Can we Create an America that can Lead the World - Page 14

Velociryx · February 12, 2003, 18:53

Since the majority of people in the world have brown eyes, I think we should say that "all brown eyed people are dripping with blood."

And of course, Hitler had his master race, so we can add to that all "blonde haired, blue eyed people are dripping with blood too."

Since we're all irrevocably unredeemable, let's just take our remaining nukes and light this candle, why don't we? We've still got a sufficient number to ignite the atmosphere of planet Earth and burn it off....that should take care of business quite nicely, AND it has the side benefit of "resetting" everything, so it's all nice and fair. Everybody gets the same outcome! WhoooHooo!

But, before we do that, I'm going to go to Kroger on the way to my grandmother's. While there, I'm going to explot a few grocers (who in turn, exploited a few farmers) and buy some dinner stuff, then go up and let my grandmother exploit me when I cook dinner for her.

I'm a scurvy capitalist dog!

-=Vel=-

Az · February 12, 2003, 18:55

Quote:

Because something may have morally despicable origins hundreds of years ago does not mean that in the present it continues to be morally despicable.

The United States of America, as a country, has done some seriously awful things (genocide of Native Americans, Slavery, colonial escapades during & following the Spanish American War, the excesses of the Cold War, etc). However, that does not mean the country is unredeemable. Policy can be changed. Amends can be made.

How's this one: all nations are dripping with blood! Lets kill everyone! YEEEHHHHHAAAAAAWWWW!

Did I say that capitalism is morally despicable? Who's capitalism?
I just think that in the current conditions, a socialist system would be a system that would create much more happiness, would progress humanity, and make it happier.

Willem · February 12, 2003, 18:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel

Why can't I try to persuade you into a different way of thinking? are you close minded?

It seems to me that advocatiing life in a small commune is being rather open minded. Not to many people would consider that as a lifestyle choice. And it does work for some people. It just can't be applied on a large scale.

Willem · February 12, 2003, 19:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel

Did I say that capitalism is morally despicable? Who's capitalism?
I just think that in the current conditions, a socialist system would be a system that would create much more happiness, would progress humanity, and make it happier.

Only the people themselves can know what would make them happy, why not let them decide? After all, if you get it wrong, then you might end up making them more miserable than they are now. And so far the concept hasn't shown itself to be very successful. It may be a nice ideal but it's not realistic, especially considering our current conditions.

Az · February 12, 2003, 19:08

Quote:

People are told what to wear, what to eat, what to think, what luxuries they will consume

Tell me, did it hurt when you pulled it out of your ass?

Willem · February 12, 2003, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel

Tell me, did it hurt when you pulled it out of your ass?

No private fashion designers allowed, so everyone has to wear what the government produces. Have you ever seen pictures of China during Mao's time? They all looked the same. Food was grown on collective farms and some bureacrat determined what was to be planted. The people had to accept was provided.

I think the "what they think" bit is pretty obvious, follow the party line or get imprisoned and/or shot. No private importers/exporters so the people had to accept whatever luxury the government gave them. "Oh don't like coffee? To bad, we just got a really good deal from some oppressed coffee exporting nation."

Az · February 12, 2003, 19:26

Me thinks you've never been to the SU.

Willem · February 12, 2003, 19:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
Me thinks you've never been to the SU.

No, but I have met people who came from there. Since you obviously have, can you honestly say they had as much choice in these areas as someone from France, or England, or especially the US? Where they as readily accessible as those other countries? Which system would you say is better at satisfying the varied material comforts of it's people?

Iron Chancellor · February 12, 2003, 19:46

Speaking of pains in the @$$, how was it living in a system when people periodically experienced shortages of bathroom tissue? Oh, you never experienced that? Tell me, what was your father's job? Was he a factory worker? A welder? An iron monger? My guess is that he was a factory manager, or higher. Incidentally, what country do you live in today?

Economics is not, repeat, NOT, a zero-sum game. If it were, the only way some could be living in highrises, sipping Champagne and planning their tennis matches would be if 90% of the population were either dead or living in holes in the ground. And yet, the population has grown drastically and the standards of living in EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY are growing. Infant mortality and life expectancy have dropped remarkably, in both developed and undeveloped countries. Prosperity has come to every single person on earth, and while some are still incredibly rich, and some are still dirt poor, they are better off than 20, 50, 100, 200, or 1000 years ago.

flash9286 · February 12, 2003, 22:07

we already do lead the world where have u been

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 22:11

On what indicators? On most quality of life indicators you lag way behind.

DinoDoc · February 12, 2003, 22:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
On most quality of life indicators you lag way behind.

Only the Norwegiens and Canadians are ahead of us.

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 22:15

Crap - you are way, way, down most lists.

DinoDoc · February 12, 2003, 22:28

Go troll your own thread, Horse. This one has been claimed by the commies.

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 22:30

You're miles ahead in military and economic power but well down the list on most social indicators.

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 22:32

A good indicator is the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI). It only measured USA previously, but they were suppose to include other nations eventually.

DinoDoc · February 12, 2003, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
You're miles ahead in military and economic power but well down the list on most social indicators.

Not according to the UN. We are even ahead of you Aussies.

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 22:36

Nah - your quality of life and well being indexes suck.

DinoDoc · February 12, 2003, 22:41

That's crap and you know it. We are in the top ten.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/hdi.pdf

PS I made a mistake earlier. The Aussies are ahead of the US and Canada after all.

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 22:47

Japan used to be in the top three, now the're #3.

What is the major component of this indicator?

Velociryx · February 12, 2003, 22:55

We also have....how many times the population of Australia, Canada, and the other folks ahead of us?

Given the sheer number of people who live here, I'd say we're doing pretty d@mned well!

-=Vel=-

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 22:57

The wierd thing is we are only about 6th in GDP pre capita too.

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 23:00

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's crap and you know it. We are in the top ten.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/hdi.pdf

PS I made a mistake earlier. The Aussies are ahead of the US and Canada after all.

DinoDoc · February 12, 2003, 23:02

I thought that you'd like that.

Ted Striker · February 12, 2003, 23:06

Actually Duncan the last numbers I saw had us out in front by a mile. (Well, like 2-4K per person).

Alexander's Horse · February 12, 2003, 23:11

Money isn't the only indicator.

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 23:14

In 2000 our GDP per Capita was about 34K, There are 4-5 nations above that. I'll get the link.

edit: changed 36K to 34K

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 23:17

http://millenniumindicators.un.org/u...al/inc-eco.htm

Ted Striker · February 12, 2003, 23:38

Man this feels like one of Roland's threads.

The CIA factbook lists the 2001 PPP numbers, probably the USA has gone down since then:

Luxemburg $43,400
USA $36,300
San Marino $34,600
Switzerland $31,100
Norway $30,800

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...elds/2004.html

Iron Chancellor · February 12, 2003, 23:43

What does Luxemburg make or do, other than postage stamps? (No offense to Luxemburgers)