The AI

ellie · January 27, 2003, 05:02

Hiya

Ive been playing this game for a little while now and have been as totally hooked as i was when i played civ 1, and civ 2 origonally.

Although all of them are superb games, i found Alpha centauri to have problems with the same area as the civs..the AI. Often the factions do utterly stupid things and the diplomacy can be really illogical (such as a pact sister of hundreds of years whom you have helped a lot suddenly annuling and declaring vendetta for no reason within 2 years).

As a result i find it hard to get a challenging single player game even on transcend level unless i deliberatly give myself awfull land or something similar.

Does anyone know if their are any mod packs available that tweak the AI or any balanced custom factions that i could use to replace the weaker current factions?? (morganites and believers are awfull in my games).

Thanks

Ellie

Jamski · January 27, 2003, 06:56

Hi Ellie, I reccommend using a really bad custom faction with minuses in all fields, or trying some of the challenges. Try a OCC with Miriam on a huge transend map. That'll keep you out of trouble. Unfortunately the AI is stuck the way it is though. I'm working my way down to one base on Trancend at the moment. I can win with 3 bases, but not with 2. Them I'm going to try with one...

-Jam

CEO Aaron · January 27, 2003, 13:49

Definitely try improving your Miriam and Morgan games. These two factions represent the extremes of two different, but equally effective play styles, and I think your game will see a large improvement overall when you can win consistently with both of these factions.

The AI, in my opinion, isn't really there to provide a challenge to an experienced player, it is merely a barometer for those who _haven't_ mastered the game yet. If you can't beat the AI on transcend, you're still not finished learning the game. Once you've learned, its time to take your skills to the multiplayer arena, where the only true competition can be found.

Perhaps, if my wish is granted, and Firaxis publishes a SMAC II, they will code an AI that won't paint itself into a corner. But until that day, its multiplayer, or challenges, or just screwing around.

Datajack Franit · January 28, 2003, 19:21

Morgans- self-eliminated using free market
Believers- if they don't have a chance to steal/trade tech in the early game, count them out

Mr. President · January 29, 2003, 02:46

You can do what I like to think of as making the factions "mechanically" harder - give enemy factions +2 Talent, +2 Probe, +2 Morale, etc.

Archaic · January 29, 2003, 03:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Morgans- self-eliminated using free market

*Cough*Bullshit*Cough*

Jamski · January 29, 2003, 04:03

*More coughing*

Morgan is THE builder faction. If you can't win with Morgan then forget it.

*Coughs to death*

-Jam

Archaic · January 29, 2003, 05:53

Quote:

Originally posted by War of Art
*More coughing*

Morgan is THE builder faction. If you can't win with Morgan then forget it.

*Coughs to death*

-Jam

Well....I wouldn't necessarily say *that*, as it really depends on playing style, but yes, saying that Morgan is worthless because of his natural FM style is just sticking your head in the sand.

Xian · January 30, 2003, 21:59

How can morgan be THE builder faction with no bonuses in Industry?

The best builder factions would be the Hive and drones.

Mayeb the best rush builder factions, but when i rush build with morgan it usually ends up with military units and such, not facilities

Mongoose · January 30, 2003, 22:05

ellie · January 31, 2003, 04:41

Well on classic smac i always won easily with university.

And win with deidre.

But on smax i played the pirate and made the biggest bal*s up of it imaginable.

The save file should be up as an example of how to not play ;p

Ellie

Jamski · January 31, 2003, 05:28

Ah, Ellie, the trick with the Pirates is to expand and expand and expand like crazy

Try it, I find it very funny to have about 80 bases

Oh, on the subject of things that are very funny, Hive as best builder faction. Good joke

-Jam

Alinestra Covelia · January 31, 2003, 08:37

Well, the Hive is a very effective builder faction, but for fundamentally different reasons than the Morganites.

With Morgan, I get the impression that you just rush build things a lot. This requires a good amount of micromanaging, and frequently you purposefully build a weak military unit and then upgrade it to Clean powerful unit next turn.

The Hive on the other hand can be lethal with a good crawler base. Their industry bonus means that their overall costs are reduced, which in turn makes it that much cheaper to rush things. They don't have to worry about police questions because putting three units in a base may calm as many as nine citizens (high enough police and non lethal) so they can focus on building.

Of all the momentum factions, I'd say the Hive has the best chance at being an effective builder. They favor expansion just as well as the Pirates do.

Jamski · January 31, 2003, 08:45

With the Hive I don't make enough energy for :
a) Psych allocation
b) Labs
c) Cash

Seriously, I find the most important thing to have in SMAC is energy. With enough energy everything is possible. The cash is best for rushing SP's, especially the ones that then give more cash. Also I find the Hive bad at rapid expansion due to efficiency problems. And building three units to keep the peace is OK, but so inefficent. What else could you have built in that time ? A network node? 2 Formers? a Crawler or 2? All of these will continue to give value for the whole game. And that's why Morgan rules, IMHO.

-Jam

Alinestra Covelia · February 1, 2003, 13:47

Playing as the Hive, you reach a certain level where you don't actually rely on Energy for Cash and Labs anyway. The Hive needs a bit of time to take off, but once you get the right techs, specialists become very important.

ellie · February 2, 2003, 21:47

I swear the one faction who always does well is deidres!!.

Ive found a nice balance now

i gave each faction 1 more growth efficiency and research (edited factions).

And put them on the ultimate builders map.

As a result sven is expanding like mad and the data angels are kicking the usurpers butts!!!.

Its nice to not be flying away with it, would have preferred to have another difficulty level where the ai plays "smarter" tho.

And biggest annoyance, once you are unsurpassed its almost impossible to keep peace. The only long lasting pact ive ever kept (kept it from 2150 till the end!!) is with the consiousness, she seems really easy to get on with.

Ellie

Kirov · February 3, 2003, 08:39

Instead of giving bonuses to the AIs, you can try the "switch the faction" challenge. Every 50 or 75 years switch to the worst faction in the game. Imagine to be defeated by the same faction you have been previously playing... I found this challenge very amusing.

Oh, and IMHO, Hive is very good faction with his bonuses and EFFIC immunity. With Police State and Planned he has no penalties besides -2 ECON (-1 Energy in every base, what a hit *rolleyes*). The only problem is that he can't choose FM, but bigger bases mean more specialists, as Alinestra pointed out.

Major Guz · February 7, 2003, 07:41

The hive can choose FM, but not democracy politics.
Deirdre is the one not able to choose FM (for the -3 planet i guess).
But I indeed like the hive for its impunity for inefficiency (making run under PoliceState/Planned very attractive).

Kirov · February 7, 2003, 09:01

Of course, Hive can *choose* FM, but it would be very, very stupid, leaving him with 0 ECONOMY. To get that wonderful +2 ECON bonus he would further have to pick Wealth and trigger GA... Pointless.

Jamski · February 7, 2003, 09:10

If you want to do that, why play with the Hive? Although it can be fun to play every faction against its type.

-Jam

Jac de Molay · February 7, 2003, 14:58

Quote:

More coughing*

Morgan is THE builder faction. If you can't win with Morgan then forget it.

*Coughs to death*

-Jam

PK's are better IMO. You can pop-boom at will, push pass those hab limits in no time, then switch over to FM. The +1 econ you pick up from Wealth is not as useful if you're hampered by hab limits. Lal can do just about anything morgan can do, and is not nearly so hampered.

Capt Dizle · February 7, 2003, 15:16

In my opinion the Hive, Believers, Spartans and Morgan are map dependant factions. Morgan needs an isolated position to perform at his best. The other three needs someone close by to pick on.

This leaves the University, the PKs and Gaians as the most balanced as each can fight or build effectively.

To make a more challenging game custom place your faction of choice in the middle of a continent surrounded by warlike factions and set up the others in isolated spots.

And add a little rule like, blind tech stag, can't keep captured bases or build colony pods until you a)reach turn 100 AND b)discover IA. That leads to a more interesting game for sure.