The art of leaving cities undefended

HappySunShine · February 20, 2003, 18:40

You guys keep saying this isn't a viable strategy, it's only not a viable strategy when you are forced to defend your cities due to martial law. Here is how it works...

All games have a feel to them. For example, in age of empires there is a feel to the economy of the game. No one can teach you to balance your economy properly, it's a feel that is learned over many games. It's the knowledge to know when to take 1 villager off of wood and put him on food or to leave that villager there. In civ it is no different. It is the instinct to know when to leave a city undefended or when to defend it. This is where the true skill of it comes in. You have the option to defend your cities at the loss of expansion speed. However you also risk losing your cities to horsemen. On 1x1x King you never have to worry about defending a city, ever. On deity you are forced to defend those cities because the AI doesn't give you a choice. On 2x2x King you have the option of leaving cities undefended at the risk of losing those cities to horsemen. Strategies are created through choices, when you remove choices you remove strategy. That is why civ3 has flopped completely because there is no choice in civ3, the restrictions put on the player by the designers in order to make the AI more challenging have completely destroyed the game. Deity is the closest you will ever come to civ3. I have already gone through and played deity and my challenge was that if I got HG then I would win every time. In all my games I have won every single game I got HG first and the only 1 I lost was to markus because he got HG first.

Back to the point though. Having the instinct to know where to defend and to know where to find someone who isn't defending is part of what makes me so great. I can go games completely without any units in my cities and without losing a single city because I have the instinct and the knowledge to do that. I know the most likely places people will explore, I know the least likely places people will explore, I know where I am weak and I know where I am strong and so that allows me to maximize the utilization of that knowledge. On deity...everyone must defend, I have no choice in the matter. On raging hordes...just like strat said, I could get a barbarian and you could get a city and I guarantee you with an advantage like that the game is ended immediately. You don't see this because you don't play at the level we do. I've already gone through and proven that I can't lose on deity as long as I have HG, and I've also proven that without HG the game is pretty much over if I'm playing against a good player. What have you done? You've done nothing, and every time you reply with one of your lame lines or excuses. One trick pony? No, you're the one trick pony. I have beaten everyone on every setting and I have proven the inadequacy of deity as a multiplayer setting. No hut maps with equal starting positions are the only real way to take all randomization out of the game, but it also makes the game incredibly long. Lets face it, there is noone on this site that has ever truly refuted any of my challenges or any of my claims. It always comes back to something about cheating or calling me a braggart. I enjoy that though because I know I have won.

Alexander's Horse · February 20, 2003, 19:17

I really like it when you share your knowledge of the game

The undefended city strat is an interesting one. I think its being used more. It is viable on deity level under certain conditions.

Hydey · February 20, 2003, 19:26

When the greatest civ player of all time passes on his knowledge we all must stop and learn

Ming · February 20, 2003, 20:20

Quote:

Originally posted by HappySunShine
You guys keep saying this isn't a viable strategy, it's only not a viable strategy when you are forced to defend your cities due to martial law. Here is how it works...

Sure... it's a viable strategy when you play without barbs.

Quote:

On deity you are forced to defend those cities because the AI doesn't give you a choice.

You keep saying this... and it's still incorrect every time you do. Many people play the empty city strategy at Deity. Most use elvis's, and some even increase luxeries... You aren't forced to defend the city. You have a "choice" not to. You may say it's a stupid choice, but it is a choice. And as you say, choices mean strategy

Quote:

On deity...everyone must defend, I have no choice in the matter.

Again with this incorrect statement

Quote:

On raging hordes...just like strat said, I could get a barbarian and you could get a city and I guarantee you with an advantage like that the game is ended immediately. You don't see this because you don't play at the level we do.

The same occurs if somebody gets a tons of settlers or cities, and you get are worthless sciences. To carry your logic out, you shouldn't even be playing with huts, yet you still do.

Quote:

I have proven the inadequacy of deity as a multiplayer setting.

You have proven nothing except to stick to your incorrect statement that Deity doesn't offer choices.

Quote:

No hut maps with equal starting positions are the only real way to take all randomization out of the game, but it also makes the game incredibly long.

That is correct... but that's not what you are advocating playing. You still want your huts... but you want to remove the risk of any real danger, but still live with the unfairness that huts keep in the game. Again, barbs disrupt your strategy...

Quote:

Lets face it, there is noone on this site that has ever truly refuted any of my challenges or any of my claims.

Hmmm... many people claim to have beaten you... even ras...

Some even say they beat you half the time. So what the heck are you talking about.

Quote:

it always comes back to something about cheating or calling me a braggart.

But you are a braggart, and you did cheat... so how does that make you a winner?

You keep making these claims of Proof... and yet you have never really proved anything. You have stated your opinions... but nothing more. In reality, the only thing that has ever been proven is that you indeed did cheat

See... now you can go off and feel like you won

deity · February 20, 2003, 20:51

Yes, leaving cities undefended is a VERY viable strat

Eh, Horse?

Hydey · February 20, 2003, 22:39

*Hydey phones shops to organise beer and popcorn delivery while waiting for a responce from the great one. *

Ming · February 21, 2003, 00:19

No need to wait for the "great one"... His response is automatic on his part... Let me see...

I'm the greatest
You all suck
There is no strategy in Deity
You don't know what you are talking about
I'm the greatest
2x2x is the only way to play
Only newbies play deity
I'm the greatest
Is the best you do is call me a cheater
I've never lost
You lie
My skills are the best

And he will do it in his normal ranting tone.
Again, no need to wait for his response. It's so predictable

It's actually too bad that he will respond that way. If he dropped the rantings, and didn't put down everybody, or put down the other settings... he really has some good stuff to say. His knowleged and expertise of the game is great. It's just too bad it gets lost in all of his ego oriented and insulting tirades.

deity · February 21, 2003, 00:27

Oh, I thought Hydey was referring to true greatness... Horsie

Ming · February 21, 2003, 00:39

Quote:

Originally posted by deity
Oh, I thought Hydey was referring to true greatness... Horsie

Hydey · February 21, 2003, 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by deity
Oh, I thought Hydey was referring to true greatness... Horsie

Have you been drinking the parrot wine again ?

jes · February 21, 2003, 04:22

the discussion is a bit boring, cause its always the same point, but Eyes: stop complaining about 1x1x diety. to say it clearly: its no skill to grow up in 2x2x king wehre you can sleeze cities and so on. its realy skill to play 1x1x diety and do a really good job. and there is no need of hg, that shows, you dont understand this kind of game. hg, koloss and lh are fine balanced, even the pyramids are very usefull sometimes.

HappySunShine · February 21, 2003, 05:46

Ok, for the last and final time I will make the challenge: NO ONE CAN BEAT ME ON DEITY WHEN I HAVE HG. Amazing how all the rooks who couldn't break top 10 on the real ladders on 2x2x went over to some stupid kraut site for 1x1x deity and now think they're bad ass. Woke did the same thing, he also was foolish and thought he could beat me without happy wonders.

Alexander's Horse · February 21, 2003, 06:06

Eyes makes interesting points when he's discussing the game. More of those please.

DrSpike · February 21, 2003, 06:27

Quote:

Originally posted by deity
Yes, leaving cities undefended is a VERY viable strat

Eh, Horse?

Why, what happened?

Hydey · February 21, 2003, 06:28

Please don't encourage Deity, you know how he gets

deity · February 21, 2003, 06:30

Yeah, I basically agree.

Wish he'd grow up though. Playing that juvenile game is not even entertaining.... never was for me.

Sean, shed the boy.

DrSpike · February 21, 2003, 06:30

I'm surprised there were no fireworks in the Aussie thread.

Alexander's Horse · February 21, 2003, 10:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydey
Please don't encourage Deity, you know how he gets

War4ever · February 21, 2003, 10:39

Sean you can't win a game past 1 ad....and i am surprised your gaimes get that far, considering you find the enemy capital by about 3650 BC

jes · February 21, 2003, 14:34

Quote:

Originally posted by HappySunShine
Ok, for the last and final time I will make the challenge: NO ONE CAN BEAT ME ON DEITY WHEN I HAVE HG. Amazing how all the rooks who couldn't break top 10 on the real ladders on 2x2x went over to some stupid kraut site for 1x1x deity and now think they're bad ass. Woke did the same thing, he also was foolish and thought he could beat me without happy wonders.

well, im happy to meet you in a game, eyes.
tell me where i can contact you. i never see you in icq.
i think, realistic is it to play on weekend, or can you play during the week as well at times, where im still awake?
i live here with GMT +1.
this weekend im working. if you wonna play, you can do it with max as well

.
next weekend i can play.

DrSpike · February 21, 2003, 16:00

If you give Eyes HG what are you going to take as 'your wonder'?

War4ever · February 21, 2003, 16:55

i am going to change the rules.txt when i host and not let him know

that will be my wonder

HappySunShine · February 21, 2003, 16:56

As always you're talking **** war but you never back it up and you have me on invisible on ICQ. So much for all your talk.

Ming · February 21, 2003, 17:16

Wait a minute eyes... I thought you said you don't use ICQ anymore... having trouble keeping your lies straight

Well... aren't you going to except the German Challange... or are you afraid you will lose...

DrSpike · February 21, 2003, 17:18

Hehe....*munches popcorn*

jes · February 21, 2003, 17:38

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
If you give Eyes HG what are you going to take as 'your wonder'?

well, first i dint want to chose any special wonder, but i think lh maybe a good choice

Ming · February 21, 2003, 17:42

You're assuming he's going to actually play. Yeah, I know, he's the one that threw down the gauntlet, and you are the one that is accepting, but don't bet on him playing... That is more his style... just to ignore you and claim nobody is willing to play him...

War4ever · February 21, 2003, 18:33

SEAN I AM AT WORK....HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN ON ICQ ALL WEEK..I DON'T CIV DURING THE WEEK ANYMORE...TOO BUSY...

TRY ME THIS WEEKEND IF POSSIBLE?

StrategicKingMi · February 22, 2003, 00:01

In a recent game with Martin, he had 3 times the forces at one point then I did, using the warior trick to upgrade wariors to muskets. The problem Martin had was my mobility, as he put it so elequently--
"I hate you, you have half as many units, but always where you need them."
I simply created a mobile defense using 2 intercont. railroads to move newly created canons to ports. Ship chains to have them off another conts coast to the west. Every time martin built a new city on that coast, my explorers, on board ships with my mageleons moving 7 spaces patroled the entirity of that coastline. Now everytime he built a new city, I land and take it out with units created half a world away the same damn turn. I also had ironclads patroling that could be called in for shore bombardment if need be. Also, I was prepared to land with settlers and building citys and railroads to destroy an incoming force detected by my explorers that would have built too many citys for me to take out in 1 turn.
He actually built a city on a forest, with its only land conection was a forest, so my cannons were useless. This force could land on my unprotected cont and end the game! I detected the force before it built the city and had no units in place to stop it.
BUT, I was working on engineering at that time. So I went back into my trade advisor, built 6 caravans, organized a delivery system hit enough routes that turn to fill the beakers up full. Set my citys to producing settlers knowing that most would be upgraded to engineers the same turn as I got the tech!
This caught him by total surprise!
I landed the engineers on that forest. built a railroad, then a city and moved right to that forest city and destroyed it with 3 canons killing a massive 16 unit invading force!!!! Game over!
(of course, if he played it different, had vet muskets instead of new warior recruits, and had built an 8 size city, now I would have to have about 12 -15 canons in place to take it out which might not have happened!)
The point is, I was in democracy and most of my citys were unprotected and was totally safe as I maticulessly patrolled ALL poss. avenues of aproach and had intriquate defense strategies to prevent just 1 ship getting near my shore. (I failed once, a galleon got to my main city mass, but only had a diplomat on it as it was an upgraded ship that was out salling since 3250 bc)

War4ever · February 22, 2003, 03:00

each turn takes an hour