Between a rock and a hard place - Page 2

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
But if you guys get overrun don't blame us.

All right. If North Korea invades my country, I won't complain.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
If States like NK want to develop nukes there's not much you can do about it.

So you're okay with Japan and Taiwan arming themselves in response to this?

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Secondly I go to China and Russia and tell them to go tell the North Koreans to knock that **** off.

They already are telling the NKs that. But they aren't going to tell them too hard, because they're friends.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger

All right. If North Korea invades my country, I won't complain.

Very funny.

Look I don't know if you're Canadian or not or whatever. But it's obvious you have connections back to the homeland.

Secondly after a certain amount of time my browser stops displaying pictures, smilies, and avatars on Apolyton. If you close it and restart it it will return back to normal. That's why I originally asked if you were from Korea because I didn't see your Canadian flag and you don't speak like some casual Canadian observer who doesn't have any emotional ties to the situation.

I appreciate your comedy skills however.

DinoDoc · January 13, 2003, 03:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
And they won't agree to that.

I'm sorry but very real consequences (cutting off food aid, etc.) for deciet are needed to avoid going through this exact same dance the next time NK feels the need to extort more aid than they were recieving. I don't see how that is too much to ask.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

So you're okay with Japan and Taiwan arming themselves in response to this?

I'm not OK with NK getting nukes. I think they're one of the most dangerous countries on the planet. And if NK gets a bunch of nukes then I wouldn't blame Japan or SK too much for building a few of their own. Not that Japan probably doesn't already have a few bombs ready to be assembled if need be...

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger

They already are telling the NKs that. But they aren't going to tell them too hard, because they're friends.

Then they need to speak louder.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:06

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm sorry but very real consequences (cutting off food aid, etc.) for deciet are needed to avoid going through this exact same dance the next time NK feels the need to extort more aid they they were recieving. I don't see how that is too much to ask.

I'm not saying it's too much to ask; I'm making a prediction as to how NK will react.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:07

So what would you do genius? (Besides going for the default answer of blaming Bush for the world's problems).

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Very funny.

Look I don't know if you're Canadian or not or whatever. But it's obvious you have connections back to the homeland.

Secondly after a certain amount of time my browser stops displaying pictures, smilies, and avatars on Apolyton. If you close it and restart it it will return back to normal. That's why I originally asked if you were from Korea because you don't speak like some casual Canadian observer who doesn't have any emotional ties to the situation.

Do I?

I thought I was being rather dispassionate, actually. I refrained from calling the US imperialist, belligerant, etc. I simply said what I thought of the current ploy by the US gov't: that it's shortsighted and does not take into account the attitude of NK towards the rest of the world.

DanS · January 13, 2003, 03:12

Just don't give them anything. Let them bleet on about a sea of fire or whatever. Do international sanctions.

DinoDoc · January 13, 2003, 03:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
that it's shortsighted and does not take into account the attitude of NK towards the rest of the world.

Dear Leader (the only person who matters) seems to be quite insane as even you admit. So it is kind of hard to take his views into account.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:14

I am a Bush supporter but I am on the record as saying that the Axis of Evil speech was probably the worst thing he has ever done.

Walk softly and carry a big stick is the wisest policy ever created.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
So what would you do genius? (Besides going for the default answer of blaming Bush for the world's problems).

I would have stayed in negotiations 3 months ago. I thought that general idea would have come through in my first post. And I don't really care about who to blame on this one, because the situation is serious enough that it's more important that it be resolved than to win an argument. This has the possibility of being a lot more dangerous to your and my safety than Osama ever was, and certainly than Saddam is.

DanS · January 13, 2003, 03:15

He's bluffing. And if he isn't, then we might as well have this fight now, not in the future.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:17

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Dear Leader (the only person who matters) seems to be quite insane as even you admit. So it is kind of hard to take his views into account.

No it isn't

a) He hates everybody else
b) He's afraid that the US is going to invade NK
c) He's too vain to ever admit he was wrong
d) He wants other countries to give him things like food and oil

The solution is to always make veiled threats, but be willing to negotiate. Because if you take a hard stance in public and then have to back down he owns your ass forever.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:17

Actually a quiet Clintonesque (blowjobs, etc) type of negotiation would work well.

If there is one thing I have learned in my life it's that when you deal with angry nutjobs, the best thing to do is to calm them down, and that provocation actually is what they want to do because nothing makes them happier than blowing their stack.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:18

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
Just don't give them anything. Let them bleet on about a sea of fire or whatever. Do international sanctions.

And? Problem remains. The clock is ticking. They develop more and more warheads. They sell some. China and Russia won't go along with sanctions, so the NK eke out their existence long enough to cause real problems.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:20

I don't agree that China and Russia won't go with the sanctions. China is rathar embarrassed by this whole thing.

DanS · January 13, 2003, 03:20

China and Russia will pressure them to stop well before that time.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:21

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
He's bluffing. And if he isn't, then we might as well have this fight now, not in the future.

You really want to fight NK? You find a situation like that preferable to one in which they really slowly develop a small nuke stockpile?

And yes, if you are going to fight NK, then you sure as hell better do it now rather than 10 years from now. Because 10 years from now they might well be dropping nukes on LA.

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:22

Ironically, the cave busters dropped in Afghanistan were developed for use in North Korea.

DinoDoc · January 13, 2003, 03:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
China is rathar embarrassed by this whole thing.

I doubt that China really cares otherwise they would be putting much more pressure on NK to stop than they are.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:23

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
China and Russia will pressure them to stop well before that time.

I'm not as optimistic as you. And the fact that the US is slowly offering them more and more while refusing to actually "negotiate" might tell you that they are coming to the same conclusion that I have.

DanS · January 13, 2003, 03:25

The clock is ticking on NK, not us. That's why they've tried to ratchet this up, post haste.

" And yes, if you are going to fight NK, then you sure as hell better do it now rather than 10 years from now. Because 10 years from now they might well be droping nukes on LA."

You've got to be prepared and willing to fight at any time for the deterrent to be valid. But I'm more advocating an ignore approach, letting it be known that when they are really serious about giving up their nukes to go back to the Agreed Framework, then we're all ears.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:26

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Dear Leader (the only person who matters) seems to be quite insane as even you admit.

"Even I"?

I wonder if Apolyton still has a record of me calling NK insane from a year and a half ago...

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:26

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I doubt that China really cares otherwise they would be putting much more pressure on NK to stop than they are.

Well they can't do it in public because then that makes China look even worse.

Remember, since they are China's *****, it all has to happen behind the scenes. I also don't think China would like to be seen as working under American policy.

We've seen this same kind of back door diplomacy with those **** head Saudis. Disagree in public but agree behind closed doors.

KrazyHorse · January 13, 2003, 03:27

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
The clock is ticking on NK, not us. That's why they've tried to ratchet this up, post haste.

" And yes, if you are going to fight NK, then you sure as hell better do it now rather than 10 years from now. Because 10 years from now they might well be droping nukes on LA."

You've got to be prepared and willing to fight at any time for the deterrent to be valid. But I'm more advocating an ignore approach, letting it be known that when they are really serious about giving up their nukes to go back to the Agreed Framework, then we're all ears.

You really think that ignoring them will work? And why would it be so hard to go the table and let them look like they got what they wanted? Because saying that they have to agree first is not a substantive gain.

DinoDoc · January 13, 2003, 03:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
"Even I"?

It took you that long to see that?

Ted Striker · January 13, 2003, 03:29

How old is that **** head anyway?

Assassination an option? Any unrest within the borders?

At least a nasty case of jock itch would be enough to knock him out of his wits.