Naval PBEM - Huge, Pre-Made, Rich, Islands, No Corruption, No Tech Trading, 6 Players

Eli · February 20, 2003, 14:00

What I have in mind is a game with an extremely powerful naval aspect.

Players will start on small landmasses, enough to fit maybe 3-5 21 tiles cities.

The map will have lots of smaller islands that can fit 1-2 cities.

Resource wise, the map will be average.
Tiles wise, it will be rich. With less plains, jungles and tundras than average.

No corruption - To make powerful and far cities that will function as bases an important aspect of the game.
No tech trading - I'm not sure about that, but it might add some more flavor to the game.
Bombardment kills - To make ships and carrier-based aircraft more effective.
30% faster vessels - To make ships more effective.
20% cheaper vessels - To make ships more easily available.
Pre-made - The random map generator cannot create the map we need, most of the time there will be 2-3 major land masses that will have to be divided and small islands that will have to be added.

6 total players, AIs will fill empty spots if there are any. No tech trading will get rid of the usual bullying of human players against the AI.

More suggestions are welcome.

Adagio · February 20, 2003, 15:14

Sounds interesting, though I'm not sure if I should join, since it could cause trouble later (moving in April, and might not have internet connection from the beginning)... but if there's not enough people, I might join, so I'll keep an eye on this thread

CerberusIV · February 20, 2003, 16:24

Sounds interesting. My computer struggles with large maps but I guess that won't really be a problem in a PBEM game.

There is a lot of potential to improve the naval/air elements of the game.

No tech trading can be done, it is just slower. Perhaps restricting rather than prohibiting would be best. I would also suggest reduced rather than no corruption to make courthouses/police stations relevant and to make changes in government worthwhile.

Definitely no Vikings! Allowing Vikings would give a massive advantage to one player.

Eli · February 20, 2003, 16:40

I think random civs will be the best solution to the Viking problem.

alva · February 20, 2003, 21:37

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG
Sounds interesting, though I'm not sure if I should join, since it could cause trouble later (moving in April, and might not have internet connection from the beginning)... but if there's not enough people, I might join, so I'll keep an eye on this thread

Although I won't be joining this game, if you need someone to cover for you during that time (or any other), just PM me

Have fun...

GhengisFarb™ · February 20, 2003, 22:28

I'm interested, perhaps there could be an agreement that no one is allowed to choose the Vikings. If you want you could use my Colonial Mod in progress, basically it adds several coastal installations to improve the power and value of coastal cities.

Adagio · February 21, 2003, 05:44

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Although I won't be joining this game, if you need someone to cover for you during that time (or any other), just PM me

Have fun...

Sounds good, thx

I'll join then (And PM you when it's time)

Btw, random Civs are best

ormuzd · February 21, 2003, 06:29

if you have free places, I'd like to join too.

Harovan · February 21, 2003, 06:33

I would like to join this game too, although under 2 conditions:

- No Vikings
- No AI.

Eli · February 21, 2003, 08:11

Eli
ADG(alva)
Cerberus
Ghengis
Ormuzd
Sir Ralph

Exactly 6, so no AI.

GF : What exactly your colonial mod contains?

And how are we going to make the map?

Harovan · February 21, 2003, 08:33

One more concern: Is it really wise to play with random civs? I mean, this could favor one team heavily, as who draws the English, starts with 2 techs towards Map Making, who draws the Aztecs, none. Obviously, the key is to get to MM ASAP.

Eli · February 21, 2003, 08:42

One solution is to eliminate starting techs, or make everyone have the same one.

Harovan · February 21, 2003, 08:42

Some more thoughts: My concern about the starting techs could be dealt with by removing all starting techs at all, i.e. let all civs start with nothing.

Another concern is, expansionist would be completely useless in this game, commercial would be severely hampered (no corruption). This again needs to be fixed, if we choose random civs.

EDIT: eek, xpost

Adagio · February 21, 2003, 08:46

If I get english/Viking I wouldn't mind to switch (restart)... heck... I wouldn't even mind to have an expansionist Civ

CerberusIV · February 21, 2003, 09:22

Eli: someone who is not playing will have to set up a scenario with the map and rule changes.

I am comfortable with the editor for rule changes and have had a couple of tries at maps so I will have a go at this if another player can be found to take my place in the game. If so, I will moderate/stand in for absent players as well if necessary.

Ghengis: I remember some of your comments on your Colonial Mod from an earlier thread. It sounded good but does it require graphics or other files apart from the scenario .bix that not everyone will have?

Eli · February 21, 2003, 09:22

Quote:

Another concern is, expansionist would be completely useless in this game, commercial would be severely hampered (no corruption). This again needs to be fixed, if we choose random civs.

Which leaves us with only ind, mil, rel and sci.

We could let players pick the two traits they want and the civ they want, and then use the editor to change the traits of the requested civ.

Another problem is UUs. Early ones are completely useless.

Harovan · February 21, 2003, 09:27

Aztecs, Germany, Egypt, Persia, Babylon, China, Japan, Celts and Ottomans are neither commercial nor expansionist. What about limiting the civ choice to these? In this case, we might even allow starting techs again, since Pottery and Alphabet are excluded.

Eli · February 21, 2003, 09:29

I want dibs on Egypt if we use your plan.

CerberusIV · February 21, 2003, 09:38

It is easy enough to change a civs traits and starting techs. Any civ (and it's UU) can be used with changes to these. I would simply take Vikings and England out altogether and edit the others.

GhengisFarb™ · February 21, 2003, 09:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

Quote:

Another concern is, expansionist would be completely useless in this game, commercial would be severely hampered (no corruption). This again needs to be fixed, if we choose random civs.

Which leaves us with only ind, mil, rel and sci.

We could let players pick the two traits they want and the civ they want, and then use the editor to change the traits of the requested civ.

Another problem is UUs. Early ones are completely useless.

How about:

Make all UU's available to all players and take away their ability to generate a Golden Age.

Each player chooses their civ and then picks the two traits they have.

Completely sterile and fair, its up to you to choose the combination you will conquer with.

CerberusIV · February 21, 2003, 10:02

Ghengis: that sounds good. It should be fairly easy to implement too.

Happy Birthday Eli.

ormuzd · February 21, 2003, 10:06

Will we choose our civs or they will be randomly chosen from these? If evryone determines - I prefer Japan.

GhengisFarb™ · February 21, 2003, 10:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
GF : What exactly your colonial mod contains?

Harbor is now renamed to Wharf and only costs half as much.

A Harbor adds +1 commerce and +1 food to water squares same cost as Harbors normally and allows water trade.

A Shipyard costs 100 shields and 2 gold maintenance, allows you to build veteran sea units, and adds +1 shield and +1 commerce to water squares. (available with Magnetism)

A Naval Shipyard is a small wonder that cost 300 shields and 3 gold maintenance and has the same effect as a Shipyard plus adds +1 trade in every trade producing tile. Requires a Timber resource to be within the city's radius and is availible with Magnetism.

A Seaport costs 200 shields, requires 3 gold maintenance and adds +1 shield, +1 food, and +1 commerce to water tiles. (available with Magnetism)

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
And how are we going to make the map?

We could start with a randomly generated file of islands and then pass it round robin and let everyone add some more islands and then play with the resources and starting positions determined randomly.

Adagio · February 21, 2003, 10:55

Sounds like an interesting mod GhengisFarb

Though I think we maybe should have a person who's not in the game, to make the map...

CerberusIV · February 21, 2003, 10:59

Going back on my earlier post I would prefer to play rather than set up the game. So..

I guess it is fair if we all see the map before the game starts - no different to playing on a world or europe map really.

I can do a map this evening and post it into the thread for everyone to have a look at.

I thought 6 main islands plus smaller ones as originally suggested by Eli. Everyone gets one horse and one iron on their original island but most (all?) of the later strategic resources go on the smaller islands. All main islands to have a river/freshwater.

At least six of each luxury resource but only one type on each main island (and some on small islands) so players will have to trade or conquer to get more than one.

Each of the six main islands has safe galley access to one other main island but more than that will need the Great Lighthouse or suicide runs. Other alternatives are galley access between all or nothing much happens before Astronomy!

One small island near the centre of the map to have coal and iron so whoever gets it has a shot at the Ironworks.

All islands to be at least three tiles in size (so cities can be taken without marines unless the defender is prepared to put units on all tiles).

Comments?

Before I do the work is everyone happy to go this way?

Harovan · February 21, 2003, 11:03

To be honest, I am not happy at all with all of us knowing the map. This takes a big part of fun out of the game. Perhaps we can get somebody to create a map for us.

ormuzd · February 21, 2003, 11:39

I agree with sir Ralph. It is very exciting to explore then to go knowing the world. But if we can't find someone to make the map?

GhengisFarb™ · February 21, 2003, 16:23

Yes, I would prefer to not know the map, I only suggested the round robin if a player made the map so that everyone would feel they had a fair start.

Adagio · February 21, 2003, 17:37

I agree, we should have another one to make the map, it makes it more fun

Try to post a thread about this, to see if anyone is interested in it...

CerberusIV · February 21, 2003, 18:31

Yes, it would be better if we can find someone to make the map. I am offering to do it if that is the only way to get started but it is not ideal.