Space Lanes in MOO3???

Vince278 · December 31, 2002, 14:04

One of the things I've always liked about MOO1 & 2 (and set it apart from other games) is that movement in space was open and you could go anywhere (provided you had the range) instead of being channeled through space lanes like in Space Empires IV, Ascendancy, Pax Imperia II, etc. I've always thought open movement was more realistic (unless we just happen to discover space lanes

) and that space lanes were just easier to program. I guess I'm afraid MOO will lose its uniqueness in that regard.

There are other things about MOO3 I don't like (aside from the release date roulette

) but I'll give the game a chance before I sound off on other topics.

Alex-C · December 31, 2002, 14:10

Well, it is my understanding that in MOO3 you AREN'T restricted by the star lanes, but they merely allow ships with the right kind of engine to take advantage of a higher speed.

Vince278 · December 31, 2002, 14:38

That was also my understanding based on early reviews of the game but the strategy guide seems to indicate movement is exclusively by space lane. I hope you are right (I wonder what the speed difference was in space lane vs. free movement?). If it is entirely by space lanes (or not) it would be nice to be able to create your own space lanes (as in Space Empires IV).

LeTharg · December 31, 2002, 16:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince278
it would be nice to be able to create your own space lanes (as in Space Empires IV).

Having played MP SEIV (and enjoyed it), I hated it when other players started creating new space lanes. I would have all the choke points well-protected and boom. But it sure made the game more interesting. (Especially when I got the tech first

)

vmxa1 · December 31, 2002, 17:48

Could you not disable Warp manupulations? Was it part of stellar manipulation? I forget, but I do think you could remove that tech form the game in SE.

LeTharg · December 31, 2002, 18:36

You could remove warp point creation and demolition from the game and some SEIV MP games did just that. Personally I left it in the games I hosted because I thought it added drama--even if I got burnt. Intel and mines were also often omitted mostly because neither was well-done in SEIV.

SEIV had a lot of game options even without modding data files (and a lot more if you wanted to mod data files). I hope MOO3 has lots of options as well.

Craig P. · January 1, 2003, 06:47

In MoO3, the fastest travel will be by the starlanes. However, any ship that can travel by starlane will also be able to travel "off-road", though at a substantial penalty to transit time.

It has been suggested that there may be planets with no starlane connections, and that such planets will be valuable, though the BTs have been cagey about specifics.

Asmodean · January 1, 2003, 18:35

My guess would be that the New Orions live on a planet, accessible only by off-lane travel.

Asmodean

warden · January 2, 2003, 08:57

I don't like the space lanes. They are very constraining and make the game look more like a railway game than a space game. It's silly to have a 3D galaxy generator/interface and then force movement along a set of lines which make the game effectively 2D again. And there doesn't seem to be a good rationale for them - the game still has wormholes too.

MOO2 did all this quite well. The combination of range limitations and terrain features like black holes, nebulae and wormholes provided some interesting geography and bottlenecks without forcing everything onto arbitrary tram-lines.

Andrew

Skyjack666 · January 2, 2003, 18:31

At first I agreed with you. Now that I think of it, though, I am beginning to like it. Lets say the AI has you blockaded into your little corner of the galaxy. You still have a way out although slower.

Or...(a lot of speculation here), if you're planning a massive assault on enemy territory, maybe you can have a 'slow fleet' creeping slowly toward his rear areas (outside starlanes)while your 'fast fleet' shoots obviously and loudly straight down his throat (wihtin starlanes) attracting most of his attention.

sL|De · January 3, 2003, 00:06

agreed

Grumbold · January 6, 2003, 06:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyjack666
At first I agreed with you. Now that I think of it, though, I am beginning to like it. Lets say the AI has you blockaded into your little corner of the galaxy. You still have a way out although slower.

Or...(a lot of speculation here), if you're planning a massive assault on enemy territory, maybe you can have a 'slow fleet' creeping slowly toward his rear areas (outside starlanes)while your 'fast fleet' shoots obviously and loudly straight down his throat (wihtin starlanes) attracting most of his attention.

I would like you to be right, but I fear it would be more like other games where you catch sight of a slow moving enemy. They're still going to take 3 turns to reach you despite being close, so by the time they arrive every ship you possess is ready to give them a warm welcome.

moomin · January 6, 2003, 08:22

I should bloody hope so. Remember RftS? That's what happens when you don't have incoming scan - the game becomes a massive genocidal planetary bombfest.

Grumbold · January 6, 2003, 09:48

Oh yes RftS was a huge pain in the ass before you were able to spot fleets. Then again once you could spot incoming fleets all the other problems became more apparent.

I just mean that while it should be an advantage to the defender to spot things incoming they should only be able to concentrate local forces, not survive against every threat with just one defence fleet that can respond to everything. To many games have the 'killer stack' design and it gets boring.

booklord · January 6, 2003, 12:49

Suprisingly enough, the strategy guide mentioned very little about travelling outside starlanes. Suggesting it may never be tactically advisable to attempt a sneak attack like that.

Possibly you can see the ships coming in plenty of time to concentrate your forces to defend the world.

Possibly ships not travelling via starlanes incur a horrendous maintenance cost.

It may be impossible to resupply or fuel ships that are not directly connected to your empire via starlanes.

kalbear · January 7, 2003, 02:09

Well, one thing that the strat guide DID emphasize was the surprise factor. Unless you go for this tech, it's easy to get the jump on your opponent and make them not know that you're coming at all. Heck, in some examples they had a hard time detecting ships WHILE IN THE SAME SYSTEM. There's a whole stealth/counterstealth area of the tech tree that makes it an interesting game.

I figure that chokepoints and defenses in place will be more important than the knowledge that someone's coming for you.