Croatian PM condemns Nazi salutes

[Bereta_Eder]

Croatia's prime minister has angrily condemned the use of Nazi slogans and salutes at a reception in the capital, Zagreb, for the national handball team.
Prime Minister Ivica Racan warned such behaviour "could not be tolerated in Croatia". Fascist salutes are unacceptable... and shame us in the eyes of Europe


Dozens of people in the crowd gave the salute - allegedly after nationalist folk singer Marko Perkovic Thompson shouted a slogan used by Croatian Nazis in World War II.

Last month, Croatian skier Ivica Kostelic had to apologise for remarks interpreted by some as pro-Nazi.

Strong following

Tens of thousands had gathered in Zagreb on Monday to celebrate the victory of the Croatian handball team over Germany in the world championship on Sunday.

"Fascist salutes are unacceptable everywhere in the civilised and democratic world, and such scenes... tarnish the victory of our handball players and shaming us in the eyes of Europe," Mr Racan said.


Team members each got around $14,000 for victory

"Croatia has long ago broken with its Nazi past."

It was reported in Croatian media that some of the handball players had insisted that Thompson - who has a strong following among nationalist Croats - should perform at the reception.

The media have mostly condemned the salutes, but an association of veterans defended the singer's words as a "traditional Croatian salute".

The government has given 100,000 kuna ($14,285) in prize money for each of the 17 members of the handball team for their victory in Portugal.

Last month, skier Ivica Kostelic apologised for comparing his state of mind before a race to that of a German soldier in 1941.

He said his comments were unfortunate and spoken under the influence of a war movie he had been watching.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2734419.stm


So THAT's why vetty was so happy about the Croatian handball victory....

[axi]

Áõôü ðåò ôï óôá "ðáëëçêÜñéá" ôçò Í.Ï.ÐÁ.... (ÍáæéóôéêÞ ÏñãÜíùóç Ðáíáèçíáúêïý.

ÔñïìÜñá ìáò...

[Sava]

Well it's good to see they finally have done this.

"Croatia has long ago broken with its Nazi past."

I wonder what this guy thinks is a long time. When Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia after the fall of the Soviet Union, they used their old flag that they used during the days of the Usteche and their Nazi alliance.

It is my dream that the Balkan countries can work through their past and unite. Throughout the 20th century, outside powers have meddled in Balkan affairs in an effort to keep this union from taking place. Nationalism on all sides is keeping a peaceful union from taking place. While I'm generally Pro-Serb, my grandmother was Croatian.

Again, it's good that this guy is condemning this, but I fear there is a large segment of Croatians that still support their Nazi past. Only time will remedy this. Hopefully, one day, the Serb's and Croat's can work together to unite. Peace is in everybody's interest.

[VetLegion]

http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/special-...isemitism.html

GREECE: Holocaust memorials vandalized in Greece and Italy, Bigotry Monitor, 07/02/2003

GREECE: Why Does the Greek Government Keep Silent on the Desecration of the Holocaust Memorial in Thessaloniki?, GHM, 05/02/2003

GREECE: Vandals attack Holocaust memorial in Greece, Ha'aretz/AP, 04/02/2003

GREECE: Characteristic anti-Semitic front page of extreme rightwing weekly "Alpha Ena" (18/ 1/2003), 30/01/2003

GREECE: They compare Sharon to Hitler. The Greek press is rife with anti-Semitism, but Athens is silent, Ha'aretz, 21/01/2003

[VetLegion]

HOLOCAUST MEMORIALS VANDALIZED IN GREECE AND ITALY
Two Reports on Greek Antisemitism Paint Gloomy Picture

Unidentified vandals spray-painted two swastikas on the Holocaust
memorial in Thessaloniki this past weekend, the Tel Aviv daily
"Ha'aretz" reported from the northern Greek city. The monument, near the
city's center, was unveiled in 1997 to honor local Jews killed in Nazi
concentration camps. Out of community of 80,000, only 5,000 survived.

David Saltiel, head of Thessaloniki's small Jewish community, described
the attack as "a saddening incident." The memorial had been vandalized
several times. Saltiel renewed calls on the government to declare an
annual day of remembrance for Greek Jews killed by the Nazis in World
War II. "Only a historic move will discourage these modern-day
messengers of racism," Saltiel said, according to the Associated Press.

Also last weekend, vandals struck in Italy, damaging in the
northern town of Cernobbio a monument to an Italian who saved Hungarian
Jews from the Holocaust, police said. The memorial was dedicated to
Giorgio Perlasca, who presented himself as the Spanish consul in
Budapest and issued protective passes, thus preventing the deportation
of several thousand Jews. Cernobbio police theorized that the defacement
was "random" rather than "antisemitic." However, "The New York Times"
pointed out that the incident came on the heels of Italy's Holocaust
Memorial Day, which included a widely publicized television movie about
Perlasca.

In Greece, the desecration of the memorial took place in a context of
increasing antisemitic attacks and growing hostility toward Israel as
well as Greece's Jewish community of 5,000 over the past six months, as
documented by two reports. One report was released last September by the
Central Board of Jewish Communities in Greece, and the other, in late
November, by the Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM), a non- governmental
association affiliated with the International Helsinki Federation for
Human Rights.

According to the Central Board of Jewish Communities of Greece, since
the start of the Palestinian intifada "a sharp sense of anti- Israeli
feelings has prevailed in Greek society, as expressed mainly in the
media." The report said that Greek news media promote the image of
Israel as a "Nazi country" that attacks "defenseless Palestinians."
Conversely, the actions of suicide bombers are received with
understanding as a tactic adopted by "persons in a state of despair."
The report said: "The anti-Israeli atmosphere has led to several
antisemitic incidents and vandalistic attacks in several Jewish
communities." For instance, on March 17, 2002, a column appeared in the
daily "Apogevmatini," that presented Greek Jewry as "apathetic and
languid," blaming it for "not taking a stand against the genocide of the
Palestinian people by [Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon." The column
compared the acts of the Israeli government to acts of the Nazi regime.
Two weeks later, on April 1, the daily "Eleftherotypia" published a
large caricature on page one below the headline "Holocaust 2." The
caricature showed an Israeli soldier in Nazi uniform, aiming a rifle at
a Palestinian dressed in the striped garb typical of Nazi concentration
camps. Similar illustrations have been published in most Greek
newspapers.

Also on April 1, a former foreign minister, Theodoros Pangalos, called
on members of parliament to boycott the celebration of Israel's
Independence Day at the Israeli embassy. Two weeks later, Pangalos wrote
an op-ed piece in the daily "Vima" attacking Greek Jews for "not having
protested against the massacre of the Palestinians," and suggested that
"many of the Israeli soldiers now killing Palestinians may be the
grandchildren of those Jews who were rescued during the Holocaust by
Greek Christians."

The report documented antisemitic incidents such as graffiti daubed on
the Holocaust memorial in Eubea on March 30; the distribution of written
material in Corfu with slogans such as "Zionists=Murderers" on April 11;
the destruction of headstones in a Jewish cemetery in Ioannina on April
15 and the desecration of the Holocaust memorial site in Thessaloniki on
the same day; the desecration of the Jewish cemetery in Macedonia on
April 16; and vandalism of the Holocaust memorial site on Rhodes on July
2, one week after it opened to the public.

In the second report, the Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM) focused on the
deterioration in the attitude of the news media toward the Jewish
community, and it reached gloomy conclusions. Since the start of the
Palestinian intifada, the report noted, the Greek media has been
pervaded by "blatant antisemitism" expressed by "various influential
persons from the worlds of politics, labor, education, and culture." The
report found that the September 11 attacks in the United States led to
an increase in antisemitic incidents.

According to the GHM report, prominent media outlets in Greece,
led by newspapers identified with the mainstream, have been "flooded"
with
antisemitic articles and caricatures. In several articles, Israel's
military actions were compared to acts of the Nazi regime and Sharon to
Hitler. The report condemned those "who use inappropriate analogies to
the Holocaust and Nazi acts." It also criticized a statement on November
11, 2002 by Christos Protopapas, the Greek government spokesman, to the
effect that "it is the right of every cartoonist and journalist to
express criticism," while noting that freedom of the press "is not a
license for irresponsibility." At the same time, the GHM justified to a
certain degree the sharp criticism of Israel, stating that "Israel is at
the forefront of the contempt for human rights, humanitarian justice and
the upholding of international judicial criteria -- and should (but
regretfully does not) be brought to justice for all of the above."

On January 21, "Ha'aretz" headlined its article on the two reports: "The
Greek Press Is Rife with Antisemitism, but Athens Is Silent." In a
statement issued on February 5, the GHM expressed its puzzlement as to
why the government had not condemned the desecration of the Holocaust
memorial in Thessaloniki. The statement noted that on February 3, the
head of the local Jewish community urged the president and the prime
minister to declare Holocaust Remembrance Day a national event. On the
same day, Thessaloniki Prefect Panayote Psomiades and Member of
Parliament Fotis Kouvelis condemned the desecration, as did Mayor
Vasilis Papageorgopoulos, and the ambassadors or consuls of the United
States, Germany, and Spain.
* * * *

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5071

[VetLegion]

And how Greek antisemitism is older then world war II ...

The Effect of the 1923 Greek-Orthodox - Turkish-Muslim Population Transfer
on the Jews of Thessaloniki
by Yitzchak Kerem, Aristotle University, Thessaloniki, Greece

For most of 450 years since the 1492 Spanish expulsion, the Jews comprised either a majority or plurality of the total population of the city of Salonika (Thessaloniki). With the arrival of the Greek-Orthodox Asia Minor refugees to Salonika, the demography of the city changed and the Jews lost their stature and majority status.
The Greek-Orthodox refugees brought to Salonika a deep-rooted anti-Semitic tradition which had been pronounced in more than fifty blood libels in Asia Minor in the 19th century and mainly in the latter half of that century. With the advent of mid-19th century industrialization in Salonika, the Jewish industrialists of the city relied primarily on Greek- Orthodox labor and enjoyed cordial relations with them, except for an occasional outbreak of Greek-Orthodox religious fanaticism, or criminal action.
Soon after the Greek-Orthodox arrived in Salonika in ca. 1923, there began a movement amongst their ranks to antagonize the large local Jewish population and delineate its stature. The 100,000 Greek-Orthodox refugees not only outnumbered the dwindling Jewish population of ca. 56,000, but they began to initiate legislation against the latter. In the Salonikan municipal council, a law was intentionally passed to harm Jewish economic life by prohibiting work on Sunday; thus forcing the Jews to either break the Sabbath or lose a day's pay.
Toward the end of the 1920s, the Salonikan Greek-language daily Makedonia incited against the local Jewish population and in particular against the Jewish Maccabi youth sports movement. In June 1931, Makedonia falsely accused Maccabi member Isaac Cohen of going to Bulgaria for a Macedonian nationalist conference, when in actuality he went to Bulgaria for a regional Maccabi meeting at a different date. The false insinuation led to rioting by the EEE (National Union of Greece) and Asian Minor refugees against Jews throughout the city. The mobs burned down the Campbell neighborhood of Jewish refugees from the famous 1917 fire and in the aftermath 15,000-18,000 Salonikan Jews moved to Eretz-Israel and another 15,000 moved to France during the years 1932-1938. In the Greek parliament, Greek President Venizelos also falsely blamed the Maccabi movement and Isaac Cohen of conspiring against Greece. In the 1932 Veria trial, the Greek-Orthodox anti-Semitic inciters were acquitted. The court blamed the newspaper Makedonia for being responsible for inciting the riots, but the rioters were acquitted on the premise that their actions were in the spirit of patriotism and their homeland was endangered.

http://www.yvelia.com/kolhakehila/ar...m#kerem-koretz

[VetLegion]

A front page from Greek rightwing media. I dont know Greek but they are calling prime minister jewish as an insult!

[VetLegion]

more about typical Greek silence when it comes to condemning crimes.

PRESS RELEASE

5 February 2003

TOPIC: WHY DOES THE GREEK GOVERNMENT KEEP SILENT ON THE DESECRATION OF THE HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL IN THESSALONIKI?

Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM) expresses its puzzlement as to why the government has not condemned as yet the desecration of the Jewish Holocaust memorial in Thessaloniki. This sad anti-Semitic incident took place on Saturday, 1 February; on Monday, 3 February, the head of the Jewish Community of Thessaloniki condemned openly the incident and called the President of Democracy and the Prime Minister to declare the Holocaust remembrance day as a national anniversary. On the same day, the Prefect of Thessaloniki, Panayote Psomiades, condemned the desecration of the memorial. Fotis Kouvelis, an MP with Synaspismos, condemned the incident by tabling a question to Parliament, on 4 February. Today, an announcement condemning the incident was issued by the New Democracy branch in Thessaloniki. Moreover, the city’s Mayor, Vasilis Papageorgopoulos, as well as ambassadors or consuls of the US, Germany and Spain, also condemned the incident during an emotional memorial service. All the events were reported in an exemplary manner by the Macedonian News Agency and were covered fully by some other newspapers. So, what can the Greek government possibly wait for? There are numerous examples when the government rushes to condemn –on the same day– any publications in foreign newspapers or international organizations reports that make reference to anti-Semitism in Greece.

[VetLegion]

The point? Paiktina do me a favour and drop the Croatia-is-nazi thing, ok?

As you can see I can play this game too

But it is no fun at all

[VetLegion]

Oh, and since I went through all this trouble to search for all of this: http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/bhr/engl...itism_2002.rtf

Huge document I'll save to hard disk as a reserve to use if need arises

(hopefully not!)

some 'cute' quotes:

Traditional negative Jewish stereotypes abound in Greek culture. An EU-funded Lambrakis Research Foundation 1993 survey showed that 57% of Greeks have an aversion to Jews. Anti-Semitic remarks or “observations” are voiced in causal conversations on all levels of society and in the mainstream press and electronic media. Often visitors to Greece, including those of Greek origin, are shocked by what they hear.

Characteristically, a woman writes to the weekly Athens News (16/3/01), “I am Jewish and I have never encountered so much racism as I have in Greece. In Mykonos last year, a taxi driver – on discovering that my husband was in the shampoo business in Eastern Europe (and of course not realizing that we were Jewish) – said ‘if they have Jews there, you could kill them and make them into soap for your shampoo business’. (…) We have found the same, be it with a taxi driver, dentist, businessmen etc.”

[Bereta_Eder]

Yuck. Thanks for making me puke Vetty.
Point taken.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Yuck. Thanks for making me puke Vetty.
Point taken.

Did pattycakes just concede a point about his beloved Greece!?!

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh sure. That thread was just about trolling my little vetty anyway but he finally flipped and spent, what, 30 minutes searching human rights organizations for anti-semitism in Greece
While similar anti-semitism finding can be found about any other country that doesn't make it any less ugly.

[Propaganda]

Yugoslavia needs to be reformed, damnit. Milosevic needs to be given another try.

[axi]

In the Salonikan municipal council, a law was intentionally passed to harm Jewish economic life by prohibiting work on Sunday

Oh, the criminals! They instituted a 6 working day week, the bloody jew-eating commies! How can a Jewish capitalist make enough profit form a 6 working day week?

I believe that all antagonisms between the Jews and the refugees in Salonika stemmed from the vast class differences between the two. The first were rich, the last were dirt poor. And of course in Asia Minor, the Jews tended to avoid any prosecution from the Turks, while the Armenians and Greeks were at the receiving end of several pogroms.

As for our PM, it's his name that does it. "Simitis" means "semite" (he is Orthodox like everyone else of course). If you had a PM named "Aryan", would noone ever mockingly accuse him of being a Nazi?

[Datajack Franit]

Hail Janica!

[Arrian]

What Che said.



Paiktis, are you feeling ok? Are you sick? Dizzy? Light-headed? Or just having an uncharacteristic attack of reasonableness?

-Arrian

[LaRusso]

well, croatian pm condemned nazi salutes. that is a cool development in croatia, previous PMs never condemned such things. still, croatian PM is just as scared as our PM when it comes to really tackling the problem of inherited security structures

[Az]

‘if they have Jews there, you could kill them and make them into soap for your shampoo business’.

DAMN.

[Az]

And of course in Asia Minor, the Jews tended to avoid any prosecution from the Turks, while the Armenians and Greeks were at the receiving end of several pogroms.

The jews avoided pogroms?! Bastards, the lot of them.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by axi
I believe that all antagonisms between the Jews and the refugees in Salonika stemmed from the vast class differences between the two. The first were rich, the last were dirt poor.

Well there was plenty of antaginosm between the mainland Greeks and the Greeks of Asia Minor too you know.

It was a big shock for a small country to suddendly take in 1 million and more refugees.

There were even fights between them.

Plus we mainland Greeks were savages compared to the Asian Minor Greeks. They were cosmopolitan, we were backwater completely.

They were also well versed in trade and businesses.
Not suprising considering where they came from Constantinople, Smyrna etc. big cosmopolitan, trade oriented cities.

This actually helped Greece "bolster up" and it helped escape the "surrounding balkan misery" by giving it better growth rates.

In the same time Turkey suffered ecnomically since lost virtually overnight its middle class!!!! Since the vast majority of it were Greeks and Armenians.

Very interesting subject.

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh and Salonica was called by the Jews "The Second Jerusalem".

[Az]

yes. The turks were kind to us.

[Bereta_Eder]

When it was again Greek actually.

And how do you repay the Palestinians

[Az]

you know, the jews lived in Saloniki for around 350 years before you gained independence. It took you less than a century.

oh, **** it, I am too tired for this ****. It's 1 AM, for crying out loud.

[Bereta_Eder]

Well first came the Italians.
We fought them.
Then came the Germans we fought them too.
But we got occupied and 500.000 Greeks died in that war, 80.000 of which were Jews. (in Thessaloniki)


So I think it is a bit lame to say: "it took us less than a century"

[Bereta_Eder]

Glad to see Palestinians more resilient though

[Az]

Well, to be fair, it's not like we have a fair comparison.
Unlike the way you treated us, we actually let them live.

[Bereta_Eder]

Those between 15 and 60 years old at least

[Bereta_Eder]

But I also think Pals last longer