Modifying the AI engine - is it possible?

Mr. Harley · February 1, 2003, 04:15

I've play SMAC since shortly after its release, though I've only been on the forums for a month. There seems to be a consensus that the AI could use some overhaul. Can it be modified directly, rather than indirectly with faction editing/game difficulty? Does anybody know where in the game the code is kept?

If enough people supported it, maybe firaxis would make the SMAC AI code available now that civ3 with a better AI engine has been released. Then the various SMAC/X communities could work on an effective builder AI. Obviously Firaxis would protect their copyright, and possibly even discover some good coders out there. Maybe a new release? Just a thought.

zsozso · February 1, 2003, 11:27

I do not know about any way to modify the AI. However, if Firaxis would be willing to give us some information or a script language input or any other way to do it, I would be very interested working on it. Even if they only do as much as release detailed information about the game save format, then I could already write an "external" AI, i.e. an automated PBEM/hot-seat oppenent program, which you could use instead of a human player to play a turn in a hot-seat game. What I mean, is that you play your turn, save it, run the external AI program that reads in the save and produces another save with its moves made, then you load that up and so on...

I could even make a web or email based version of it, where you can send/upload your file and it would sned you back the save after the turn is played by the external AI.

If there are any other programmers out there willing to chime in, then we could make it into serious open-source project.

Alinestra Covelia · February 1, 2003, 20:28

I'm only a puny player, not a programmer, but I must admit the thought of a new revamped SMAC AI makes me weak at the knees.

[flourishes banner]

This is a bold challenge - will Firaxis take it up? Stay tuned.

Mr. Harley · February 2, 2003, 03:02

zsozso - I hadn't even considered your idea, I had assumed directly programming the AI algorithm. I wish you could still legally run a dissassembler on it

Your idea would make a quick customized faction AI much faster, as in small map/Hive, which eventually could be assembled into a larger universal program. Nice idea.

If we can get enough posts on this thread, I'll send an email to Firaxis to look at the support for this idea. Unless somebody chimes in who they already know (and like

). Thanks.

spartak · February 2, 2003, 05:58

I'm all in favour. Unless firaxis are still making money from the game (which I don't think they are) they owe it to their fanbs to allow someone else to make the AI work.

Archaic · February 2, 2003, 06:22

As I recall, didn't Firaxis already refuse a similar request quite some time ago?

Lazerus · February 2, 2003, 07:49

the AI does need some serious tuning, i haven't seen alpha centauri on any shelves in game stores around my area for a while, only seen it as jewel on the net so i doubt they're selling like they used to.

Clear Skies · February 2, 2003, 10:37

They still have a number of copies around on shelves in England (Game stores seem to keep a good stock), but Alien Crossfire can't be found for love nor money...

Sarxis · February 2, 2003, 16:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
As I recall, didn't Firaxis already refuse a similar request quite some time ago?

Probably; they're afraid someone might go and fix the remaining bugs and make SMAC(x) the perfect game.

ellie · February 2, 2003, 21:42

Hmm i bought a legal copy of alien crossfire.
It IS available for free download on a number of sites (i know one site bound to have it), but it feels wrong copying it

Ellie

zsozso · February 3, 2003, 08:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
As I recall, didn't Firaxis already refuse a similar request quite some time ago?

Was that request about opening the AI for programming by users, or giving out information on the game save format ? Because the later one is a much smaller request in terms of IP rights or work on their side. I mean, they must have some internal docs about the save format, so it is zero work to release that and they do not give away much IP with that either. Being in the software business myself, I wouldn't refuse the request for the format, but I would have some concerns about giving access to AI code.

So, maybe it is worth approaching them about the save format. Of course, that solution would not be so convenient for the players (requires saving/loading each turn), but at least it is a work-around. I'm sure a lot of players would be willing to take that much trouble for the benefit of playing against a decent AI.

We could even make the web version to learn, i.e. build up a knowledge base from the games it played and use tactics "borrowed" from players who won. This way the more we play it, the smarter it gets...

EmperorJay · February 3, 2003, 09:09

the real problem is the game itself, its just too complex to build areally good AI. (have you ever tried thinking about just WHY you do certain things? the facts you consider in that process are surely quite numerous....)

but it would certainly be possible to mdify the AI in a way that it learns using crawlers and defending against air-units or maybe executing proper attacks. It would still be week, becaus it isn't able to use any special tactics, but it would be some progress...

P.S.: the civ3 AI is only better, because the game easier to understand (-> crappy

)

P.P.S.: I'm sorry I had do spam

Mr. Harley · February 4, 2003, 09:04

EmperorJay, thanks for the post. Actually, it would not be that "hard" to write the AI, just moderately complex. My programming experience predates the Windows paradigm (secret project, increase economy +2, automatic status reports on enemy secret projects, +2 to probe attempts to sabotage enemy patents

)

What would be important is getting enough people involved for the various strategy/faction/world sizes to be covered. You are probably talking megabytes of added programming code, and a necessity to run it on the last generation of computers. Probably P3/Thunderbirds over 500mhz (preferably 1ghz) with 256MB of memory, again preferably DDR or Rambus (the Windows paradigm

).

It should not be difficult to write an AI that is faction specific, that takes into account all factors through the midgame. String them together, and you have a moderately successful AI. If the programming is done properly, it will be modular and you may have a master routine that calls the following subroutines - Large World, dry terraforming, Morgan, no neighbors. When neighbors are discovered, a threat analysis program could be called, with the options of peaceful, border guard, potential hostile, known hostile or war taking over the "no neighbors" subroutine.

A late game AI might be more difficult, I don't know for sure because my experience has been mostly solo, when the game is almost always decided by midgame, usually about the time Fusion Power and Helicopters are discovered. The AI still will be at a disadvantage compared to a experienced/skilled player, but set this kind of AI to transcend and even they will have a very tough time. Let's just say no more winning as Mirium in a solo Huge World transcend game