Good Map-maker Needed

Eli · February 22, 2003, 15:47

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=77852

We need someone to make the map for the PBEM game in the above thread. There is no need to make the entire map, just some modifications to a random Archipelago/80% Water map.

Sheik · February 22, 2003, 19:47

Is this the complete list:

No corruption - To make powerful and far cities that will function as bases an important aspect of the game.
No tech trading - I'm not sure about that, but it might add some more flavor to the game.
Bombardment kills - To make ships and carrier-based aircraft more effective.
30% faster vessels - To make ships more effective.
20% cheaper vessels - To make ships more easily available.
Pre-made - The random map generator cannot create the map we need, most of the time there will be 2-3 major land masses that will have to be divided and small islands that will have to be added.

If so what do you want the map to look like? Do you want somewhat equal resources? Do you want some civs starting close together and others starting far apart?

Eli · February 23, 2003, 00:41

I'll post a detailed description later today, gotta run now.

GhengisFarb™ · February 23, 2003, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheik
Is this the complete list:

No corruption - To make powerful and far cities that will function as bases an important aspect of the game.
No tech trading - I'm not sure about that, but it might add some more flavor to the game.
Bombardment kills - To make ships and carrier-based aircraft more effective.
30% faster vessels - To make ships more effective.
20% cheaper vessels - To make ships more easily available.
Pre-made - The random map generator cannot create the map we need, most of the time there will be 2-3 major land masses that will have to be divided and small islands that will have to be added.

If so what do you want the map to look like? Do you want somewhat equal resources? Do you want some civs starting close together and others starting far apart?

Also: Make all UU's available to all players and take away their ability to generate a Golden Age.

There should be six starting islands that each can can support approxiamately 3-4 size 21 cities.

Am not sure how they want resources distrubuted or if they want them randomly distribruted.

Sheik · February 23, 2003, 11:56

Do you want y-wraping and x-wraping on?

Harovan · February 23, 2003, 12:17

x-wrapping yes
y-wrapping no
polar ice caps yes

(I think the others will agree)

Sheik · February 23, 2003, 12:49

Barbarians?

Adagio · February 23, 2003, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
x-wrapping yes
y-wrapping no
polar ice caps yes

(I think the others will agree)

Agree

Adagio · February 23, 2003, 12:51

I'd say 'yes' to babarians, though don't know on which level they should be...

Harovan · February 23, 2003, 14:10

I think not very high. My vote is roaming, at most restless.

Sheik · February 23, 2003, 16:17

Goody huts on starting islands? Goody huts on other islands, but noit starting one? Or no goody huts at all?

CerberusIV · February 23, 2003, 18:38

No goody huts on starting island but goody huts on other islands.

Reason - so no-one gets a key tech early (and a boost towards map-making) or a settler/town. That way the early game should be level up to the point we all reach MM and after that someone getting lucky from a goody hut won't make a really big difference.

Sheik · February 23, 2003, 20:16

Alright, I have a map ready.

1. Huge
2. Islands (Bigger than you wanted but not too big)
3. + 30% Ship Movement (Rounded to nearest whole number .5 rounds up)
4. - 20% Ship Cost (Rounded same as #3)
5. No Corruption on all dificulties
6. X-Wraping On, Y-Wraping Off
7. Barbarian camps exist and barbarians are at Roaming
8. Goody huts on other lands besides home island
9. Bombardment Kills (All units that had a bombard value now have lethal land and lethal sea)
10. Every civ can now build any UU and the unit that UU originally replaced.
11. No unit starts a golden age
12. Start locations are not player or civ specific.

Tell me if you want it posted here and if there is anything else you want.

Harovan · February 24, 2003, 04:02

Thank you very much, Sheik! We'll discuss the play order and will let you know in this thread, how we want to get the file.

Harovan · February 24, 2003, 07:19

One more thing, can we please make sure, that the conditions are at least a bit fair? As far as I know, the map generator isn't very generous with lakes and rivers on archipelago, and to be stuck on a plains island without the hope to irrigate it would be disastrous for this player. Same goes, of course, for hills and jungle.

Eli · February 24, 2003, 07:39

It's not all.

Get rid of all the big plains/tundra/desert/jungle concentrations. There should be some of those tiles(for resources, among other reasons), but there shouldnt be entire islands filled with them.

And give horses and iron to every starting islands, with other resources distributed on the small ones.

Also make sure there are enough resources. We dont want 3 Coal resources on a six players map.

Agreed?

Eli · February 24, 2003, 07:44

Luxuries are also important. Every civ should have at least two-three of them within reach either on the main island or nearby ones. They should also come in small patches, to allow trading.

Harovan · February 24, 2003, 08:13

We're six players. Each of us could have a world supply (6) of one exclusive luxury, and the two remaining luxuries (could be wines and furs) could be with a civ supply (1) near the starts of each civs.

So, for instance, if I had incense as "my" exclusive luxury, I would expect to find a total of six incenses, one fur and one wine at my starting landmass or the closest islands.

Adagio · February 24, 2003, 08:33

Maybe 5 will be better, so 1 other player still will be able to get your exclusive luxury (Where the last one is to find on one of the islands nearby...

GhengisFarb™ · February 24, 2003, 09:12

Definitely would like for there to be rivers, especially on starting islands, would prefer for a nonplayer to start the game and then send it to the first player.

Harovan · February 24, 2003, 10:18

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG
Maybe 5 will be better, so 1 other player still will be able to get your exclusive luxury (Where the last one is to find on one of the islands nearby...

Agreed, but this still makes 6 luxuries of every type, just that now each of us has not 3 but 4 luxuries around.

5 supplies of his "almost exclusive"
1 supply of another player's "almost exclusive"
1 wines
1 furs

Did I got this right? This makes the game somewhat easier.

Eli · February 24, 2003, 10:50

Yeah, looks ok.

I agree to what GF said about rivers. Starting without irrigation on the main island is not going to be pretty.

Sheik · February 24, 2003, 17:22

There are:
5 of an exculsive luxury to every home island
1 of another civs exclusive luxury on 1/6 home islands
2 of a luxury
1 of a luxury

As for strategic resources. Every civ will have iron and horses. Every island is lacking a strategic resource or two but throughout the world there are generous quantities of all resources.

Every home island has great land with rivers. Every home island has a decent start location.

Harovan · February 24, 2003, 19:31

Thank you very much, Sheik!

Players are, in that order:

1 - Eli (Egypt) Industrious and Religious
2 - ormuzd (Japan) Militaristic and Religious
3 - Sir Ralph (Celts) Scientific and Industrious
4 - ADG (Aztecs) Industrious and Religious
5 - CerberusIV (Ottomans) Scientific and Industrious
6 - GhengisFarb (Germans) Industrious and Religious

Could you change the civ traits and starting techs accordingly?

Additionally, I want my civ, the Celts, customized, as I would like to try an Ultima VII revival game

.

Leader Name: British
Formal: Britannia
Noun: Britannians
Adjective: Britannian
Title: Lord

If that is fine with the others, we could get things started, the earlier, the better.

Sheik · February 24, 2003, 20:30

Alright, do the other players want anything changed?

Did you say you wanted no starting techs?

GhengisFarb™ · February 24, 2003, 20:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheik
Alright, do the other players want anything changed?

Did you say you wanted no starting techs?

I think it was decided to go with starting techs afterall.

Harovan · February 25, 2003, 04:04

We excluded the commercial and expansionistic trait, because they are completely useless (no corruption, small islands), but provide prerequisite techs to Map Making. Since we did that, we can play with starting techs, according to the chosen traits.

Militaristic: Warrior Code
Religious: Ceremonial Burial
Scientific: Bronze Working
Industrious: Masonry

Eli · February 25, 2003, 07:58

Wonders :

All wonders that have effect for "every city on the continent" should be changed to have the same effect for "every city".

Tech rate should also be adjusted, probably. We're still discussing it.

GhengisFarb™ · February 25, 2003, 14:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
We excluded the commercial and expansionistic trait, because they are completely useless (no corruption, small islands), but provide prerequisite techs to Map Making. Since we did that, we can play with starting techs, according to the chosen traits.

Militaristic: Warrior Code
Religious: Ceremonial Burial
Scientific: Bronze Working
Industrious: Masonry

Since no one starts out with Alphabet and Pottery due to the fact that we elimated those traits perhaps we could give those two techs to everyone as additional starting techs to help speed up advancement to Mapmaking.

Harovan · February 25, 2003, 16:20

This would be possible, as it would be possible to play without starting techs at all. But we shouldn't confuse our map maker with discussions here. Let's discuss this in the other thread.

To Sheik:

Wonders that need changes to make it better to build them on small islands:
The Pyramids (change to "Gain in every city" upper right)
Sun Tzu (change to "Gain in every city" upper right)
JS Bach's Cathedral (unselect "continental mood effect" lower left)

Tech rate for huge maps:
Set to 280, in the mid between large and standard (I think we agreed on this).