AI Cheating again.

Daz · February 10, 2003, 03:45

The AI always knows which city you left undefended. It has no way of knowing by exchanging maps or exploring. It just loads up that galley and sails right to the city. Even if its invisible from sea.

theNiceOne · February 10, 2003, 04:00

Yes, this is true. The AI has full knowledge of map data, including position of all exisiting and future resources as well as the location of all cities, units and barb camps.

This is long known, and is actually the only AI cheat that has been confirmed. Check The complete cheat guide thread over at CFC to learn a bit more about real and (mostly) non-existant AI cheats.

Tattila the Hun · February 10, 2003, 04:39

Ah, but you have a Brain.

redhat · February 10, 2003, 05:05

Yeah!

Harovan · February 10, 2003, 05:27

The AI has just no fog of war, it doesn't have full map knowledge. There's a difference. It doesn't see areas of the map, which it has not yet discovered. But once it discovered a part of the map, or gets knowledge through a map trade, it sees all on this part of the map. Units (including those in cities), resources, huts and barbarian encampments. That's the only real cheat in the game.

theNiceOne · February 10, 2003, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The AI has just no fog of war, it doesn't have full map knowledge. There's a difference. It doesn't see areas of the map, which it has not yet discovered. But once it discovered a part of the map, or gets knowledge through a map trade, it sees all on this part of the map. Units (including those in cities), resources, huts and barbarian encampments. That's the only real cheat in the game.

This isn't correct. I have done some tests and Catt has done similar tests which shows that the AI know undiscovered map.

Ex: I made a scenario with an island formed as a cross with an AI city and settler in the middle. The four arms of the cross was almost identical, but if I added one good square to one of the arms, the AI settler would move in that direction on turn 1 - even though it should have no knowledge of the terrain in any of the arms.

Similarily, if I added a resource to one of the arms, the AI settler would start out in that direction - even if the resource was a future resource that wouldn't appear in 1000 years.

So the AI know the value of the terrain around it, even before it has got any maps of the terrain.

Harovan · February 10, 2003, 07:41

This test doesn't convince me yet. There is a difference between "knowing the map", i.e. the locations of terrain types, units, huts, camps etc., and "evaluating city sites", which gives only a number and the settler moves in the general direction of the highest number. I will run a similar test, but add some barbarians in the "good" direction. If the (undefended) settler goes there anyway, the AI doesn't know the map (in this case, unit locations).

If it would be true, it would be a game breaker for me.

theNiceOne · February 10, 2003, 08:04

What you suggest, could turn out to be a test of whether the AI is smart enough not to send the settler into the spear of a barbarian.

You could try with one of your units blocking the terrain and see if the AI knew this and therefore moved in another direction.

Zachriel · February 10, 2003, 09:15

Quote:

Originally posted by theNiceOne

This isn't correct. I have done some tests and Catt has done similar tests which shows that the AI know undiscovered map.

I once believed otherwise, but have become convinced by the weight of evidence that the AI knows all the map, all the time. However, it simulates ignorance quite well sometimes.

steven8r · February 10, 2003, 14:16

Whether the AI knows all the map or not, I just assume that it does and use that to my advantage.

Follow AI settlers around for good resource spots.

Leave your rearward city undefended. The AI will concentrate his attack there. Once his units are moving toward that city, garrison it and ungarrison another. They will start toward the new city. You can play 'Musical Cities' many turns to allow you to build up horse units to harrass the AI units trapsing through your territory.

My point is this: The AI knows. Knowing this, you can adjust for it.

Ricardo · February 10, 2003, 14:20

Simple check to confirm AI 'Full Map Knowledge'

1. Create a map solely consisting of mountain terrain.
2. Load scenario, skip turn.

All AI Civ's cease to exist.

They must know that there's no place to settle.

wrgj · February 12, 2003, 01:00

If the player can see a .mod file map before starting, why shouldn't the AI? There is the possibility that the AI doesn't know the map for random map games.

Also, even if the AI has the original data on the terrain, they do not know if you are there/nearby or not. Thus, knowledge of "your area" is still valuable while already knowing the terrain and they will (1) still want to trade for it, and (2) not go there with a settler, as opposed to another checked-out location, if they simply do not know if you are there or not.

Traelin · February 12, 2003, 14:53

Even if the AI does indeed cheat, who cares? We have a huge advantage over the AI as is, given that we can think. Plus, we can cheat in a much more advantageous way than the AI can -- we can reload.

minke19104 · February 13, 2003, 15:03

I thought the AI "cheats" by getting free units when it creates a new town??

Panag · February 13, 2003, 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by minke19104
I thought the AI "cheats" by getting free units when it creates a new town??

hi ,

check the editor , there you can see what the AI gets for free on its levels etc , ....

have a nice day

edit ; typo

theNiceOne · February 14, 2003, 04:27

Quote:

Originally posted by minke19104 I thought the AI "cheats" by getting free units when it creates a new town??

No, it don't. No such claim has ever been proven through a save game, and if it did it would be easy to prove.