Thread Tools
Old January 27, 2003, 08:57   #1
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Should I christin(Baptise) my kid
My little boy Joseph was born on 4th Jan and i don't know whether to have him christianed(I should learn to spell it first).

I'm pretty much an agnostic but my Mother and Wife want it.

I can't see teh point and think its a little bit hypocritical, or should I just shut uo and have it done.
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:00   #2
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
His birthday's the day before mine!

I dunno, my cousin had a naming day for his kid, not a religious thing but still got the family and friends together for a social occasion to meet the baby etc.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:02   #3
Sarxis
Rise of Nations MultiplayerAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
Emperor
 
Sarxis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
I'd say just have it done, though it means nothing. Baptism without faith is a bath.
Sarxis is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:03   #4
orange
Civilization III Democracy GameNationStatesDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
orange's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: It doesn't matter what your name is!
Posts: 3,601
Well, I personally wouldn't - don't see the point - but if your wife wants to why not? Holy water won't hurt him...

...will it?
__________________
"Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

"I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui
orange is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:11   #5
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by orange
Well, I personally wouldn't - don't see the point - but if your wife wants to why not? Holy water won't hurt him...

...will it?
Well i did notice 3 numbers on his head......
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:27   #6
Jack the Bodiless
King
 
Jack the Bodiless's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Converted underground reservoir tank.
Posts: 1,345
What's the procedure for getting a kid baptized nowadays?

Do the parents need to declare that they believe in God, or attend church for a while?

And they're supposed to select "godparents" who are (at least theoretically) responsible for ensuring that the kid grows up to be a "good Christian". Do the godparents have to swear that they believe in God? And if they do, but they know that the kid isn't going to be raised as a Christian: is it OK if they knowingly lie about their committment to that?

Normally I'd have no objections to "going through the motions" at a Christian ceremony. But baptism involves such blatant lying and hypocrisy that I think I'd have problems with it.

It's not like a wedding or a funeral, where the purpose of the ceremony isn't specifically religious. This one consists entirely of ritual lying while making false promises to indoctrinate a child into a religion that he is currently not capable of choosing voluntarily.

Quite a few Christians don't approve of it.
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:46   #7
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
This is the problem, I hate the lying and hypocrisy.

I dislike the church alot (C of E) in this case but the catholics and all the other protestant ones are just as bad. Standing up and saying will instruct him in the ways of the church and GOD is a blatant lie as i will bore him stupid telling him how much crap teh church talks.

I only know 1 potential religious Godparent (the rest wouldn't know their new testamnet from their old.) ans she's catholic so that might be a problem.
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 09:59   #8
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
This one consists entirely of ritual lying while making false promises to indoctrinate a child into a religion that he is currently not capable of choosing voluntarily.
Here at least, Baptism tends more to be saying that you are there for guidance on the Christian faith. And regards the voluntary status of it, thats what Confirmation is about.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:00   #9
Al'Kimiya
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 81
My parents never baptized me, saying they wanted me to choose for myself. This is off course very wrong, since I won't do it unless I have to and will burn in the flames of hell as a sinner...
__________________
får jag köpa din syster? tre kameler för din syster!
Al'Kimiya is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:06   #10
SlowwHand
inmate
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameGameLeague
Deity
 
SlowwHand's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
It's only hypocritiical if yo have yourself baptized.
Since it obviously isn't that big a deal to you, why not make the wife happy, for a change ?
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
SlowwHand is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:08   #11
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
It's only hypocritiical if yo have yourself baptized.
Since it obviously isn't that big a deal to you, why not make the wife happy, for a change ?
As she is married to me how could she be more happier
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:10   #12
SlowwHand
inmate
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameGameLeague
Deity
 
SlowwHand's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
Ok, your mother.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
SlowwHand is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:19   #13
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ok, your mother.
My Mother would blame the chicken if i was caught molesting one
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:28   #14
XarXo
Prince
 
XarXo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: of the "I agree"
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger


Well i did notice 3 numbers on his head......
Mmmm, take photos of your family, friends, neighbours and yourself. If you see some strange light effects that increase on time better change your legacy legal note
__________________
Signature: Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts
XarXo is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:33   #15
mrboo123
Rise of Nations MultiplayerC4DG VoxCiv4 SP Democracy GameNationStates
King
 
mrboo123's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,716
In the Mormon Church, we wait until the kids 8 till we have them baptise the kid.
__________________
Former President, Vice-president and Foreign Minister of the Apolyton Civ2-Democracy Games as 123john321
mrboo123 is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:40   #16
SlowwHand
inmate
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameGameLeague
Deity
 
SlowwHand's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
You go to a site packed with Atheists, to ask for validation of Agnostic/Atheist beliefs you hold ?

Change the scenario a little.
If you found out you were to die today, you'd have no qualms knowing that your wife and your mother were planning an elaborate Church ceremony, complete with not merely a headstone, but a full size statue of a religious nature, emgraved with somethng, I don't know, like "Here Lies Stinger. Finally Home With His Creator".

After all, they're believers, and shouldn't feel like hypocrites. Right?
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
SlowwHand is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:46   #17
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
It won't do any harm and it might make your mother and wife happy.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:50   #18
SlowwHand
inmate
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameGameLeague
Deity
 
SlowwHand's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
He doesn't care if they're happy. He said that already.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
SlowwHand is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 10:56   #19
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
Well, then he is sounding very stubburn and why ask us if he's already made up his mind?
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:04   #20
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
I haven't made up my mind at all.

I just thought there must be some heathens amongst you who had had their kids baptized.

Lets face it in the end my wife and Mum are gonna have a veto over any decision i want
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:13   #21
Edan
Warlord
 
Edan's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 234
I think this is a decision you and your wife need to make together. Thats the only advice I can give.
Edan is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:27   #22
Jack the Bodiless
King
 
Jack the Bodiless's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Converted underground reservoir tank.
Posts: 1,345
Quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
Lets face it in the end my wife and Mum are gonna have a veto over any decision i want
Will they insist on dragging the kid off to church every week, and enrolling him/her into Sunday School and so forth?

If not, then it's your wife who has to tell a pack of lies to the vicar. And the godparents, of course.

But I still don't know if you will be asked about your own beliefs. I know many vicars won't marry a non-Christian in church (even to a Christian).

You might be able to use it as a bargaining counter: "I'll go along with this, if YOU agree not to make the kid go to church or Sunday School".
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:27   #23
Dr. A. Cula
Warlord
 
Local Time: 18:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 261
I think you should. Reasons:

1) Make your wife happy (very important)
2) Make your mother happy
3) Avoid long, useless discussions with zealots who will refuse to understand why you didn't do it
4) Just in case...
__________________
The monkeys are listening.
Dr. A. Cula is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:35   #24
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
My 2¢.
I think it better to have a religious upbringing in full awareness of its flaws, than to have an areligious upbringing and deride it without understanding it.

Quote:
Standing up and saying will instruct him in the ways of the church and GOD is a blatant lie as i will bore him stupid telling him how much crap teh church talks.
Don't say that, agree with the priest or vicar a wording that is suitable and acceptable to you.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:38   #25
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless

Will they insist on dragging the kid off to church every week, and enrolling him/her into Sunday School and so forth?

If not, then it's your wife who has to tell a pack of lies to the vicar. And the godparents, of course.

But I still don't know if you will be asked about your own beliefs. I know many vicars won't marry a non-Christian in church (even to a Christian).

You might be able to use it as a bargaining counter: "I'll go along with this, if YOU agree not to make the kid go to church or Sunday School".
My Mum stopped going to church after my Dad died and my wife doesn't go so they wouldn't make him go. Its more a tradition thing.

The other(agin hypocritical thing) is that church schools are generally better than stae ones and it is a big help to get them in if they are christened
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:47   #26
Jack the Bodiless
King
 
Jack the Bodiless's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Converted underground reservoir tank.
Posts: 1,345
According to this article, "only 21% of infants born during 1999 were baptized into the Church".

So "it's normal, everyone else does it" wouldn't work.
Quote:
I think it better to have a religious upbringing in full awareness of its flaws, than to have an areligious upbringing and deride it without understanding it.
It's quite possible to teach a kid about religion without having to pretend that you believe in it.

I would be proud to raise an atheistic kid who knows more about Christianity than any Christian he meets.
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:49   #27
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Are you actually going to stand up to your wife over this?

Pick your battles carefully, my friend, pick your battles .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 11:49   #28
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
It's quite possible to teach a kid about religion without having to pretend that you believe in it.
I don't disagree but by analogy living in a country teaches you more than reading about it.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 12:10   #29
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
Quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
The other(agin hypocritical thing) is that church schools are generally better than stae ones and it is a big help to get them in if they are christened
Then it is obviously in the best interests of you child to have it done. As a parent why wouldn't you do something which might help your child's future especially if there is so little down side? Not doing it sounds like personal pride which normally isn't a good way to make choices.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old January 27, 2003, 12:32   #30
Jack the Bodiless
King
 
Jack the Bodiless's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:12
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Converted underground reservoir tank.
Posts: 1,345
He could simply lie about having had his kid christened.

Why is this any worse than lying during the ceremony itself?
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:12.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team