Thread Tools
Old January 13, 2003, 02:52   #1
rjmatsleepers
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
rjmatsleepers's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,773
How long does a cease fire last?
I thought a cease fire lasted 16 turns. But yesterday, after I captured Paris, the French offered a cease fire which I accepted. I completed my turn and in the next French turn I got a message saying the cease fire had expired - less than one complete turn.

Was I just unlucky or is this a well known AI "cheat"?

RJM at Sleepers
rjmatsleepers is offline  
Old January 13, 2003, 08:58   #2
DaveV
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
DaveV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: USA - EDT (GMT-5)
Posts: 2,051
The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops.

To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.
DaveV is offline  
Old January 13, 2003, 12:49   #3
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveV
The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties.
Lol, succinctly put.
DrSpike is offline  
Old January 13, 2003, 14:22   #4
Gatekeeper
Mac
King
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: United States of America
Posts: 2,306
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveV
The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops.

To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.
I've found that when the AI civilization does that to you — i.e., letting its peace treaty "expire" with you due to lack of contact or whatever formula determines that — you can attack it w/o any damage to your reputation. The same goes for cease-fires, and I've had a "one-turn" cease-fire end w/it expiring during my turn on a rare occasion.

Gatekeeper
__________________
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius
Gatekeeper is offline  
Old January 14, 2003, 02:17   #5
ramses II.
Prince
 
ramses II.'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Essen, Germany
Posts: 331
A cease fire or peace treaty lasts until you press enter ....
__________________
There are no silly questions - only silly answers
<a href="http://www.sethos.gmxhome.de">Strategy Guide</a>
ramses II. is offline  
Old January 14, 2003, 05:10   #6
Bloody Monk
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession GamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Bloody Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 2,508
Quote:
Originally posted by ramses II.
A cease fire or peace treaty lasts until you press enter ....


It seems to especially happen that way when YOU really need a respite.

Monk
Bloody Monk is offline  
Old January 14, 2003, 07:10   #7
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveV
The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops.

To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.
This situation - peace, but no ability to demand tribute - seems to be certain indicator of the AI's intent to sneak attack on the turn!

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old January 14, 2003, 15:44   #8
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
This situation - peace, but no ability to demand tribute - seems to be certain indicator of the AI's intent to sneak attack on the turn!
SG[1]
Yes, that has been postulated and accepted as a quasi-truth.
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old January 14, 2003, 16:44   #9
Six Thousand Year Old Man
Civilization II Succession Games
King
 
Six Thousand Year Old Man's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ad Rock
Posts: 2,665
Yet another reason to keep in close contact with the AIs via the diplomacy screen... you get an early warning when the sneak attack is coming. Plus, you may provoke war... and it's always better to do that during your turn then during the AI's.
__________________
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
Six Thousand Year Old Man is offline  
Old January 18, 2003, 11:00   #10
Caesar the Great
Emperor
 
Caesar the Great's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 5,117
never trust the AI, they have no reputation
Caesar the Great is offline  
Old January 18, 2003, 15:30   #11
Gatekeeper
Mac
King
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: United States of America
Posts: 2,306
Actually, the AI's reputation *is* affected from time to time when it violates cease-fires and peace treaties ... but it seems to only take a hit when it does so within a few turns of such agreements.

Gatekeeper
__________________
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius
Gatekeeper is offline  
Old January 18, 2003, 15:44   #12
Bloody Monk
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession GamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Bloody Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 2,508
And if you have a senate to consider, it seems like you don't get overruled as often against an AI that has repeatedly broken treaties, cease fires. If that is true then the AI does take reputation hits.

Monk
Bloody Monk is offline  
Old February 24, 2003, 15:04   #13
My Wife Hates CIV
Civilization II Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Local Time: 14:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,587
I have found that the AI will break cease fires more often when it is allied with other AI civ's against you. The more allied AI civs it has (against you) the more often it will break them and in less time.

I think the AI is doing what probably most of us do. If I'm attacking an AI civ and all of a sudden they throw in a cease fire it can slow an attack. Contact another CIV which is currently at war with the first AI and the message I always get first is 'Lets teach them a lesson' or something like that.

If you are not at peace or allied with someone who is at war with the CIV just pay someone off to declare war with them. Pop back into diplomacy and the question 'teach them a lesson' comes up.

So, this maybe is what the AI is doing. ?? dunno, just a guess.
My Wife Hates CIV is offline  
Old February 24, 2003, 15:19   #14
Six Thousand Year Old Man
Civilization II Succession Games
King
 
Six Thousand Year Old Man's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ad Rock
Posts: 2,665
Sounds reasonable, MWHC.

The trick to diplomacy is waiting for the time when you can't demand tribute or demand withdrawal (of course, you can't demand withdrawal until the first turn after a peace treaty). At that moment, you contact their enemy and agree to declare war. That way, the breaking of the peace happens on your turn, not the AI's.
__________________
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
Six Thousand Year Old Man is offline  
Old February 24, 2003, 17:05   #15
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
Yes, always better on your turn, Since the AI gets a sneak attack bonus against you, and you don't against them.
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old March 2, 2003, 15:22   #16
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally posted by Caesar the Great
never trust the AI, they have no reputation
Just don't trust them ever,that should do.
After 1750AD they'll try everything to keep you at war.
First there are the enumerous treaties to contain your agression(even if you haven't ever fought 1 battle or did the smallest harrasing of any civ)
The never ending sneak attacks and tech thefts

and this afternoon I saw something that really looked sureal:
I'm at war with the Carths and the Aztecs. I sign a Cease fire with the Aztecs(more is impossible because I haven't yet build UN) and a few turns later after conquering some Carth cities and killing a lot of their units I get a diplomatic meeting:
"C: We are fighting a mutual enemy: "the Aztecs" and are winning(but I bet they haven't met them the last 25turns) ,declare war at the Aztecs at once."
I knew the AI's are used to doing such things against me but with me against an other AI???

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old March 3, 2003, 19:31   #17
War4ever
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
War4ever's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
remember this, if your rep stinks, a ceasefire against agressive nations mongols, zulus, isn't worth the paper its printed on! or any other nation for that matter...

bottom line, the ai will sneak attack you when it has the best option to do so...as a rule i thought it was 14 turns if your rep has no black marks against it , provided they attacked first.
__________________
Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!
War4ever is offline  
Old March 3, 2003, 19:41   #18
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally posted by War4ever
if your rep stinks,
read " If your power is supreme"


Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old March 8, 2003, 05:15   #19
Jeremy Buloch
Prince
 
Jeremy Buloch's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apparently on the computer
Posts: 463
I've found that every time I think a cease fire wont be made its made and every time I think it will be made its made, The AI is very Ironic.
-J.B.-
Jeremy Buloch is offline  
Old March 16, 2003, 20:35   #20
Reinhard-Baer
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: !!PARTY!!
Posts: 45
Hmm I always thought a cease-fire holds till the AI decides to contact you again. From my observation one time I signed a ceasefire and moved every troops away from the enemy, the outcome: it holds till the end of the game.
Next situation:
After the treaty I accidentally moved a unit next to one of my enemy about three turns later, he contacted me and whoops expired.
Strange but true
Reinhard-Baer is offline  
Old March 16, 2003, 23:51   #21
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
Reinhard-Baer: I'm glad someone is using my pseudonym from the third AOW PBEM
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old March 17, 2003, 04:03   #22
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Yup - a CF lasts exactly as long as the AI chooses it to.

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old March 17, 2003, 08:28   #23
Reinhard-Baer
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: !!PARTY!!
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by The ANZAC
Reinhard-Baer: I'm glad someone is using my pseudonym from the third AOW PBEM
Yup after reading all these interesting discussion threads I got the desire to register and participate but couldn't find a suitable name. While browsing your game-threads I found this name and I like it, it's very cool. Well now when I'm think about it I might have asked you first for permission but unfortunately I can't find the game threads anymore and I couldn't remember your name either, hopefully I didn't violated your copyright.

Hey you did a very good job as Reinhard Baer, invading France but unfortunately you weren't allowed to continue hmm perhaps I should post in this thread and demand that you should be installed again. Might cause a lot of confusion and would be very funny
Reinhard-Baer is offline  
Old March 17, 2003, 11:37   #24
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
Yeah I know, it took a few weeks for the confusion to settle down
No copyright, you can use it, actually I prefer you do
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team