What makes AI immune to espionage?

tibbits · January 29, 2003, 12:05

I've never been able to do the propoganda thins. Why not?

Mark

Stuie · January 29, 2003, 12:46

Democracy.

If the AI government = Democracy, they are immune to propaganda. Check on the Military Advisor screen to see their government type.

Mad Bomber · January 29, 2003, 12:47

Democracy makes any civ immune to propoganda, including your own, its not an AI cheat.

tibbits · January 30, 2003, 06:34

Thanks guys!
Mark

Alex · January 30, 2003, 07:12

This is totally unrealistic to me. Why are democracies immune to propaganda? They could have made it so the success rate for propaganda actions against a democratic government would be low, but immunity to propaganda is something that breaks the game balance, IMO.

On the other hand, I can see that they wanted to tone down propaganda, considering how powerful it was both in Civ2 and in SMAC. Laudable effort, bad result.

Panag · January 30, 2003, 08:02

hi ,

, it has been posible to get some propaganda working in a democrazy , if there is a long war going on they change government type , if the city is close to you and far away from a palace , without a courthouse or policestation , you get a very good chance , ....

have a nice day

Mad Bomber · January 30, 2003, 09:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexnm
This is totally unrealistic to me. Why are democracies immune to propaganda? They could have made it so the success rate for propaganda actions against a democratic government would be low, but immunity to propaganda is something that breaks the game balance, IMO.

On the other hand, I can see that they wanted to tone down propaganda, considering how powerful it was both in Civ2 and in SMAC. Laudable effort, bad result.

it is amazing to me that they kept propoganda in CIv 3. as I believe that Culture flipping is intended to model this as well. I would like to see a propoganda mission to be able to be used against your own citizens to keep them happy (esp during a long war, like what the warring countries did in WW I and WW II)

Panag · January 30, 2003, 09:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

it is amazing to me that they kept propoganda in CIv 3. as I believe that Culture flipping is intended to model this as well. I would like to see a propoganda mission to be able to be used against your own citizens to keep them happy (esp during a long war, like what the warring countries did in WW I and WW II)

hi ,

well it has its benefits , .....

one example ; a city has "flipped" to an other nation , try "propaganda" on them , you are going to get your city back with a good chance of not going to go to war , ...

have a nice day

sabrewolf · January 30, 2003, 12:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie
Democracy.

If the AI government = Democracy, they are immune to propaganda. Check on the Military Advisor screen to see their government type.

how can you actually know what governement the AI has? only on the military advisor screen?

Stuie · January 31, 2003, 09:52

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
how can you actually know what governement the AI has? only on the military advisor screen?

I'm pretty sure that's the only place the AI's current government type is displayed.

HolyWarrior · January 31, 2003, 18:36

But they made propaganda so ridiculously expensive in Civ3 that really, who uses it? I have NEVER used propaganda.

Mad Bomber · February 1, 2003, 02:27

I use it if I can get espionage before the AI gets to democracy (doesn't happen often). using a propoganda mission is a great way to get luxury resources or a foothold on another continent without going to war.

Panag · February 1, 2003, 06:56

Quote:

Originally posted by HolyWarrior
But they made propaganda so ridiculously expensive in Civ3 that really, who uses it? I have NEVER used propaganda.

hi ,

its still way cheaper then war or buying all the buildings inside most cities , .....

have a nice day

Keeper of Hell · February 1, 2003, 19:26

Except that propaganda works very rarely. So basically, it's like throwing away about 5k gold.

Mad Bomber · February 1, 2003, 20:58

Quote:

Except that propaganda works very rarely. So basically, it's like throwing away about 5k gold

You seem to be targeting the wrong cities. target the smallish cities, and cities without many culture improvements, if the cost is above 250g for the mision it will iusually fail. Cities that are isolated are also good targets. Never target a civ in Communism as the chance of succeding is very small due to their expert spies. If you happen to use communism, propoganda is considerably more effective.

sabrewolf · February 2, 2003, 07:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
You seem to be targeting the wrong cities. target the smallish cities, and cities without many culture improvements, if the cost is above 250g for the mision it will iusually fail. Cities that are isolated are also good targets. Never target a civ in Communism as the chance of succeding is very small due to their expert spies. If you happen to use communism, propoganda is considerably more effective.

exactly that's the problem.
by the time you can do propaganda, there aren't hardly any size 1 cities without any culture. specially the big civs won't have many of those.

but you can get these small villages of weak civs in a cheaper way: renegotiate peace and demand one of those puny villages. you won't be popular, but you've got a nice entry point on that continent/island to move in all your troops after rush-building an airport.

player1 · February 2, 2003, 09:21

Balance issue.
Democarcy is barely better then Republic (better workers and silghly lower corruption).
On the other hand higher war warriness hurts a lot.

sabrewolf · February 2, 2003, 09:33

simple way of triggering a war without attacking:
- espionage mission without success
- honeypot: a small, undefended city near his units.

you won't suffess weariness if you are attacked.

sabrewolf · February 2, 2003, 09:41

comment on espionage: of course the others won't like you after that

Mad Bomber · February 2, 2003, 12:16

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf

exactly that's the problem.
by the time you can do propaganda, there aren't hardly any size 1 cities without any culture. specially the big civs won't have many of those.

but you can get these small villages of weak civs in a cheaper way: renegotiate peace and demand one of those puny villages. you won't be popular, but you've got a nice entry point on that continent/island to move in all your troops after rush-building an airport.

The AI NEVER agrees to part with a city unless it is at war and getting its a$$ kicked, the idea of a propoganda mission is to get the city without having a war. True your target list is limited, but if you beline to nationalism/spionage then you should be able to build the IA before all the civ's have found demo (regent or below) which helps your chances. As for the relations, eventually they will hate you anyways so that is not really an isue.

Panag · February 2, 2003, 13:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Keeper of Hell
Except that propaganda works very rarely. So basically, it's like throwing away about 5k gold.

hi ,

not when you spy around a bit first

have a nice day