Has Belgium gone mad? - Page 8

Panag · February 14, 2003, 11:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Dry

Yes, I have read those part (a little too long, I've skipped some parts).
I still don't know what to think about it. Truth? Propaganda? Probably a little bit of both. Truth, but with only one point of view.
The opinion that Israel behave badly in occupied territory is widespread here, and ressurgence of anti-semitism is of course linked to it.
I would like to answer this longer and try to describe how it's difficult to keep his head cool between accusations of anti-semitism and anti-arabism, but I have no time. I still have to work (I'm at work: read is no problem, write takes more time).
See you monday.

hi ,

its a translation of a sworn statement , backed up with video and audio , .....

just the fact that boutmans spoke in public with members of hezbollah and the plo represantive in BXL about how Israel is one big concentration camp and that only the gaschambers are missing , ... well the least you can say about it is that its wrong, ....

the same week the belgian ambassador ( geens ) used the same words , ......

allez een goed weekend hé

have a nice day

Traianvs · February 14, 2003, 12:00

Quote:

Originally posted by CerberusIV
I find this quite amazing. A 183 post thread about Belgium, possibly the most boring country in the EU and one most people simply go through to get somewhere else.

One dubious legal decision (and the Belgians certainly don't have a monopoly on those!) and Belgium is suddenly controversial - brilliant!

Pity it won't do much to attract Israeli tourists but you can't win them all.

Oh-my-god

A typical thought of someone accidentally living in a bigger country! (jezus what are borders anyway, we're all human, and we can cross borders freely, in the EU that is) Feeling a bit superior again I see?

You're saying that you once went to Ostend, oh my god, Ostend sure is Belgium... in fact Ostend is a port city that is not famed for its wealth here in Belgium (it used to be thriving, but nowaydays it's less important). I could say the same thing when I went to Dover: a grey and ugly fecking city where nobody seemed happy.

And since I've been in GB a lot already, I would even say this: English people are dead ugly, they mostly live in big identical sleazy apartment blocks, you guys don't know fashion and you hooligans are wicked in head. Hmm let me see, we have a much higher standard of living than you guys, better social securities etc etc.. You see, to me England is unapealing as well mate

I hope you see now what your generalization brings: complete and utter shite. So keep it for yourself if you are so inclined to think we have no meaning whatsoever in this world, and if you think every issue in this world should be decided by the US, the uk, Russia and some other powermongers.

Traianvs · February 14, 2003, 12:07

sorry, posted my message twice

Ming · February 14, 2003, 12:09

It's getting a little TOO personal in this thread.

Remember, discuss and argue the issues.

DO NOT ATTACK OTHER MEMBERS.

I see some restrictions in SOME people's future...

CerberusIV · February 14, 2003, 12:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Trajanus

Oh-my-god

A typical thought of someone accidentally living in a bigger country! (jezus what are borders anyway, we're all human, and we can cross borders freely, in the EU that is) Feeling a bit superior again I see?

You're saying that you once went to Ostend, oh my god, Ostend sure is Belgium... in fact Ostend is a port city that is not famed for its wealth here in Belgium (it used to be thriving, but nowaydays it's less important). I could say the same thing when I went to Dover: a grey and ugly fecking city where nobody seemed happy.

And since I've been in GB a lot already, I would even say this: English people are dead ugly, they mostly live in big identical sleazy apartment blocks, you guys don't know fashion and you hooligans are wicked in head. Hmm let me see, we have a much higher standard of living than you guys, better social securities etc etc.. You see, to me England is unapealing as well mate

I hope you see now what your generalization brings: complete and utter shite. So keep it for yourself if you are so inclined to think we have no meaning whatsoever in this world, and if you think every issue in this world should be decided by the US, the uk, Russia and some other powermongers.

I'm sorry you are having a bad day. Perhaps you will not be so stressed tomorrow.

Traianvs · February 14, 2003, 12:11

What do you expect with insults... you will only see me get annoyed when people say shitty things about me, I won't start trashing other people...

and Cerberus, I'm having a great day, just got my exam results and they kicked your ass big time

Ming · February 14, 2003, 12:16

ENOUGH WITH THE PERSONAL CRAP!

WHAT DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT MY LAST POST.

I see SOME people are just one more post away from a restriction...

DaShi · February 14, 2003, 12:18

Ming, please stay on topic.

Oerdin · February 14, 2003, 12:25

Quote:

Originally posted by dannubis
NATO is a defensive organisation... if one of its members declares war on another country without prior consulting well ...

Besides, turkey has already a large part of its military present along its southern borders... you know, the kurds live there ...

And for another thing, a large part of the american reinforcements are being shipped to the gulf via Antwerp. As it is stipulated by the NATO treaty the Belgian governement gives free passage to these troops.
So we abide by nato's rules and we don't twist them into our advantage each time we have a political reason to do so.

The Turks aren't asking you to send troops but they are asking to pool alliance resources so they can get three very specific things. The alliance treaty allows for alliance assets to be used for "reasonable defensive measures" yet three states have blocked Turkey from doing this. Powell is not known as an alarmist but even he's gotten up and said France, Belgium, and Germany appear to be violation of the NATO treaty.

They keep saying the difference will be worked out but it appears a few left wing politicos are out to make reelection points even if it weakens the institution of NATO.

Oerdin · February 14, 2003, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozz
Anti-ballistic missiles treay ring a bell? NAFTA?

ABM was terminated by religiously following the self abrogation clause with in the treaty. The NAFTA wood & paper dispute is being resolved in the arbitration panel exactly as spelled out in the treaty. In neither case was a treaty broken.

Also if you will please reread my previous post you will see your argument about how the U.S. should be attacked by other NATO states just doesn't work.

Spiffor · February 14, 2003, 12:36

Chirac isn't left-wing by any standard

Panag · February 14, 2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin

The Turks aren't asking you to send troops but they are asking to pool alliance resources so they can get three very specific things. The alliance treaty allows for alliance assets to be used for "reasonable defensive measures" yet three states have blocked Turkey from doing this. Powell is not known as an alarmist but even he's gotten up and said France, Belgium, and Germany appear to be violation of the NATO treaty.

They keep saying the difference will be worked out but it appears a few left wing politicos are out to make reelection points even if it weakens the institution of NATO.

hi ,

the two main things the turcs and americans have asked are patriot's and awacs , ....

as a prevention of an attack from iraq , ... just like in the first gulfwar , ....

have a nice day

dannubis · February 14, 2003, 12:42

Nope ... The only thing the americans want from the nato countries is to have a political excuse to attack Iraq.

dannubis · February 14, 2003, 12:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin

The Turks aren't asking you to send troops but they are asking to pool alliance resources so they can get three very specific things. The alliance treaty allows for alliance assets to be used for "reasonable defensive measures" yet three states have blocked Turkey from doing this. Powell is not known as an alarmist but even he's gotten up and said France, Belgium, and Germany appear to be violation of the NATO treaty.

They keep saying the difference will be worked out but it appears a few left wing politicos are out to make reelection points even if it weakens the institution of NATO.

The problem with the american governement today is that when you have to call Mr. Powel the most left wing element in your crew, you have a very, very right wing governement...

By the way, how much votes is bush going to get by dropping bombs on bagdad...

Panag · February 14, 2003, 12:51

Quote:

Originally posted by dannubis
Nope ... The only thing the americans want from the nato countries is to have a political excuse to attack Iraq.

nope , the turcs asked for support and protection under article four of the nato prime directive , ....

Datajack Franit · February 14, 2003, 13:00

Trajanus

dannubis · February 14, 2003, 13:02

Sorry, i don't buy that. If the americans are so eager to get at iraq, then they could have provided (as they undoubtedly have done) sufficient defensive means to the countries which they are going to use as strike bases.

and it can be discussed whether or not article 4 is applicable to this specific demand in thiese specific circumstances...

DinoDoc · February 14, 2003, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap
But it does allow Cuban exiles to suit the Cuban government and its officials for a host of issues

I'm not saying what the US will or won't do in the suit. Governments do a lot of stupid things. We are getting an object lesson of that driven home in the capitals of the US, France, Germany, & Belgium. I was merely stating what I would do with the suit.

Panag · February 14, 2003, 13:08

hi ,

the intresting is that there are courtcases against fidel , saddam and yasser , yet for more the three years now they have not touched these , ......

have a nice day

Oerdin · February 14, 2003, 13:13

Quote:

Originally posted by dannubis
Nope ... The only thing the americans want from the nato countries is to have a political excuse to attack Iraq.

And giving Gas masks, Patriot anti-missile systems, and radar planes to Turkey would do that how?

Traianvs · February 14, 2003, 13:53

Quote:

the intresting is that there are courtcases against fidel , saddam and yasser , yet for more the three years now they have not touched these , ......

they also haven't touched Sharons case up till now, and besides how do you know they haven't touched those particular cases... do you think they let a lawsuit such as those lie around just like that?

Panag · February 14, 2003, 13:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Trajanus

they also haven't touched Sharons case up till now, and besides how do you know they haven't touched those particular cases... do you think they let a lawsuit such as those lie around just like that?

there have been several hearings , meetings , etc , .... in the Sharon case , none so far in the other , ....

KrazyHorse · February 15, 2003, 15:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
The NAFTA wood & paper dispute is being resolved in the arbitration panel exactly as spelled out in the treaty.

The US government has been attempting to "solve" the softwood dispute for the last decade by imposing preliminary tariffs for 6 months or a year at a time before it loses the ensuing court case.

DinoDoc · February 15, 2003, 15:30

Remove your illegal subsidies and the problem will be solved.

KrazyHorse · February 15, 2003, 15:33

What subsidies?

We're not doing anything illegal until a court says we are.

KrazyHorse · February 15, 2003, 15:35

The US has brought the same damn case forward something like 5 times in the last decade and has lost the final decision 5 times.

KrazyHorse · February 15, 2003, 15:36

I love how the US proposals are always of the form "do business exactly the way we do business".

You have free-market on the brain...

DinoDoc · February 15, 2003, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
We're not doing anything illegal until a court says we are.

The dispute-settlement panel findings officially adopted by the WTO on November 1 of last year said that the Canadian provincial government sale of public lands timber to Canadian lumber producers amounted to an illegal subsidy.

Sava · February 15, 2003, 15:45

the WTO can suck it

KrazyHorse · February 15, 2003, 15:47

Preliminary finding. Final decision has not yet been made. And IIRC, the required level of proof for a preliminary finding is a lot lower. This has happened before, too.

The US' continued actions in this case resemble extortion more than a legitimate trade suit.

It's an attempted strangulation by litigation.