans to try and get more Elites. If you need to save the leader (i.e. you're a few turns away from having the tech for Lighthouse or Sistine), it's a good idea to just sue for peace and put all your money towards research until you can use the leader.

(7) Always heal all your units. If you're attacking with units that aren't at 100% health, you probably didn't plan well. The ideal situation is to take a city in one turn and be able to make use of the roads to get all your injured units back to a barracks to heal that turn or the next.

(8) Get a big enough army. Plan what cities you want to take. Attack fast with the right number of units then sue for peace. This has been stated several other places on the forums. You want to set an objective and take it. Unless you totally outclass the civ you're attacking, you need to be fast and sign a peace treaty before the AI gears up for war. Don't make the mistake of just building units as fast as you can and then throwing them at the AI. If you don't have an objective, you'll just end up attacking until you run out of units, which isn't a good way to get leaders.

(9) A lot of people suggest that you use your Veterans to soften up defenses then attack weakened units with your Elites. If your opponent is inferior, you should just attack with the Elites. If your opponent is strong, it's something you need to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. For example, if there is a strong unit fortified in a city, you can attack with a Regular/Veteran, and there is the chance that the defneder will take a few points of damage, then your attacker will take damage and retreat. This leaves you a chance to attack with an Elite and win. This is only a good idea when a city is defended by only a few strong defenders. If there are many defenders, the city will just roate to the next one, and the damaged defender will heal if you can't take the city that turn. If there are many defenders, you're better off attacking with the Elites first and having a better chance of actually killing defenders. Your attackers won't always retreat when losing. In a worst-case scenario, trying to soften up the defense by attacking with a non-Elite will result in you losing a unit and the defender becoming Elite.

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Dimension
Don't attack a city from across a river.

why?

and JohnDoe, you can start wonders if you are at war, maybe the program has a problem with rivers. Maybe you build a new city on a river and look if Hoover is there. Or maybe you need factories to build Hoover? I don't know at this time I have at least 5 factories.

[Willem]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815


I now believe I know what happened. I guess you are not allowed to start any wonder of the world projects while at war. This also seems to keep you from building certain buildings too.

You were in Mobilization mode. During that time you are only allowed to produce military improvements and units.

[Switch]

And you can't switch back until you're at peace. However, I'm pretty sure that you don't have to go into mobilization mode when at war.....it's just advisable, unless you already have a strong military.

[mrmichaeln]

I'm one of the unlucky ones whose games seem to crash a lot, so I've frequently have to reload and attack again.

A healthy elite unit will definitely have the best chance of generating a GL.

I've discovered that in a battle, the sequence of which units are attacking almost always result in a different outcome.

For example, if you have a choice of whether to attack with an elite archer first, or with an elite horseman, I found that in my games, attacking with the archer first and then the horseman will not do anything, but attacking with the horseman first and then the archer may produce a GL.

Or, in cases where the pesky barbarians pop up, choosing either to fight them first or later or even in between after a move with an elite unit(s) fighting an enemy may or may not produce a GL.

I have never seen more than one GL being generated in the same turn though, but one game I had so many GL that I lost count.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino


why?

and JohnDoe, you can start wonders if you are at war, maybe the program has a problem with rivers. Maybe you build a new city on a river and look if Hoover is there. Or maybe you need factories to build Hoover? I don't know at this time I have at least 5 factories.

Because it gives the defender yet another 10% defensive bonus.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Switch
And you can't switch back until you're at peace. However, I'm pretty sure that you don't have to go into mobilization mode when at war.....it's just advisable, unless you already have a strong military.

No you don't, it's something you have to select. I don't like to use it myself, except as a last resort.

[mrmitchell]

So...the best chances for getting a GL is:

Pick a Militaristic Civ (for better chances of promotion to Elite)
Build Barracks ASAP (for already building Veteran units)
Build the Heroic Epic (upgrade from 1/16[6.25%] GL chance to 1/12[8.33%] GL chance)
Pick fights with everything weaker than you (for more chances of promotion & GL)

In my infinite wisdom I did not read thru the entire thread but I hope this helps.

[Acererak]

Originally posted by Dimension
Don't attack a city from across a river.

Quote:

Originally posted by SanPellegrino why?

Because defending across a river gives the defenders a 25% defensive bonus.

[JohnDoe3815]

Ok I understand that now tell me how do I get Nukes? I have the resources and the Techs required to build them, but for some reason they dont give me the option to build them. I can build nuculer subs. Is there some trick to that? There is one tech that I never got and am getting it now. It is the one that gives you helecopters.

[Acererak]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815
Ok I understand that now tell me how do I get Nukes? I have the resources and the Techs required to build them, but for some reason they dont give me the option to build them. I can build nuculer subs. Is there some trick to that? There is one tech that I never got and am getting it now. It is the one that gives you helecopters.

You need the following to happen:[list=1][*]You need to have discovered the Satellite tech.[*]You need Aluminum and Uranium resources[*]Finally, nobody can build nukes until someone builds the Manhattan Project.[/list=1]

[JohnDoe3815]

Originally posted by Acererak


You need the following to happen:[list=1][*]You need to have discovered the Satellite tech.[*]You need Aluminum and Uranium resources[*]Finally, nobody can build nukes until someone builds the Manhattan Project.[/list=1]

OK thats the problem, they dont tell you in the pedia that you need to build the Manhattan Project. I wish they could be more explanatory when it comes to things like this. Thanks.

[Acererak]

Originally posted by JohnDoe3815



OK thats the problem, they dont tell you in the pedia that you need to build the Manhattan Project. I wish they could be more explanatory when it comes to things like this. Thanks.

I agree. They need to update the Pedia for ICBMs and Tac Nukes to reference the Manhattan Project.

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Acererak

Because defending across a river gives the defenders a 25% defensive bonus.

Originally posted by Traelin

Because it gives the defender yet another 10% defensive bonus.

thx Traelin and Acererak, didn't know that, but what's the exact number?

[Willem]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino




thx Traelin and Acererak, didn't know that, but what's the exact number?

25%. If you'd care to check that yourself, you'll find the setting on the General Settings page of the editor.

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Willem


25%. If you'd care to check that yourself, you'll find the setting on the General Settings page of the editor.

thx, you're right again! Can I call you Willocyrix?

[Willem]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino


thx, you're right again! Can I call you Willocyrix?

I'm flattered, but unworthy! I'm just an obsessive modder who likes asking "What's that do?"