Thread Tools
Old January 15, 2003, 01:01   #121
cia
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Far away from here
Posts: 612
Frightening powers Frogger? In Canada you can be thrown in jail for SAYING something 'improper' and non-politically correct.
__________________
Pax Superiore Vi Tellarum
Equal Opportunity Killer: We will kill regardless of race, creed, color,
gender, sexual preference,or age
cia is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:04   #122
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
a) I disagree with hate speech legislation
b) It's not for saying something "improper". When you put quotes around something in this context, it implies that you've read the law and are quoting from it
c) My country's not the one that held thousands of people without charging them for months
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:04   #123
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
Quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai


Canada never went running to the US to protect it during the Cold War. In fact, the US was the one who was asking Canada and other Nato nations to help. I can't recall anytime when the other Nato nations asked the US to contribute more.


So many places I could with that one.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:05   #124
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Hah. Your police have frightening powers, but you haven't sold your freedom? I'll bear that in mind.
The government looked so doe-eyed when they asked for such powers. How could we refuse such cuteness?!?
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
DinoDoc is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:06   #125
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
Floridation
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:06   #126
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Oh, and d) my country's also not the one that seems to be of the opinion that a person's birthplace is enough to merit special treatment if they ever come to the attention of the authorities
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:07   #127
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
So many places I could with that one.
I agree. That one is too easy.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
DinoDoc is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:07   #128
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
The government looked so doe-eyed when they asked for such powers. How could we refuse such cuteness?!?
I know the administration attempts to hide its nefarious intentions behind the antics of the Simian in Chief, but you got to look beyond that.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:11   #129
cia
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Far away from here
Posts: 612
Frogger, when someone is declared an unlawful combatent that is a charge.
__________________
Pax Superiore Vi Tellarum
Equal Opportunity Killer: We will kill regardless of race, creed, color,
gender, sexual preference,or age
cia is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:12   #130
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
a) that's not what I was referring to
b) no it isn't
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:16   #131
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
I believe he's referring to the immigrants that we detained shortly after 9/11.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:17   #132
Kingof the Apes
Civilization III Democracy Game
Prince
 
Kingof the Apes's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Call me KOTA
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
a) that's not what I was referring to
b) no it isn't
Are you talking about the illegal immagrents who were arrested? If so, they did break laws, but their treatment is pretty crappy.
__________________
I'm going to rub some stakes on my face and pour beer on my chest while I listen Guns'nRoses welcome to the jungle and watch porno. Lesbian porno.
Supercitzen Pekka
Kingof the Apes is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:19   #133
cia
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Far away from here
Posts: 612
Frogger, my question is what does Canada do when someone is illegally living in the country? And what is the legal definition of hate speech?
__________________
Pax Superiore Vi Tellarum
Equal Opportunity Killer: We will kill regardless of race, creed, color,
gender, sexual preference,or age
cia is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:19   #134
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
They weren't arrested, they were detained. For several months. That's unconstitutional.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:26   #135
cia
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Far away from here
Posts: 612
Ramo, are you talking the illegal immigrants or the Afghan fighters?
__________________
Pax Superiore Vi Tellarum
Equal Opportunity Killer: We will kill regardless of race, creed, color,
gender, sexual preference,or age
cia is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:28   #136
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Kingof the Apes
Are you talking about the illegal immagrents who were arrested? If so, they did break laws, but their treatment is pretty crappy.
They were held, without charge, for periods approaching 6 months or a year. That was against your own laws, and if not then your country sucks ass.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:29   #137
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by cia
Frogger, my question is what does Canada do when someone is illegally living in the country? And what is the legal definition of hate speech?
If they are illegally here then they are arrested, charged, given a speedy trial and deported or not. Yours were held for months without seeing a lawyer. Police state tactics. Thuggery. Despicable.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:32   #138
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
The question of what you did and are still doing with the prisoners of war in Guantanamo is a different story. You are breaking international law, not domestic law. Just as bad, but nothing to do with your police's powers (unless and until such time as said treatment is applied to those arrested/detained/captured inside your country).
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:36   #139
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
Quote:
Ramo, are you talking the illegal immigrants or the Afghan fighters?
Illegal immigrants. Of course the indefinite detention due to the "illegal combatant" label for the Taleban fighers was certainly wrong, but not necessarily unconstitutional.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:37   #140
Drake Tungsten
Deity
 
Drake Tungsten's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
Quote:
You are breaking international law
No we're not.

Quote:
Police state tactics. Thuggery. Despicable.
__________________
KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!
Drake Tungsten is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:38   #141
cia
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Far away from here
Posts: 612
Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?!
Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?
__________________
Pax Superiore Vi Tellarum
Equal Opportunity Killer: We will kill regardless of race, creed, color,
gender, sexual preference,or age
cia is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:41   #142
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
Court decision in 2000. Hold on, I'll look up the case.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:45   #143
The Mad Monk
Emperor
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally posted by Ned


Alexander's Horse, this reads like a liberal/leftist wish list. The question really should be is why the rest of the West shifted so strongly to the left after WWII while the US did not.
I think that has a lot to do with the McCarthy hearings and other aspects of the 'Red Scare'. Americans tend to see things as black and white rather than shades of grey; the Scare had the effect of giving socialism a significant negative image with us, regardless of whether it was justified or not.
.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
The Mad Monk is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:45   #144
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
So it's okay to just grab people off the streets of your country, not let them see a lawyer and disappear them into a black hole for 6 months? Your own Constitution says that it's unacceptable. If they broke the law in entering your country then you try them under the law. Your police had no legal authority to detain them without charging them.

Quote:
No we're not.
Yes you are. You do not have the authority to declare unilaterally who is and who is not a POW. Those captured on the battlefield have a prima facia (sp?) case for being POWs, and need to be given some sort of formal hearing to determine their status. If it is determined that they are POWs, (irrespective of whether or not they engaged in illegal acts against the US) then you have the obligation to give them a fair trial and treatment similar to one which would be given to a US citizen or member of the US military. If you cannot convict them then you have the obligation to return them to freedom within a reasonable timeframe after the war they were captured during is over. There are also limits on the length and conditions of questioning you can subject them to.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:46   #145
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
Actually it was in 2001 (hmmm time flies). Zadvydas v. Davis.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:49   #146
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by cia
Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?!
Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?
I was under the impression that your police have restrictions placed on them for all those which are in their custody. That's the way it works here, honey.

Amendment 5, US Constitution:

"No person...shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:52   #147
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by cia
Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?!
Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?
Just those held by your police. Your laws apply to all those within the geographic boundaries of the US. Noncitizens are entitled to the same rights and freedoms as you are unless specifically stated. You can't murder an illegal immigrant, neither can the authorities detain him indefinitely without charging him.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:53   #148
The Mad Monk
Emperor
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger


Everyone else lost more, relative to their pop. We lost 60 000 with a pop. a tenth of yours, and we were all the way across the ocean from the fighting. Never mind how light you got off in WWI...
I don't think we got off light at all, considering how we didn't start the damn thing in the first place.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
The Mad Monk is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:54   #149
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
and we did?
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old January 15, 2003, 01:56   #150
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:24
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Court decision in 2000. Hold on, I'll look up the case.
Is Ex parte Quirin still valid law?
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
DinoDoc is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:24.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team