Should we gift a base to Zakharov? If so, from where?

AdamTG02 · January 29, 2003, 16:01

Previous discussion of this proposal has taken place here. Shall we give a base to the University to serve as its government-in-exile, should the Hive overrun it?

1) Should we make such a trade?

2) What base should we trade? Options that have been discussed are to give U.N. Research Complex to the University, to build a base to the north and give it to the University, or to build a base to the west and give it to the University. For each of the latter options, I'm allowing the option of defaulting to UN Research Complex if the Hive threatens to overrun the University before we can establish a base in our preferred spot. After all, we can establish a base there and trade it back later.

This poll will be open for three days. TKG, I'm posting this without consulting with you, and it does touch on Internal Affairs. Feel free to post your own polls on the locations of bases, but I wanted to make certain this would be established by Saturday, as the University's time may be short.

Method · January 29, 2003, 18:19

before i vote, what's "the base to the west"?

AdamTG02 · January 29, 2003, 19:46

Pandemoniak wrote:

Quote:

I ll vote yes if im sure theres enough volunteers.
But not north, we'd better keep this as a natural reserve of mindworms when we'll switch green.
Why not the small isolated island south west ?

The western option was put in to accomodate this possibility. I'm not going to specify exactly where to put that base, since it's an Internal Affairs decision. But presumably it would be either on that island or in the sea near it. (Building a sea colony pod would remove the necessity of building a transport.)

Voltaire · January 30, 2003, 00:01

Are we so arrogant that we are willing to trade the lives of our citizens as some commodity on the open market? This exercise which we are even considering pursing disturbs me greatly. We, as the government of the faction, should not posses the power to give away our citizens to another faction, particularly one that in recent times has been openly hostile towards us.

The predicament which the University finds itself in, though greatly troubling and of great concern to our own safety, does not warrant attempting to save their dying faction by giving away our own citizens.

Cedayon · January 30, 2003, 00:12

Ah, Voltaire, you return

I understand your concern about there being PK citizens in the base that is given to the Uni... I think the RP justification was that any of our own colonists in the base in question would be volunteers for this endeavor.

Voltaire · January 30, 2003, 01:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedayon
Ah, Voltaire, you return

I understand your concern about there being PK citizens in the base that is given to the Uni... I think the RP justification was that any of our own colonists in the base in question would be volunteers for this endeavor.

Even if they were volunteers, I would still argue that the only justifiable means by which any base can be handed over to another faction would be if they succeed to that faction following a referendum. Even if some were to volunteer, what about those who do not wish to move away from their homes, do we have the justification to evict them?

Cedayon · January 30, 2003, 01:17

I'm not sure I was as clear as I should have been about the proposal: We'll build a colony pod, with the colonists all being volunteers for this, then build the base and immediately hand it over to the Uni.

Perhaps it's wishful thinking about there being enough volunteers

... but we were looking for some kind of explanation that didn't involve the evicting of PK citizens from their homes.

Voltaire · January 30, 2003, 02:46

Building a colony pod of volunteers or refugees from the University would be acceptable, but it has been proposed that we hand of UN Research Complex. That I find unacceptable.

GeneralTacticus · January 30, 2003, 03:36

Why? What difference does it make? The niversity society is more or less the same as ours, after all, ecxept for a more efficient government and a higher focus on research.

GeneralTacticus · January 30, 2003, 03:42

Why? What difference does it make? The University society is more or less the same as ours, after all, ecxept for a more efficient government and a higher focus on research.

Voltaire · January 30, 2003, 04:15

The point is that we shouldn’t be the ones making that decision, let the people of that base vote on the matter. In fact, there shouldn’t even be a vote on the matter seeing as this proposition is coming from the upper echelons of the government. When and if the people desire to join the University faction, let them, but let us not be playing god here by arbitrarily deciding to given an entire base away to the University rationalizing our decisions by stating that their society is close enough to our that people wont notice. And has anyone considered that someone might now wish to join the University? Yes their society is essentially like ours, except much more elitist along intellectual lines, this for some citizens might mean that they cannot hold public office, or that they are not eligible for certain positions, etc.

GeneralTacticus · January 30, 2003, 04:36

While I accept your reasoning, how exactly can we conduct a referendum beyond announcing that it's been passed or failed? How could we determine the result?

GeneralTacticus · January 31, 2003, 22:30

*BUMP* We need to move VERY fast on this. Zakh is definitely going to lose one of his remaining bases if the Hiv eattacks next turn, and may well lose his last one too.

Voltaire · February 1, 2003, 02:45

I’m aware of the problems of actually conducting such a referendum; it was mainly intended as a RP arguments against the transfer of territory to the University.

As for deciding if we should give him a base, the poll shows that people are overwhelming for the proposal. Though seeing as the majority would only give him a newly constructed base in the north, I suggest that we get a colony pod up there ASAP and take our chances. Zak might be overran by Yang in the upcoming turns, though I have strong hope that his base in the east due to its relative isolation and distance from the remained of the faction will hold out long enough for us to provide a base for the University in the north.

GeneralTacticus · February 1, 2003, 02:50

The poll says the majority want a newly founded base in the west to be transferred, defaulting to UNRC if Zakh is being overrun.

As for him holding out until we can build a base in the north - fat chance. There's at least one Hive impact rover parked near Budushii Dvor, which has only two units in it, both with only synthametal armous and no fortifications, so their chances of holding out for more than a couple of turns are pretty slim.

Cedayon · February 1, 2003, 02:57

yea, 40% (4) go for the specific option you mentioned, and 70% (7) went for options that at least imply that UNRC should be given if the University will cease to exist otherwise.

Voltaire · February 1, 2003, 03:02

Ah crap I didn’t read the poll options correctly! Never mind.

But do we really need Zak that much as to warrant giving away a existing base (something to which I’m strongly opposed to)???

GeneralTacticus · February 1, 2003, 03:10

Given that it will give us an extra vote in the Planetary Council (not to be sniffed at), and someone to help us with research (he can probably produce energy on the Hive continent more efficiently than we can, as his HQ will be closer), I think it would be worth it, especially given that one base (which we can probably get back once we liberate a few University bases) isn't a huge price to pay.

EDIT: And given what's going on in the bases that Yang has occupied, it would be nothing short of obscene to deny th University a place of refuge.

Cedayon · February 1, 2003, 13:58

Yea, communications are hazy from that continent... but the population in the occupied bases is getting treated very... well, I'm not sure I know the right word.

GeneralTacticus · February 1, 2003, 20:45

East Timor-esque, according to our probe teams.