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Old January 21, 2003, 10:00   #1
Fried-Psitalon
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Don't Blink, and other tips for MP Elimination Games
Yes, your favorite MP theorist is at it again. (If I'm not your favorite MP theorist, please hit the back button now. Nya.)

Today I thought I'd discuss what seems to be the largest number of MP games- Elimination games. Part of me thinks this'll be a great idea because everyone will start getting much better. Part of me also realizes everyone else getting much better means I have to find new tricks. In all honesty, here are the guiding principles behind many of my favorite tactics, but the actual details of making them work perfectly may have been omitted.

One caveat: Due to time constraints, this post is NOT proofread- even once. I apologize for missing words or spelling errors; I'll edit later.

Well, to begin, the first good rule of MP:

DONT PLAY IT LIKE YOU WOULD A SP GAME.

If you've ever played a game all the way through on at least Emp. difficulty in SP, you have a feel for how Elim games need to be played. Every single move must be carefully planned well in advance. Generally, depending on the Civ you use, you either need to adopt one of two strategies: Offensive- seek out and kill every other Civ as quickly as possible; or Defensive - make yourself such an imposing target that a marauding player leaves you for last, and you take advantage of that to build a huge army unhampered and kill him first.
You may wish to sit somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, depending on which Civ you've picked. Also, make no bones about it: This is not a friendly game where developing points wins. You are at war every second of Elim games, with everyone you meet. Trust someone only if it really is to your benefit and theirs to leave each other alone - and even then, keep your border under close watch.

He Who Lives By The Sword Kills Everyone Else First, or, How to Take an Offensive Stance in Elimination

If you're going to go for the throat right from the starting gun, you'll need to be playing the right Civ for it. The best "Kill" Civs are probably Egypt, Aztec, Zulu, Japan, Persia, and possibly Carthage. (No, Rome and Iroquois are not on this list - you'll see why soon.) All of these Civs can either immediately field a significant military threat, or can do so in one research - which is usually the amount of time needed to get a barrack out anyhow. Please note that Japan can see horses when it starts, and field Horsemen (not an immensely powerful unit, but they can field them very early, comparatively) after one research, making them an underestimated "Kill" civ.

Go West, Young Man

Start by building a warrior/scout for each of the four major directions available to you. If you're on a coast, build three. If you're lucky enough to be on a peninsula or a land bridge, build 1 or 2. Have these fellows climb mountains and hills as much as possible. When you find an opposing Civ, DO NOT LET THEM KNOW. Humans are not computers- they prepare differently when they know someone knows where they are. Instead, try and skirt your warrior/scout around the edge of their Civ's border and get a feel for the size of what you're dealing with - WITHOUT letting them know you're there! If you are discovered, by all means wade in and start pillaging - you're not here to be nice, and you've found a target to kill, so that warrior's job is done. If your warrior is not discovered, camp out on a mountain nearby and keep watch- always nice to know when they might send a scout/warrior your way, and intercept it.

A Sword Today Gets You A Spleen Tomorrow

When you've built your second city, take a good look at which one gets more food, and which one gets more shields. Foodville should keep making settlers; Mineralville should start making your attack unit- whatever that may be. Don't send your units out one or two at a time, though. Wait for your warriors to find a target, and continue gathering troops. (You may need them to deal with barbarian incursions anyhow.) Once you have a target, launch your units in groups of eight - most players won't have sufficient defensive force on their border cities to deal with 8 of anything, much less your strongest attack unit. If this isn't the first Civ you've killed this game, you may wish to take more, as the player is alerted to your threat. If you have troops to spare, consider sending a second force in towards another location - they don't have to actually attack, but as long as the human knows they're around, it'll draw off reinforcements from your primary attack.

Raze Your Hand If You're Sure!

The classic mistake Offensive players make is to keep the city they capture. While you're at it, change the city's name to "100 percent corruption here, please come take this city and kill me." Raze that city to the ground, and delight in the weeping of the women! Not only will you get a free worker or two for your trouble (a thousand and one uses, including lookout towers) but you're freed of a major liability. Generally, the city you capture is going to be very vulnerable to the next guy to come along- and that's an embarassing way to go "out" in an Elim Game.

"C'mon, Saruman....is this all you've got?" or, How to Build a "Helm's Deep" Imposing Defense That Will Make Marauding Civs Look For Easier Opponents First

Apologies for the poorly remembered quote from the newest LOTR movie. Defensive civs work on the theory that if they can make themselves look too big to bite off long enough, they can amass one whopper of an army early on and then descend on whoever's left later, after the aggressive civs take bites out of each other. Generally this approach favors Rome (remember, Rome needs TWO researches and iron just to get Legionnaires, which are actually only truly effective in larger numbers - we're not talking defensive all game, just defensive early so that you can build a large force, which fits Rome to a T,) Greece, Carthage, Celts (see Rome, above, although you can be a little more free) and possibly Germany. (They start with spearmen, can immediately grab Iron Working, and even if they don't find iron, the Great Wall isn't far off, and being able to build a gazillion archers from day one is still a gazillion archers, 2 attack or not.)

No Child..Er...City... Left Behind.

A defensive Civ player has to violate one rule that most Civ players will balk at- city spacing. No city should be more than one turn's spear-march from any other. This enables you to throw at least two more city garrisons into a city that is about to be attacked with very little notice. The two cities that just emptied out get their new garrisons from one (or both) of the cities further from the front, and so on. Being able to shift your defensive front around quickly as absolutely vital to a strong Defensive gameplan.

All Roads Lead to Rome...or Carthage....or Athens

Many people misunderstand the power of Carthage- Num Mercs are powerful, but it is the ROADS of Carthage that make it so unassailable. One or two Num Mercs are obnoxious, but beatable. It's the four others who show up instantly when needed that can drive you crazy. Every city should have roads connecting it to two others, at all times. (See above.) Usually this requires putting a city on constant worker production early on, to keep up with what is (hopefully) moderately aggressive expansion- after all, you're putting cities at most 3 squares apart, so you should have a lot of them?

Hail to the King, Baby!

Relying on your road networks and compact city structure, you can ignore many things you otherwise would not early- and go straight for Monarchy. This allows you to produce units at much higher speeds when you ARE ready to go on the offensive (conveniently, this usually happens around the time you are starting out as King anyhow) and increases your research speed (corruption is cut, remember) for snagging needed techs you may have missed out on early- like Iron Working and Construction.

It's All About Appearances

Remember, when Joe Offensive finally gets a look at your cities, if he sees two in sight, and borders which suggest a third - and all of them have roads to them - AND they all have walls around them...well, it's enough to make anyone blanch. If you've gotten lucky enough to turn your Monarchy into a research cow that snagged you the Great Wall, and sited your cities wisely, you're pretty much done setting up your defense. While Joe Offensive slams his units into your walls like the ocean against the land, start producing your counterattack force inward towards your capital. (Your capital IS near the middle, land allowing for it, right?) When you see the invasion force start to slack off - or become an "as they arrive by road at a constant speed/number" situation, consider launching your counter assault. If they were kind enough to build a road to you, use it. Otherwise, consider building your own with all your infrastructure workers, and set all of your road-connected, tile developed (you should have had time by now), monarchy-boosted cities into war mode and begin producing veteran archers, legionnaires, swordsmen, or mercenaries, and enjoy your march down the road of victory.

Enjoy, feel free to comment, and good luck in adapting these strategies to your own play!
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Old January 21, 2003, 19:00   #2
Swissy
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What version of the game are you playing. You do not get the option to raze a city in a MP game, and cannot even abandond one in an elimination game. Any city that has not had an improvement built in it will auto-raze when you take it. I have not kept a record, but I think any city that has made pop 3 will not auto-raze.

This makes the choice of city important. If you cannot find a newer city (I reccommend knowing the first six city names of most civs) go for one that you can hold onto. That city on the hill with walls may not be an easy target. But, take it and you will have an easier time holding it. Always have a half dozen spears/hoplite/mercs to occupy the captured city. If their is no barracks or walls, build them quickly.

My favorite elimination tactics involve using ships to make my way to lightly defended coastal cities. I have been highly effective with this, so much so that I build as few coastal cities of my own. Another thing I use is embassy as a spy. Since most elim games are played on a tiny/small map, city investigation can usually be done at a resonable cost.

I have only been eliminated twice, once and China at the hands of a Persia who found iron very fast and once as Carthage to Ottoman Saphi (very long game and we were the last two). I have found three things to be crucial:

1-Barracks in every city, the full heal every turn is a lifesaver.

2-Every city on a hill, every city builds walls. That gives you a 100% defensive bonus. Spears cannot hold versus Immortals if you don't.

3-Catapults save lives. I recommend a min of 4 in each attackable city.
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Old January 22, 2003, 05:23   #3
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How soon do you think Monarchy should be aimed for? I find it quite expensive to research and more than often not worth bottering with (but that's SP, I haven't had the chance to try MP yet...)
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Old January 22, 2003, 05:28   #4
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BTW, great work!
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Old January 22, 2003, 11:09   #5
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Great advice! Most of which I sort of (more or less) deduced on my own. Even so, it's good to see it spelled out.
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Old January 22, 2003, 20:37   #6
Swissy
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoonWolf
How soon do you think Monarchy should be aimed for? I find it quite expensive to research and more than often not worth bottering with (but that's SP, I haven't had the chance to try MP yet...)
As Carthage I go for it right after I get the big three, Bronze (Mercs), Iron (swords), and Mathematics (catapults).

The benefits of Monarchy are worth it for Carthage. Since you cannot range to far from your base for luxuries, the three content pop from the garrison is needed. It also gives you the ability to build the Hanging Gardens, more content people. And of course, the ability to get extra food from shielded grassland to grow those cities; more gold, more free unit support, added defensive bonus.

Sometimes I can cut the cost by trading tech with a player not adjacent to me. Most Japanese or Aztec players will give you Ceramonial Burial and Warrior Code for mathematics.
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Old January 23, 2003, 09:21   #7
Fried-Psitalon
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Swiss, it's too bad we can't both play Carthage sometime...we take completely different perspectives on how to play the Civ. And I have no idea what I was thinking with the razing thing; I'm not editing it for honesty's sake, but that goes to prove that when you're working, you should be WORKING....

About Monarchy: Surprise surprise, Swiss and I do it differently. I grab Bronze Working (if I need to explain why, press the back button now) and then go straight for Monarchy. Once you're in Monarchy, Iron Working is a 4-turner at any research level if you've been expanding properly, and I want to capitalize on my workers and the tiles they've been improving as quickly as possible. I count on the imposing visage of a Num Merc behind walls to keep folks at bay until then- I'm not a big fan of catapults either, since I'd rather just have another Numidian Merc. Swordsmen are spiffy, but I've won lots of games without them. I find most people go straight for Iron Working, so I can sometimes trade for it early while everyone is burning time on that, and go for something else.
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Old January 24, 2003, 15:50   #8
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Iron & Iroqois & omitted tactics
Don't underestimate the value of iron in elimination.

Naturally, It can help in an attack, but it has a great defensive quality as well. If you are not Carthage or Greece (who should both probably be banned from elimination for such an unfair advantage), it will defend just as well as a spearman, except that for only 10 shields more you gain a 3 (4 if your Persian) attack, which is also a great Defensive deterrent. Yes those swordsmen excell at attacking the stack after a big city onslaught(since they won't leave the city square) and then healing with the barracks for anything that's left.

Also, if you wait to get iron, you miss out on a golden opportunity.......building your city right on the iron hill. A city on a hill is great, but what a shame to realize that you built on the wrong hill, and are going to take longer now to road hills instead of grassland/plains. You might also note that your iron is harder for an enemy to pillage and then foritify on, if it is inside the walls of a city. (consider this with horses too)

If you wait to get iron, you also forfeit the opportunity of knowing if your nieghbors have a supply right by them or moreso if it's right between you two and you have to race for it. How can you pretend to know where to expand your cities or who to be extra weary of if you don't know where the strategic resources are?

Relying on a trade to get iron is questionable at best and VERY dangerous at worst. Unless the rare sitatuation you mentioned above occurs where there is actually a trade in both of your interests...don't count on getting it by trade. If you have ironworking showing when the negotiation screen pulls up then they don't and you know who the easy target is. Too many players will just notice that "hmmm i see iron on my side of the negotiating table.....that means he doesn't have it.......I'll just tell him I don't have it either and then send my swordsman army up to his weakest city to apologize."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't believe Iroquois got so shafted. If you are gonna put Celts up there, you better put Iroquois. Sure the Celts and Iroquois both get 2 movement and can now defend cities spaced 6 squares away. Except that for only 10 more shields I get 2 Mounted warriors instead of 1 checkered referee with a sword.

And if Celts get no Iron? Well...goodbye. If Iroquois get no horses.....well there's always iron and vice versa. With scouts as well, the virtual Guaranteed of a 3 attack is very valuable. That is also what helps the Egyptians, although their horses are just cheaper and less attacking, and egypt gets no scouts. Again I argue, Iroquois got the short end of the stick in the post above. Scout may actually be able to investigate borders without being caught ( and remember he too can pillage and may even get it pulled off since he looks less dangerous)

The only....only....questionable features about Iroquois that I can find is maybe the scout will accidentally find a far awat hut that is a city and is hard to defend, and second that jaguars eat horsemen for lunch. Yes the mounted's tech goes a little in its own unique direction, but at least you will warrior code, which with cerem b will get to monarchy soon. And for surviving to the late game, did I mention the advantage of expanded borders for cheap temple culture too see big armies coming?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another textbook elim move that has been omitted here, is the techinque of seeing two cities and then moving your big army into view at a point which straddles them both. This will force a decision on them, and make them split their forces. You can also, then move towards one ,and retreat to the other, since they probably just moved the reinforcemnts out. Killing outside of walls is much nicer, and will leave a poorly defended city afterwards. This will also allow you to pillage the roads from the first city you "fake" committed to" so that reinforcements do not arrive at the second city in time.




All, considered, I think Iroquois have been shortchanged here.

Last edited by Sperricles; January 24, 2003 at 15:58.
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