Something for you Linux folks to read - Page 2

Ari Rahikkala · January 30, 2003, 12:07

Hm... didn't find anything particularly enlightening. There was a German thread on lists.kde.org where I found this line:

Quote:

deb ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/latest/Debian stable main

At the moment I can't give any better advice.

Asher · January 30, 2003, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by CICSMaster
Oh for god's sake, GET REDHAT and install AUTORPM.

Ari: Thanks, when I get home today I'll try that out.

I don't suppose there's an easy way to install JDK 1.4.1 with apt-get? I couldn't see it listed anywhere.

Ari Rahikkala · January 30, 2003, 15:03

True. Since Debian's pretty strict about including only DFSG-compliant (Debian Free Software Guidelines) stuff in the distro, the latest Sun JDK in Debian is version 1.1. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/de...a-faq/ch2.html . You might have luck with Sun's RPM package and alien, although alien is not a program anyone should count on.

Asher · January 30, 2003, 20:53

Well that KDE path you gave worked, Ari.

But I don't think apt dealt with it properly.

I added it to my sources.list, did an apt-get dist-upgrade
It decided to newly install 5 package, remove 5 packages, and "keep back" 82 packages, only downloading about 6.5MB worth of data from KDE's server.

And all it ended up doing was apparently removing KDE from my list of window managers...so now I'm on gnome.

I would give you the list of 82 packages it's "keeping back" when I try to upgrade, but for some reason Gnome only likes to copy the first character of an entire selection when I try to copy and paste into Mozilla...

Asher · January 30, 2003, 22:34

I managed to completely screw up KDE and Gnome with apt-get.

Both of them just send me back to the GDM login screen when I try to launch them, I'm in Window Maker now.

Edit: I got KDE 3.1 working now. Whee.

MattHiggs · January 31, 2003, 00:42

Quote:

bigboy pants

Sava · January 31, 2003, 01:01

the vision of Asher sitting in front of his computer searching for material online to bash a rival to MS and then typing this stuff out just cracks me up

doWn wiTH lInUX mAN! MS r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz... HAHAHA

MattHiggs · January 31, 2003, 01:04

The vision of Asher in BigBoy pants ctacks me up

Asher · January 31, 2003, 01:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava

the vision of Asher sitting in front of his computer searching for material online to bash a rival to MS and then typing this stuff out just cracks me up

doWn wiTH lInUX mAN! MS r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz... HAHAHA

I don't go out looking for them, they get posted as news stories as sites I frequent.

There's no need for you to be upset because this is all over your head. After all, you dropped out of compsci to go to some liberal arts college, I'm surprised you could figure out how the Post Reply button works.

Quote:

The vision of Asher in BigBoy pants ctacks me up

I'm not wearing any pants

MattHiggs · January 31, 2003, 01:16

I'm wearing really sexy blue stripy tight underpants. When I sexy I mean grandad pants.

Agathon · January 31, 2003, 01:29

Who cares? I've been using various versions of the Mac OS for years now and I have yet to be infected with a virus. I do not even bother with virus protection software - what's the point? Should I convert to XP just for the joy of getting viruses.

And since converting to OS X upon the 10.0 release I have had precisely one crash (and I think that was my fault).

Exactly how much does MS pay Asher, I wonder? At least Mac users have some reason to be fanatical about their computers.

Asher · January 31, 2003, 01:32

The reason there's very very few virii on MacOS is because nobody uses MacOS, and when it is used it's never used for something remotely important or useful to hackers.

And for the record, I've never gotten a Windows virus either. It's AMAZING what happens when you don't open files from people you don't know and keep up to date on your patches (which are done automatically for the most part).

I've also got antivirus software, but it's not any trouble because it plugs into Outlook and scans emails before it gets them anyway.

PS: As for your "Who cares?" comment -- are you kidding? The main bash people use against Windows is "it's insecure". Obviously a lot of people care, especially those people who insist Windows is insecure, buggy crap and should switch over to Linux (*cough*UR*cough*) when it's not any better. In fact, Linux distros are far more buggy in most people's experiences, and obviously they aren't any more secure either.

If you don't care, don't reply.

January 31, 2003, 10:59

Nobody uses Mac OSX, except for those who do not want viruses.
I prefer that the great unwashed don't use OSX. That way all the stupid virus geeks can concentrate on attacking Winblows.
There would be no point in attacking OSX, as no one uses it - your said so.

Finally, there is one point that UNIX of any variety wins on. To execute a program file, the program MUST be marked executable. All reasonable Mail, News and Browsers only download a file with the executable bit turned off. A user MUST take manual action to execute a download - unzip it and then run the unzipped program for example.

This is not true on Windows. Windows can overwrite a file and it will still be executable. This is not possible on Unix.

This makes Unix inherently Virus proof.

Agathon · January 31, 2003, 11:00

Well, I accept your argument but it still means that using a Mac is safer. I don't care about whether or not in some abstract sense of the term Mac OS X is just as vulnerable as Windows, but whether the probability of a breach is as likely in the real world as one on Windows. It isn't, so Macs are better on this count in the real world

.

And, regarding viruses, you know what you are doing - try telling that to my parents' friends whose computers I spent the summer fixing because they didn't know what a virus was, and thought it was cute that complete strangers were sending them email (these people are in their early 60s though, which means they were in their 40s when I got my first ZX81). These people would be better off with an imac.

There are some benefits to having a smaller user base.

Ari Rahikkala · January 31, 2003, 11:58

Quote:

Originally posted by CICSMaster
Finally, there is one point that UNIX of any variety wins on. To execute a program file, the program MUST be marked executable. All reasonable Mail, News and Browsers only download a file with the executable bit turned off. A user MUST take manual action to execute a download - unzip it and then run the unzipped program for example.
--
This makes Unix inherently Virus proof.

I'm in a bit of a hurry (well, not really, but I do have to go in less than an hour.. still, the real reason why I won't write a long post here is that I'm lazy

). All I will post here for now is :

Asher · January 31, 2003, 16:14

I concur with Ari, I literally chuckled to myself reading that post.

Sava · January 31, 2003, 18:16

Quote:

There's no need for you to be upset because this is all over your head. After all, you dropped out of compsci to go to some liberal arts college, I'm surprised you could figure out how the Post Reply button works.

Actually Richard, I transferred from a bloated, private college that was a bureaucratic mess with no job placement program to a fully accredited professional institution that has a 97% job placement for graduates with average starting salaries at $47,000 US.

And despite the fact I work as an IT consultant, build networks and computers in my free time for a substantial part time salary, I have the luxury of working with leaders in the game industry who are my instructors.

Again, the whole fan boy thing suits you because you don't know that much else

Asher · January 31, 2003, 18:56

Quote:

Actually Richard, I transferred from a bloated, private college that was a bureaucratic mess with no job placement program to a fully accredited professional institution that has a 97% job placement for graduates with average starting salaries at $47,000 US.

And despite the fact I work as an IT consultant, build networks and computers in my free time for a substantial part time salary, I have the luxury of working with leaders in the game industry who are my instructors.

Give me the names of these "leaders" in the game industry that are your instructors.

Hell, even my Uni offers a BSc in compsci with a concentration in game design, and has some of the Bioware PhDs teaching the upper level courses. I'd be interested to hear what your college teaches you.

---------------

On a side note, I finally got Nvidia drivers working in Linux. For some reason, Nvidia's installer wouldn't install properly to load the kernel module on bootup, so instead of pissing away time finding out the proper way to do it, I added the insmod command at the very top of /etc/init.d/sysklogd, and now it works perfectly. (yay tuxracer).

But the sound is more of a pain in the ass. I've got a SB Audigy sound card, so I downloaded the drivers and tools from Creative's website for Linux, followed the instructions to the letter, compiled all the components, etc. But when it came to running the configuration script, it told me /dev/mixer doesn't exist, and it doesn't do anything.

Anyone know a way around that?

Ari Rahikkala · January 31, 2003, 19:42

Quote:

On a side note, I finally got Nvidia drivers working in Linux. For some reason, Nvidia's installer wouldn't install properly to load the kernel module on bootup, so instead of pissing away time finding out the proper way to do it, I added the insmod command at the very top of /etc/init.d/sysklogd, and now it works perfectly. (yay tuxracer).

http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-cus...tombootscripts
(Not the most painless way to do this that I've seen, BTW) tells where you should put your custom scripts. /etc/modules is where you should put the names of the modules you want to load at bootup in Debian.

Quote:

But the sound is more of a pain in the ass. I've got a SB Audigy sound card, so I downloaded the drivers and tools from Creative's website for Linux, followed the instructions to the letter, compiled all the components, etc. But when it came to running the configuration script, it told me /dev/mixer doesn't exist, and it doesn't do anything.

Audigy is controlled by the emu10k1 drivers, which are in the vanilla kernel tree. All you should need to do is to include support for SB Live! in make (?:|menu|x)config (add "emu10k1" to modules.autoload if you decide to build it as a module) and optionally run audigy-script. But just as a wild guess, try modprobe emu10k1. If that works, the program that you downloaded did build the module succesfully and put it in the right directory but forgot to load it.

Asher · January 31, 2003, 20:01

I've tried the emu10k1 drivers in the kernel (I downloaded 2.4.20 and recompiled it with SB Live support enabled), still had no sound.

I'd read online that I need he latest emu10k1 from Creative's SourceForge page (dated sometime in December), so I got those and installed them.

I got the emu10k1 module to load now with modprobe (did this about a half hour ago now), and the sound does work...sorta. All it does is takes the input from my microphone and outputs it to the speaker, I get no sounds from the computer itself.

When I run "audigy-script" it just instantly returns me back to the prompt, no output at all...

Ari Rahikkala · February 1, 2003, 07:18

Hm... the script does not have any echo statements and it's possible that all the programs that it uses are quiet...

Quote:

# Requirements:
# ------------
# This script needs the following to be installed:
#
# -the emu10k1 tools:
# emu-config, emu-dspmgr and the dsp .bin files
# -aumix (installed by default on many Linux distros)

Does your system fill these? If it does but the script doesn't work, you could try fiddling with aumix itself.

Asher · February 1, 2003, 07:38

It's somewhat working now, I don't know what I did though.

I added "ac97_codec" as a module to load, just did the whole install procedure again, rebooted, and TuxRacer has sound...

KDE still won't play any sounds when I map sounds to certain KDE events, but I may just need to configure KDE for it now...

Thanks for your help though, Ari, much appreciated.

Ari Rahikkala · February 1, 2003, 08:15

Quote:

KDE still won't play any sounds when I map sounds to certain KDE events, but I may just need to configure KDE for it now...

KDE uses aRts for playing its sounds. www.arts-project.org/doc/handbook/artsd.html (might be down, Google cache is available) says you need to enable it in the KControl Sound Server panel.

Quote:

Thanks for your help though, Ari, much appreciated.

Tech support speaks louder than advocacy

.

Inverse Icarus · February 1, 2003, 16:12

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech...eut/index.html

Asher · February 1, 2003, 16:27

Oh my God, how stupid can those "experts" be?

Quote:

"Trustworthy Computing is failing," Russ Cooper of TruSecure Corp. said of the Microsoft initiative. "I gave it a 'D-minus' at the beginning of the year, and now I'd give it an 'F."'

Yeah, a product that came out a couple years before "Trustworthy Computing" even existed, and a patch was released to fix the problem back in October.

The problem is people don't patch, for whatever reasons they have, and it has nothing to do with the "trustworthy computing" initiative.

Quote:

In October Microsoft released a fix for a different SQL Server problem that if installed in the expected manner would have made patched systems vulnerable again, he said. "If I followed their advice I'd have been vulnerable."

*cough*Bullshit*cough*

Can someone point me to the fix for the problem which makes patched systems vulnerable again...

Pathetic article, dumbass analysts...

Yes, the patching system needs work, and yes, that patching system was completely overhauled for SQL Server 2003 which is due out in a couple of months to replace 2000 (which was affected). Trustworthy computing had zero impact on SQL Server 2000's designs, and when people knock the trustworthy computing stuff and point to difficulty in patching SQL Server 2000, I have to wonder how they can have a job as an industry analyst...

Asher · February 1, 2003, 16:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ari Rahikkala
KDE uses aRts for playing its sounds. www.arts-project.org/doc/handbook/artsd.html (might be down, Google cache is available) says you need to enable it in the KControl Sound Server panel.

It has aRts enabled, but the "test sound" button is greyed out.

When I try to use aRts from the commandline to specify to use /dev/dsp, it tells me:

Code:

[/home/glonk/335/asst1]> artsd -D /dev/dsp
artsd: error while loading shared libraries: libvorbisfile.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

I've tried apt-get to get anything vorbis related, and it still says it.

Ari Rahikkala · February 1, 2003, 19:49

WTF? Is that still broken? When I first started using Vorbis I had to fix that... and I can't even remember how long ago that was. More than a year... at least.

What you need to do is to create symlinks from the files your programs need to where the libraries actually are. I'm not sure about the exact names, but a little web search reveals that /usr/lib/libvorbisfile.so.0 needs to be a link to libvorbisfile.so.3 to work (if the name hasn't changed, of course). I'm not sure if this is the Right Way, but it worked for me and I never even got a warning from it, much less any problems. The same procedure needs to be done for all other Vorbis-related files - libvorbisenc and libvorbis, at least (on my system).

What I need to do now is to go to Debian's website, find out about their bug tracking system, and ask if the maintainer of the Vorbis packages intends to make them bloody work in Woody within this decade...

Ari Rahikkala · February 1, 2003, 19:58

Well, as I expected, it's already been reported: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=178756 . And with bad luck won't be fixed until Sarge is released, which means that you can look forward to a working libvorbis (or whatever it will be called) package in stable around the time when Duke Nukem Forever is out...

Velociryx · February 1, 2003, 20:01

Repeat after Asher:

Gates is God...Microsoft makes the best products in the world....None can compare, and all shall fall to the mighty scythe of The Gates.

-=Vel=-

Drake Tungsten · February 2, 2003, 00:45

I'll trust the experts over some Canadian coms-sci student any day of the week...