Asking Allies to leave territory = war?

rippk · January 21, 2003, 15:13

Here's the situation:
I am at war with the Carths, the Indians are willing to join with in a military alliance against the carths (and give me 25gold per turn to boot!). As I am about to finish off the the cathaginian cities on a peninsula, the indians dump a huge mass of troops (cavalry and elephant) right next to the carth city I just took.
As there is nothing left for the Indians to do on the peninsula, I ask them to leave my territory or declare war. They declare war.

We have no right of passage agreement or mutual protection pact. WTF?

Here's the question: Is there anyway I could have prevented war? Was there another way to get them out of htere (considering the only route back to India was by boat)?

For those interested, I used all my available resources (and lost a couple units) to kill them before they did damage. I also completely shifted by conquest plans so that I would obliterate India. Thank god we had set the turn timer to 'forever', otherwise I wouldn't have been to move all my units to bear on India!

Argos65987 · January 21, 2003, 15:43

I have found that when an AI civ is giving me gold per turn and not getting something per turn (like resource or luxury) that their opinion of me goes down. In other words, the declaration of war gets him out of having to pay you 20 gpt for the alliance.

As for your question specifically, depending on the level you are playing, and your relative strength to another civ seems to be a major factor on whether they leave peacefully or declare war. To prevent the war, it might have helped to wait a few turns to see what India would have done as far as moving those units before telling them to get lost.

Jaybe · January 21, 2003, 15:46

Strategy forum stuff.
You say that you had no RoP or MPP with India, yet you say you are in an alliance with them against Carthage. AI allies will move through anyone's land to get to an enemy. They may have been after Carthage, or maybe they were going to attack you anyway. Did you have a weak military compared to India?

My primary suggestion is to reload the turn you told them to get off your property and see what happens if you don't give them the eviction notice.

wilbill · January 21, 2003, 17:03

Yeah, sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. I'm not sure that the fact that they happened to show up just after you conquered the city indicates an ulterior motive on the AI's part. They did have to come by sea, after all.
When you sign a MA, your AI ally doesn't look at it as just helping you out - it's going to try to capture cities/eliminate the enemy same as you. I've had allies show up after I've bombarded an enemy city for a couple of turns and had it set up to fall next turn - only to have the "ally" waltz in and take the city. Stuff happens.
Be patient about taking revenge and don't ask for MA's if you're not sure you need them.

Jaybe · January 21, 2003, 17:13

Also, sometimes it appears that AI troop orders are NOT reviewed each and every turn. Sometimes they just continue with what they were previously ordered to do, and it is difficult to figure what might give those orders an interrupt. (What I'm trying to say rippk, is: Perhaps they were ordered to land and those orders were not interrupted by your taking the Carth city).

rippk · January 22, 2003, 12:31

So there is no implied right of passage with military alliances? That was my original question, though I didn't state it very well!

I guess it was foolish to enter in to an Alliance with them, but I needed the money, as I was buying libraries and barracks as I swept thought the Carth home island. Good while it lasted anyway!

Worked out pretty well, civ layout on my home continent (from south to north) is Me (korean), chinese, indians. I was originally going to take the Chinese first, then Indians. But this works too. In fact, I have the Chinese battling the Indians now. This weakens the Chinese and the Indians. I take Indian Cities, and I also take Chinese cities (after they have been taken by Indians, 'cause China sucks). I'm shooting for cities that have resources, and holding my own ground. not a bad start to global conquest, just have to time my city takeovers well.

Jayme, This is a MP game, so no going back. Besides, that just wouldn't be ethical! lol

Inverse Icarus · January 22, 2003, 13:06

theres no implied rop in a military alliance, but the AI will march through your land if i needs to, whether you want it to or not.