Are all races equal?

[Japher]

Maybe I draw the line to thin...

1. A race of people settle down and form a community with like, similar people.
2. This community develops a culture based off of it's needs, and in turn becomes a state.
3. This state interacts with other states, thus developing it into a nation.
4. One will compare these nations based on strength of nation (monetary, millitary, etc.) and strength of culture.
5. From this one generate an opinion about the race that exists within that nation.

Race is a dominant factor in defining communities, cultures, and borders.

A culture and community are dominant factors in defining social attitudes.

Social attitudes are dominant factors in defining success apptitudes.

My line of logic thus leads me to believe that race is a dominant factor in defining success apptitudes, or ones ability to achieve within a specific discipline.

Were I to believe this wholy and truly then I would be a racist. Yet, I do believe this as a general consensus, thus I find myself guilty of being prejudice... which I am being told is the same thing as being racist. I tend to use racism as word that carries with it a hint of hatred for that race... something which I do not have.

In America, at least, the borders that once seperated race, creed, and culture have been allowed to mesh and blend more so in other countries. Unfortunatly, the race, creed, and/or culture that initially established those borders tend to bring them into the free world. Until these borders are sufficiently blurred or disappear all together then racial difference will continue to exist even within America, and yes, these differences include Intellectual differences (not that one race has a greater capacity to become more intelligent, just that they have a greater propensity to).

I enjoy meeting people from different races, and learn that hey this black guy is smart, and doesn't like rap music, or this asian guy is really into sports... I find it cool that these people are crossing racial prejudisms, and are probably proving someone like me wrong about my thoughts everyday.

Yet, being told that I live in an Asian area, or Chinatown, or a White Neighborhood, or The Sticks, or The Ghetto, or.... Just cools down the warm fuzzy I got when I saw racial barriers being brought down.

[Luk]

I sadi she is pretty, but not smart and addes smile. It was a rather joke. As I said, in every society there are persons which are better, and worser. Generally it is possibile that blackman is very inteligent, and more inteligent then many whites. But if we take elite of Blacks, and elite of Whites, it is the same, elite of Whites I think is smarter then blacks.

I never said, that all blacks are stupid, or that we should kill them all, or enslave, I said only that in general Whites are smarter then Blacks. But blacks have their advanatges over us too... It is question of our criteria which race is superior. But races are definitly different.

Generally the true nations, are ethinicly identical in most percent. There are of course ethnic groups in nation, but for example ethnic groupd of Poles are different then Germans.

[Caligastia]

"racism" is a very poorly defined word. Usually it is used as an insult, and a way to stifle debate. You can be "racist" without hating other races, but the word "racist" is always used negatively.

[Velociryx]

I still contend it's the wrong word to start with.

Might as well call it Fire-Hydrantist, if we're not gonna describe it accurately anyway.

Luk....it doesn't matter what we say to you, apparently. You have your beliefs, and you're firmly convinced of them. No matter what evidence we trot out to prove you wrong, you're so hell-bent on believing in your supposed superiority, that there's just no convincing you.

That's a very dangerous thing.

History (which you enojoy using as a guide), shows us what happens when people with such beliefs rise to positions of power....you might remember....silly looking man with a bad moustache?

He and his master race did wonderful things for your country, right?

:shakes head in amazement again:

-=Vel=-

[Caligastia]

Also, why is it acceptable to joke about someone's national origin, but not their race?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I still contend it's the wrong word to start with.

Might as well call it Fire-Hydrantist, if we're not gonna describe it accurately anyway.

I agree.

Luk....it doesn't matter what we say to you, apparently. You have your beliefs, and you're firmly convinced of them. No matter what evidence we trot out to prove you wrong, you're so hell-bent on believing in your supposed superiority, that there's just no convincing you.

That's a very dangerous thing.

History (which you enojoy using as a guide), shows us what happens when people with such beliefs rise to positions of power....you might remember....silly looking man with a bad moustache?

He and his master race did wonderful things for your country, right?

:shakes head in amazement again:

-=Vel=-

I doubt Luk treats people from other races with distain simply because of their race, so where is the danger in his beliefs? Believing in racial differences does not make you a goose-stepping nazi.

[Arrian]

I just read this whole thread.

My $.02:

To the extent that there are differences between the "races" they are evolutionary in response to local climate & other such concerns. Skin tone relative to lattitude, etc. Arguing about which race is "smarter" is pretty silly, given that we have a helluva time measuring intelligence to begin with (raise your hand if you think the SAT does it well. If you raised your hand, you probably have to bow to me as being a relative genius).

Most of the so-called racial differences are actually cultural in nature.

Luk... ah, forget it. Nothing I say will change your mind.

Cavebear, Vel, & others: good effort, though it was a lost cause.

-Arrian

[Sandman]

And of course as Pole I see that Polish culture in White cultures are not the strongest, and I know we are not the best Whites But as a whole group Im White, so I know I belong to the European, White, superior civilization, the civilization of better men, better in all ways

There are plenty of non-European civilizations with superior records than Poland.

Japan, China, Persia, Thailand, Turkey (partially European I know) and even Vietnam.

Poland was conquered in same way as so many non-European civilizations. It's record is no better than India, or Africa.

You're just leeching off the more successful European civilizations.

[Ben Kenobi]

I never said, that all blacks are stupid, or that we should kill them all, or enslave, I said only that in general Whites are smarter then Blacks.

Luk, so what defines the black 'race'?

How do you fit people into one compartment or another? How about people like Tiger Woods who is a mixture of four races?

The problem is the edges, unless you do what Hitler did, and classify a person as a jew if they had a grandfather who did so, or in the US, where 1 drop of black blood makes you black.

Or even a Canadian example. I had a friend of mine, one of the smartest people in my High School. One of the scholarships she won was for First Nations people, though she is only 1/4 Native.

No one could tell, unless they saw her family, that she had any First Nations background, yet this is enough to qualify one as a minority here in Canada.

That's why I think we are ONE people, with slightly different skin on the outside. How many people have died, including Dr. King, for this one idea?

[Master Zen]

Luk:

First of all, I never argued about the terrain or geography, that was someone else. You still have not defeated my arguments, so, as you say, "Read people what I write"

I do agree with Caligastia that the world is a bit too PC to see things truly objectively. Still, most people do get offended if you insult (even jokingly) their country of origin.

I have always been surprised when I go the US that there are black beauty magazines. I would imagine the outroar if there was a 100% "white" only beauty magazine, it would be branded as racist but what gives blacks the right to have one then? Of course, since blacks and whites are phisically different there is no reason not to have separate beauty magazines since I would not go to a black magazine to get my beauty tips if I were white, simple common sense, just like I doubt Alicia Keys gets her style from Nicole Kidman...

Now on with the pride thing. There is pride and there is PRIDE. Gay pride is being gay and accepting it, being open and objective about it, being with same-sex partner in public etc etc. I have no problem with that. Gay PRIDE is dressing like a diva, saying "hi handsome" to every passerby, in other words, offending the hell out of everyone. I hate that. That same attitude then justifies me to be have Straight PRIDE and go around beating the crap out of any gay person because that what machos do. Extremism is wrong. Same with races, there's nothing about being proud to be white. I would if I were white, just I as am proud to be latin. But I don't go around flaunting it and disrespecting others and making them feel less. I also have the intelligence to say that if i truly believe the latin race is "superior" then surely a white person is right if he says the white race is "superior". I have no biological facts to prove my race's superiority, so from that POV I cannot argue that another race is superior too.

BTW, I did the SAT once and got 1230 yet I have an IQ of 133. Could you judge my intelligence based on one of them? No. Each one measures a different aspect of that broad and subjective thing called "intelligence" which we can't even define perfectly.

The "we should all **** each other until we're the same color" was a quote from the movie Bulworth (which actually stars Halle Berry ), intended as a joke.

I would of course agree to the **** thing, not the race thing...

[Luk]

Well, if someone is half-white, and half-black, then he is a mulat in Polish, I do not know in english this world. Simple

What arguments I did not defeated raguil????

And Im proud because Im white, as Im proud that I have that kind of family, that kind of ancestors, that people whose gens I have are so great!!

It is not to be proud of when you are gay, because you are sick. It is stupid to be proud from having AIDS, so it is stupid to being proud from homosexuality.

Poland is not a civilization morons! Fisrt, go and see the definition of civilization, culture, subculture, etc. etc. Your ignorane, and lack of knowledge is very annoying.

I say that I will not convince you because most of you are not clean white I think, and this people who does not have do not want to be called racists. But I do not know why you all are ashamed of your race? I think that we should not disscuss about differency of races, which is a fact, but whose race is the best Like which nation is the best, which teamt is the best etc.

You will not belive in pure facts, but someone said if facts are wrong... it is worser to facts. I think it was Lenin.

Nothing what I say will never change your mind, you are blind from hate, and lack of tolerance.

And that one Canadian friend who was not blind was learning good does not mean he was inteligent. Inteligency, and degrees are two another things

In the end, I can always say - we are white because our civilization, white civilization, and standards are the World civilization. Nobody did this before, and nobody will do it after....

[Az]

[Velociryx]

Man....you and Docfeelgood have just GOT to meet!

You two take the proverbial cake.

Tell you what....go play on one of the White Power web sites....I'm sure they'll appreciate your point of view.

I think it's safe to say that here, in this place, you're not convincing anyone of anything but how narrow-minded you are.

-=Vel=-

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Luk
In the end, I can always say - we are white because our civilization, white civilization, and standards are the World civilization. Nobody did this before, and nobody will do it after....

I'm kinda sorry to have to burst your bubble, but unfortunately:

1) This "white world standard" was the exclusive creation of the nations along the Atlantic, the Teutonic and Latin "races". The last time I checked, they had nothing to do with where you come from, except that Slask was under their occupation for several hundred years;

2) Even then, this "white world standard" has influenced the world for less than 300 years, out of 5000 years of civilization. From that perspective, it is just below the level of Persian world dominance or Mongol rule, while other races have done much better;

3) The reason why you can boast of this "white world standard" is because they happened to catch the latest period of human development, the period that allowed mass communications and transportation, a period that was built on the achievements of multiple civilizations;

4) This "white world standard" has rounded its peak and has begun to lose ground to certain other "world standards", a trend that has gone on for half a century, and other cultures which traditionally lead the world in science and culture are showing signs of regaining that position;

5) All in all, taking solace from your "belonging" in a certain race, group, sexual orientation, etc, and hence believing that you are "better", is quite pathetic;

6) This blind faith that "nobody will do it after" was no doubt uttered during the height of Rome, Ottoman Turkey, or Tang China. Plenty of people would do it "after", and do it better too.

[Luk]

Heh... you are pathetic Even theory of racial equality is the theory of whiteman Because the Human rights, democracy etc is the symbol of the Whiteman. The individualism etc. is created by whiteman, and all of you people are under white civilization. White culture is everywhere, we conquered all the world... And... it is the end of history, nobody can develop something new, because we whites developed everything, we have everything, and we know everything. All other races have only profits from this... And they should be gratefull to us for this. But I know they will not because of normal, Human envy, and jeleaus

And Im still so proud that Im white

[Az]

;

2) Even then, this "white world standard" has influenced the world for less than 300 years, out of 5000 years of civilization. From that perspective, it is just below the level of Persian world dominance or Mongol rule, while other races have done much better;

I realize your zealousy to prove him wrong, but this is not correct.
europeans and their descendants have been the first to dominate the entire planet. Mongolia, and certainly Persia never did that, just for the simple fact they never knew the americas existed.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Luk
Heh... you are pathetic Even theory of racial equality is the theory of whiteman Because the Human rights, democracy etc is the symbol of the Whiteman. The individualism etc. is created by whiteman, and all of you people are under white civilization. White culture is everywhere, we conquered all the world... And... it is the end of history, nobody can develop something new, because we whites developed everything, we have everything, and we know everything. All other races have only profits from this... And they should be gratefull to us for this. But I know they will not because of normal, Human envy, and jeleaus

And Im still so proud that Im white

Perhaps you should learn from other civilizations who are far more ancient than you.

Other civilizations who have, during their height, also said,

xxxxx culture is everywhere, we conquered all the world... And... it is the end of history, nobody can develop something new, because we xxxxx's developed everything, we have everything, and we know everything. All other races have only profits from this... And they should be gratefull to us for this. But I know they will not because of normal, Human envy, and jeleaus

Unfortunately, half of those civilizations have fallen and the other half are trying to play catch-up.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Azazel

I realize your zealousy to prove him wrong, but this is not correct.
europeans and their descendants have been the first to dominate the entire planet. Mongolia, and certainly Persia never did that, just for the simple fact they never knew the americas existed.

Yes, that's true. But Persian and Mongolia were, after all, limited by the technology which they had to build on. By the time they had that technological base available, all of the Asian civilizations had already entered their decay-collapse phases, just as Western civilization is entering it today.

Hence, "genes" have little or nothing to do with anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, if someone is half-white, and half-black, then he is a mulat in Polish, I do not know in english this world. Simple.

Are they a seperate race from both black or white?
How about people who are 1/4 black and 3/4 white? Are they white or black?

[ranskaldan]

The word is mulatto, by the way.

[Luk]

ranskaldan - you have many complexes

1) So learn a history of Europe. Poland was always latin country with a great impact to LatinEurope culture in XIV-XVII centuries. I do not want to say it was a big impact, and equal as other great nations, but we have an impact.

2) What Persian dominance? What Mongol dominance? It is easy to conquer inferior people and create a short-period Empire. Nobody, never-ever conquered European Civilization. Our culture was unbeatable, even if Roman Empire was destroyed, the tribes which did this, assimilated and assumpted Roman Culture. The Mongols, Persians, or anything else had no cultural equal alternative since Greece. And because of lack of transportation we did not spread the world earlier. It is not possibile that China, Persia, or anything crap to conquer us for a great period because you can not assimilate people who are superior culturally. The true Empire is not military empire, because military empire is a geopolitical structure which changes from time to time, but true empire is an empire of heart, the empire which enlight all people who have a contact with this empire. Almost all people along the world wants to be Westerns, we do not want to conquer them military. What alternative to Western culture is???? Nothing, because there is not anything new what was not created by Europeans

3) We did not catch the latest period of human development but we simply aquired the techs to spread our culture all over the world. I did not wonder how could Europeans assimilate to China so called "civilization". China is modernizing because they accept white rules of game. Because they can not modernize in other way, because there are not other ways There are other ways, but compromitated of its primitivism their way - maoism

4) I think White civilization are still at peak, and even are gaining a new positions because of globalisation. Globalisation is the must, globalisation is the symbol of white man White culture If you say no to globalisation you live like North Koreans. It is a choice. Be rich, live like white, be poor live like Koreans

5) You are pathetic

6) Rome as geopolitical structure collapsed, as the abstract idea is still living, and it spread all over the world, because all law systems are in origin base at Roman Law

[Sandman]

Poland is not a civilization morons! Fisrt, go and see the definition of civilization, culture, subculture, etc. etc. Your ignorane, and lack of knowledge is very annoying.

Oh no, I quite agree. Poland is not a civilization.

[ranskaldan]

1) Poland is a Slavic country. Unless you want to call yourself German, that is. If you mean that Poland is a Roman Catholic country, then I couldn't care less, since it is Protestant civilization that rules the current world.

I do not deny Poland's contribution and impact on Western civilization, and neither do I deny the impact of Persia, Arabia, Greece, Russia, China, India or Japan on world civilization.

But of course, you were the one who chose to focus on the so-called "white standard", which means that you only accept the actual, comtemporary players of the "white world civilization", not the contributors who came earlier. Hence, just as you have rejected the rest of the world, so have you rejected Poland by the same logic, and given the entire credit of modern world civilization to Germany, England, and the US.

2) First of all, the modern "dominant races" of Europe were frequently these "inferior people" that get conquered. As for having an "unbeatable culture", that's indeed true. For much of the Middle Ages, the advanced civilizations in Arabia and China failed to see the need to go out and conquer such a backward and underdeveloped area, except, of course, the time Mongols came and defeated the most powerful European nations at the time. And as for the "enlightenment" of the world by the West, I seriously suggest that you look into the philosophical and scientific achievements of non-Western cultures.

3) Maoism, by the way, was a twisted export of Europe.
"We did not catch the latest period of human development but we simply aquired the techs to spread our culture all over the world. "
You are contradicting yourself there.

4) By this time of modern civilization, the so-called "white civilization" has already been "diluted", if you will, by the renewed input of other civilizations. And this will continue.
This is the pattern throughout history - one civilization gains dominance, all other civilizations rip it off, develop their own spins, and then overshadow the original civilization. Has happened and will happen again.

5) That is the most pathetic counterargument I've seen yet.

6) Plenty of empires collapsed with "abstract ideas" living on. That's a non-point.

[DuncanK]

Sadly, this thread will go past 500 posts. It doesn't matter how rational we are. The bigots will just think its a conspiracy.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Luk
..... Our culture was unbeatable, even if Roman Empire was destroyed, the tribes which did this, assimilated and assumpted Roman Culture. The Mongols, Persians, or anything else had no cultural equal alternative since Greece. And because of lack of transportation we did not spread the world earlier. It is not possibile that China, Persia, or anything crap to conquer us for a great period because you can not assimilate people who are superior culturally. The true Empire is not military empire, because military empire is a geopolitical structure which changes from time to time, but true empire is an empire of heart, the empire which enlight all people who have a contact with this empire. Almost all people along the world wants to be Westerns, we do not want to conquer them military. What alternative to Western culture is???? Nothing, because there is not anything new what was not created by Europeans......

After the Roman Empire collapsed, Europe fell into a Dark Age. Trade returned to barter and political rule was accomplished by fiefdoms and local barbarian lords. Europe took nearly a thousand years to recover from this darkness. During that period, Rome's population fell to 50,000, and Venice's population barely touched 100,000 in the last part of the Middle Ages.

At about the same time, Arab traders were making their way easily across the Indian Ocean. A Chinese fleet sent in the 1400-1500's reached Africa. Both Baghdad and Chang'an boasted one million residents and architecture that Europeans could not hope to rival. Arabs were also perfecting the arts of astronomy, algebra, and alchemy. Half of the stars in the sky today have Arab names. "Algebra" is still an Arab word.

The only evidence that Muslim Spain took any interest in Europe, in fact, was a single sheet of paper found that contained a few German words. That's it. In the meantime, after the Mongol Khans conquered half of Eurasia, they chose to give most of it to relatives and keep China for themselves.

Then the Europeans learned. They majestically ripped off Arab and Chinese civilization, just as we rip Western civilization now. Then they set out to conquer the world. It took them about 300 years, and 300 years was their time limit. The Asian civilizations have realized just how much they need to catch up and are doing it as we speak. Europe, on the other hand, is just like Asia 300 years ago - complacent, arrogant, unaware that other civilizations are not just ripping - they are also innovating, surpassing, reaching for dreams of dominance.

No "race" has ever been "better". They take turns at working hard - becoming arrogant - falling off - coming back. That's how it works.

Just to put things into perspective.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by DuncanK
Sadly, this thread will go past 500 posts. It doesn't matter how rational we are. The bigots will just think its a conspiracy.

Heck, I guess you're right.

I'll try a bit in the meantime anyway.

[Luk]

Poland is a Slavic, Latin (I mean latin, it means under Latin-Christian, or Roman-Christian influence).

The civilization is European. Germany, English, etc. are the parts of one civilization. Even USA is a part of European, western civ.

Romans, Germans, and Slavics are definitly white

Arabia and China did not conquered European Civilization (Arabia had a real chance) because they are not expansive. They do not have the will to expansion. That is a first and big difference. That is way I never was affraid about Chinas stupid syndrom created bu the US administration in Western Society. China is an inferior civilization, because it has no ability to expand to other races. It is attractive only to the one race, and it is in question. Mongols. It was a barbarian hordes, without any ideas, culture, etc. They were good fighters that is all. And of course we aquired many techs from China, Arabia etc. But we really use this techs. We have the will of practicalism, and practicall creationism. We are the only one civilization which develops non-stop new things, and truly adopts techs of other civs. What is a deal that China developed gunpowder, etc. They developed, but they did not practically used it. And what is China worth they showed after Europeans gained techs to spread around the world

3)We aquired techs, means, we developed in this sentence. If you do not understand it it is because you are Chinese

Maoism is a twisted export from Europe. As everything

4) Heh. Maybe Chinese invented globalisation...? Globalisation is another step of white supremacy, and that is the fact. It is not a revolution, it is not against white order. It is a continuation.

5) As yours first

6) Plenty of White Empires. From non-white empires there are not any ideas (China - nothing, Mongols - nothing, Persia - nothing

[Velociryx]

People with freckles are obviously far, far superior than any other group.

Let's face it, the freckled race has been responsible for creating the most dominating, enduring culture the world has ever seen.

Ghengis Khan was very freckly.

Ghandi had freckles.

Many Roman Emperors were freckled, and they created the most enduring, awesome civilization the world has ever seen (all because of their freckles, no doubt!)

I am very proud I have freckles too. This makes me inherently superior, as I'm sure you all realize.

Now...bow down to the freckled among you and be eternally grateful that they have built the glorious society you live in.....the freckled race is supreme!

Facts? I need no facts to prove my position, and if you attempt to argue with me, I will simply say you have "very many complexes." There simply IS no counter-argument. If you are freckle-less, you are markedly inferior.

I am freckled, and I have spoken.

-=Vel=-
[/sarcasm]

[Guynemer]

Luk, I sincerely and honestly hope that someday you will grow up and realize the utter worthlessness and emptiness of the racism that you are so cheerfully advertising here.

But I'm not going to hold my breath.

[ranskaldan]

Luk:

Heck, I continued to entertain your points even after you began to call China and Persia "crap". But your last post was ridiculous, offensive, and laughably inaccurate.

Perhaps you should read more about history. About how glorious Rome, Persia, and China were in their day, and how it all went away so fast. And how nations that everyone ignored, like Europe or Japan, achieved so much in so little time.

I shall follow the advice of Dunc, Vel and Guy and let you be. At least Western civilization has these people who are willing to consider other cultures and their achievements, something that China didn't do, and collapsed because of it. These are the people who will keep your treasured Western civilization alive. But you won't.