Which UU do you think is best?

Artifex · February 15, 2003, 19:31

Roman Legion (iron) 3-3-1 *30 shields

or

Celt Gallic Swordsman (iron) 3-2-2 *50 shields

ChrisiusMaximus · February 15, 2003, 19:48

At the moment Im playing as the Celts quite a bit and I love the Gallic Swordsmen, but prior to PTW my favourite was the Legions of Rome.

mrmitchell · February 15, 2003, 23:16

Dunno.

Probably the Gallic Swordsman as it has mobility and attacking units don't really need defense, but then again it is more expensive.

Flip a coin.

WarpStorm · February 15, 2003, 23:40

Sipahi. Yes, they are expensive, but if you make a beeline for them you will have a unit that is awesome for the half of the Middle Ages and up until Infantry become common in the Industrial Age. Put them in an Army to get Blitz and they are even better.

PLATO · February 15, 2003, 23:57

I agree Warpstorm. Sipahi are the real deal. The key is to get them early. The domination is worth the cost.

notyoueither · February 16, 2003, 07:03

I'd rather have 5 Legions than 3 Gal Swords.

notyoueither · February 16, 2003, 07:03

I suspect that Caesar felt the same way.

WarpStorm · February 16, 2003, 11:10

Of those two, I'd agree with NYE's assessment, 3 Legions will be a better deal than 3 Gallic Swordsmen.

Dominae · February 16, 2003, 11:31

I hold by my early assessment (when PTW first came out) that the Numidian Mercs. are a tier 1 UU. The AI simply does not know how to deal with them. They're around and useful for the most critical parts of the game. They're flexible. They need not blow an early GA to be useful. They're just as useful as Swordsmen, have the same cost but do not require Iron. Against human opponents, their "deterrent" effect directly supports Carthage's traits (Industrious/Commercial - builder). And if the deterrent effect does not work, they repel attackers just as well as they promise to.

And they look darn cool.

Dominae

Ancyrean · February 16, 2003, 12:28

I would also say Sipahi. You rule the game as soon as they become available. They make up for whatever advantage other civs might have had in the time before their arrival

But in ancient times in my opinion legion is the most versatile. Num Mercs are kings of defence, and that's divine for builders (I still have a high degree of respect for hoplite as well, even after the advent of Num Mercs). While Num Mercs can make it easier in a supportive role to win a war, you can in all likelihood win a war only with legions, and the difference is essential.

As for Gallic Swords, it all depends whether you can churn out a meaningful number of them in a conflict situation. A stack of 10 Gallic Swordsmen would probably speel doom for the closest 3 or 4 enemy cities

Azeem · February 16, 2003, 15:08

Judging by the assessments on the Numidian Mercs, I'd say they're the best for multiplay. But for single play, I like using Chinese Riders, Arab Ansar Warriors, or Japanese Samurai. I don't really have favorite UUs. I've never tried Ottoman Sipahis, but I ought to try that sometime.

Master Zen · February 16, 2003, 15:57

Definitely the Sipahi! or the Beserker

The Roman legion comes a close second although I usually don't play aggressive in the ancient era. The problem with the Berserker is that its no longer so good when your opponents get Cavalry, but if you can take advantage of this in the meantime, it's a better alternative than the Longbowman or the Med. Infantry.

But I'll stick to the Siphai.

Oh, and an honorable mention to the Jaguar Warrior. Excellent against barbarians.

Unconquered · February 16, 2003, 16:55

I like the greek hoplite. An early high defense means you can immediately go offensive with little fear of losing your cities in the couter-offensive. Put them behind walls and on a hill and they are near unstoppable early on.

BRC · February 16, 2003, 16:58

I like the Rider. 3 movement points at that stage in the game is overpowering. They can be used for offense and defense, and are extremely effective at pillaging and oscillating tactics. A GA just outside of despotism makes them even more attractive. However, with Culture Linking on, you may have to deal with Samurai's at the same time.

Inverse Icarus · February 16, 2003, 17:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Unconquered
I like the greek hoplite. An early high defense means you can immediately go offensive with little fear of losing your cities in the couter-offensive. Put them behind walls and on a hill and they are near unstoppable early on.

yea, one MP game, i was carthage, and i lost out on the GL by 1 turn to an AI, so i switched to the great wall. after i got it, i realized how insane my defense was.

my main border city, which were constantly under siege by rome / china, was on hills, with walls (now with double duty), across a river.

thats:

3 + 3 * ( 1 + .50 + .25 ) = 8.25, when the strongest unit attacking me were legionaries, attack of 3.

even riders with an attack of 4 wouldn't dent that. hell, CAVALRY would have problems with that! (ignore the fact that cavalry require the advance that makes the wall obsolete plz

)

truly, a wonderful thing.

Odin · February 16, 2003, 22:49

The Numidian Mercinaries are #1!!!

They are unbeatable on the defensive, respectable on the offensive, and can PILLAGE, PILLAGE, PILLAGE!!!

(Ditto Uber's Merc + Great Wall + river analysis

)

monkspider · February 17, 2003, 00:37

I agree, Legions are a much better unit than Gallic Swordsmen. In fact, I would even prefer a regular swordsmen to Gallic Swordsmen, since the latter is prohibitively expensive to the point of absurdity.

David Murray · February 17, 2003, 04:28

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
I agree, Legions are a much better unit than Gallic Swordsmen. In fact, I would even prefer a regular swordsmen to Gallic Swordsmen, since the latter is prohibitively expensive to the point of absurdity.

When you consider that the Gallic swordsman combines the advantages of both the swordsman and horseman, i.e. strong on the offence and incredibly fast-moving, I think the extra price to pay is worth it especially when the crucial nature of early warfare is taken into consideration.

However, the berserk gets my vote - an attack of 6 and the ability to attack from ships at a time when no one has costal fortresses or defensive units with a defence of more than 4 allows for some serious conquering!

For me - 1. berserk 2. gallic swordsman 3. legion

CerberusIV · February 17, 2003, 05:35

I like Gallic Swords but that is probably due to editing them to only cost 40 shields - at 50 shields they are too expensive and legions are better value.

Having tried pretty much all the civs over the last few months I keep going back to Samurai - fast, only berserks have a higher attack at that stage of the game and nothing has better defence until riflemen.

monkspider · February 17, 2003, 13:50

Quote:

Originally posted by David Murray

When you consider that the Gallic swordsman combines the advantages of both the swordsman and horseman, i.e. strong on the offence and incredibly fast-moving, I think the extra price to pay is worth it especially when the crucial nature of early warfare is taken into consideration.

However, the berserk gets my vote - an attack of 6 and the ability to attack from ships at a time when no one has costal fortresses or defensive units with a defence of more than 4 allows for some serious conquering!

For me - 1. berserk 2. gallic swordsman 3. legion

David, conversely one could argue that the Legion combines the advantages of both the swordsman and pikeman, i.e. strong on the offence and the defence, This is especially important when considering the nature of early warfare.
This is all well and good of course, but the crucial thing here is that the G. Swordsman costs nearly twice as much as the Legion.

And in fact, I would go as far as to say that I would prefer 5 regular swordsmen to 3 G. Swordsmen. That's just how absurd I feel that that their price is at present.

monkspider · February 17, 2003, 13:52

In terms of best overall UU, I would say that the most dominating is the Berserker, with honorable mention being handed to the Immortal and Mounted Warrior, but my favorite is the Numidian Mercenary or Impi.

SpencerH · February 17, 2003, 14:26

It depends on the style of game and whether its MP or SP. Hoplite for a strict builder, NM for builder/warmonger, anything with 2 movement in ancient times for warmongers (best is impis, then GW, then warchariot, then JW).

Fast movers are the best in MP.

Mannamagnus · February 18, 2003, 11:23

Sipahi, apart from everything already said: they give a golden age when it is most useful

King_Henry · February 18, 2003, 12:24

Sipahis or legions. Legions are an all around great unit at the time when I do the most warmongering. Sipahis are great up until tanks come along. Since they're pretty strong and they retreat, Sipahis are good even against infantry. Also, since they're faster than tanks, I might keep a few around until modern armor.

eloquence · February 18, 2003, 15:25

It definitely seems like this discussion is slanted towards single player but I think that in both that the Mounted Warrior takes the win.

It's the cheapest 3 attack with 2 move and by the time you mass enough of them you can usually take down at least one opponent in single or multiplayer.

Master Zen · February 18, 2003, 19:54

I am playing a game with Carthage and found the Num. Mercenary to be vital! If you build the great wall it'll practically make you invincible until Knights and Med. Infantry come along.

Jahi · February 18, 2003, 20:59

i like the extra move of the Gallic Swordsman

monkspider · February 19, 2003, 02:05

I am a bit perplexed by all of the people in favor of the Sipahi, even the illustrious Warpstorm. To me it seems to suffer from Gallic Swordsman syndrome, too expensive for too little. While it's cost isn't as crippling as the G. Swordsman, it's 8 attack is of little use in a period of 10 defense infantry, who are highly entrenched in cities or metropoli.

monkspider · February 19, 2003, 02:09

Although, I admit that Warp's strategy of a late middle age army of them would be highly effective. It seems to be a small window of usefulness, and difficult to pull off.

Jahi · February 19, 2003, 03:15

monkspider, I love your quote! thats to funny!