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Old February 24, 2003, 11:30   #1
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This Guy should spend big time in prison
This is good news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/int...nd/2782987.stm

I hope they make him eat pork
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Old February 24, 2003, 11:39   #2
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One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"
Good riddance to bad rubbish
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Old February 24, 2003, 12:03   #3
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Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"
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Old February 24, 2003, 12:13   #4
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about here:

Quote:
One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"

He also said it is permissible to use chemical weapons to kill unbelievers.

In a tape called Rules of Jihad, thought to have been made before September 11 Al-Faisal told his audience: "You have to learn how to shoot. You have to learn how to fly planes, drive tanks and you have to learn how to load your guns and to use missiles."
lets hope he goes down for a very long time
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:27   #5
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Good, and they should feed that Abu Hamza to a ticking crocodile
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"
Easy.

"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:37   #7
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"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder.
So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:38   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger


Easy.

"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:38   #9
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Yes. Good luck trying to get anybody to prosecute.
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:39   #10
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I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").
It certainly is here.

We also go too far, IMO and ban all speech that promotes hatred based on race, sex, etc.
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:39   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder.
So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?
I'd rather see Saddam taken care of by his own people. And I'd rather see him put on trial for crimes against humanity. That would end his "martyrdom" real quick. He and Noriega can be cellmates.
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Old February 24, 2003, 13:49   #12
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Boris, I agree that in the US, this guy would be allowed to say what he is saying because it is a non-specific crime he is advocating.
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Old February 24, 2003, 14:06   #13
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Then he should move to America. The Land of the Free Great Satan.
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Old February 24, 2003, 14:59   #14
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"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?
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Old February 24, 2003, 15:04   #15
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Not to say that all speech advocating criminal acts should be legally protected, but this shouldn't automatically make speech non-protected.
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Old February 24, 2003, 18:25   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ramo


Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?
Yes.
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Old February 24, 2003, 18:39   #17
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Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.
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Old February 24, 2003, 18:56   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?
Actually, since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder, killing Saddam would be murder.

Now, if we killed him because resistance has made capture and imprisonment impossible, I can see that being justified.
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:00   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger


Yes.
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:03   #20
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Which Yes?

Saddam or speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:06   #21
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Quote:
Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.

Quote:
"So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"
I'm not sure who has jurisdiction here (UK or India), but this quote seems to solicit murder (unless it is taken out of context)...
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:08   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:09   #23
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I don't see the problem with this.

AFAIK even "soliciting mischief" is a crime around here...
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:14   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
I don't see the problem with this.
Everyone should have the right to speak whatever they want. Even if it is violence and hate.
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:15   #25
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Hate yes, violence no.

That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:17   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Hate yes, violence no.

That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.
When its directed at one certain person, I'll agree with you. If its directed at a group of people (blacks, russians, etc) then I disagree with you.
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Old February 24, 2003, 19:20   #27
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Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?
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Old February 24, 2003, 21:13   #28
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since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder
No it isn't. Murder is unlawful killing. Capital punishment being lawful, by nature, cannot be murder.
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Old February 24, 2003, 22:18   #29
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I read a book about this mercenary in near Bosnia who dipped his bullets in pigs grease, so every mujahedin fighter he shot wouldn't get to paradise.
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Old February 24, 2003, 22:23   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?
But thats not speech (well it is.....you know what I mean). If I say "Death to the Blacks!" I should not be arrested. If I try to kill a black, then yeah I should be arrested.
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