Thread Tools
Old May 3, 2001, 13:26   #1
RobN
Settler
 
RobN's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Staffs, England
Posts: 20
Pirates obsessed with transports
I have noticed in two games now that the Pirates (when controlled by the AI) seem obsessed with transport units. They keep on building them. They just can`t get enough of them. Not my problem? Well it is because it`s slowing the game down considerably. Can anyone tell me what is going on?
RobN is offline  
Old May 4, 2001, 13:07   #2
Earwicker
Civilization II Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy Game
Prince
 
Earwicker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 565
quote:

Originally posted by RobN on 05-03-2001 01:26 PM
I have noticed in two games now that the Pirates (when controlled by the AI) seem obsessed with transport units. They keep on building them. They just can`t get enough of them. Not my problem? Well it is because it`s slowing the game down considerably. Can anyone tell me what is going on?


Cha Dawn does the same thing. Idiot. He gets to the point of having 0 or 1 mineral each in several bases because of the transport overload, with nothing left to build or support anything else. Not much fun.

Earwicker is offline  
Old May 4, 2001, 13:48   #3
Fitz
King
 
Fitz's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:13
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: & Anarchist
Posts: 1,689
You could always scramble faction agendas, but not the personalities. That would have a lot of other affects though.

The way the AI plays depends on a lot of things. I do know they play a lot more intelligently if you are weak compared to them, especially if you are the weakest.
Fitz is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 02:49   #4
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:13
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Fitz, I agree with your statement. The AI seems to play well from the lead. The best AI factions tend to stay out of war an concentrate on building and researching. AKI and Rose, in my observation, tend to play this way and for that reason are formidable competitors.

In a recent game, though, scrambled the personalites. Santiago came out pacifist. Instead of girding for war, she built for science. For most of the game, she was the most developed and leading technology faction in the game.

So, it might be possible to improve the game by simply making the AI be "less" aggressive. Any thoughts?

Ned
Ned is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 07:08   #5
Clear Skies
Prince
 
Clear Skies's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Posts: 660
I get that too - in sea bases, my Governors will often start building transports for no good reason! And they don't stop when the base has one - they keep building! Once I got seventeen transports in one base! Insanity!
I've never seen the AI do that, though. Just my $&^*^%$!$& governors!
Clear Skies is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 08:37   #6
Chowlett
Alpha Centauri PBEM
King
 
Chowlett's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: of Candle'Bre
Posts: 1,804
quote:

Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic on 05-06-2001 07:08 AM
I get that too - in sea bases, my Governors will often start building transports for no good reason! And they don't stop when the base has one - they keep building! Once I got seventeen transports in one base! Insanity!
I've never seen the AI do that, though. Just my $&^*^%$!$& governors!


Most SMAC players realise, as you have, after a while that the governers ae actually pants. Unmitigated and unadulterated pants. Most players don't let them near anything, and I'm only willing to give them control over my sea-formers, and then only occassionally.
Chowlett is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 15:19   #7
Clear Skies
Prince
 
Clear Skies's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Posts: 660
I know they're 'complete, unadulterated pants'! Do you think I'd let them near my bases if I was playing on anything other than the UBM? I have so many bases I simply don't know what to do with them all! I can't micromanage every single one, it'd take waaaay too long! I have to hand at least SOMETHING over to governors.
I just hate the way they always build IoDs too.
And IMHO I think it's pointless replying with a quote if you just quote the entire post. It amounts to a double post, I think.
Clear Skies is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 16:26   #8
Misotu
Emperor
 
Misotu's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Leamington Spa, England
Posts: 3,657
quote:

Originally posted by Ned on 05-06-2001 02:49 AM
So, it might be possible to improve the game by simply making the AI be "less" aggressive. Any thoughts?


It certainly is possible to do this, and it works too, up to a point. I'm sure loads of people have experimented with this, but to my knowledge, Googlie certainly has.

I have no clue when it comes to the alpha.txt files, but you can create scenarios and set AI priorities in quite a detailed way. I created one (which I must go and finish up) where the AI was incredibly strong, expanded, built, out-researched me and was a *serious* headache throughout. It has taken me a long time to get this together, because I want a scenario that is *almost* - but not quite - impossible. Very difficult - I was surprised to find the difference that quite small tweaks in the AI starting position can make over a game.

Misotu is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 16:38   #9
mark13
ACDG The Free Drones
King
 
mark13's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 2,128
quote:

I created one (which I must go and finish up) where the AI was incredibly strong, expanded, built, out-researched me and was a *serious* headache throughout. It has taken me a long time to get this together, because I want a scenario that is *almost* - but not quite - impossible.


Well, go on then! Off with you - and I want to see the finished product
mark13 is offline  
Old May 6, 2001, 20:29   #10
Chowlett
Alpha Centauri PBEM
King
 
Chowlett's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: of Candle'Bre
Posts: 1,804
quote:

Do you think I'd let them near my bases if I was playing on anything other than the UBM?

...

And IMHO I think it's pointless replying with a quote if you just quote the entire post. It amounts to a double post, I think.


What's the UBM?

Did you notice that I didn't quote your entire post? Seriously though, I like people to be able to see exactly what I'm responding to, and while in this case it was admittedly fairly obvious, there are cases when someone will unexpectedly post just before I do, and then my answer is seperated from the post it applies to, which can get confusing. I guess it's a habit - with longer posts particularly I'll quote the whole thing and then chop it up to reply to each bit in turn, so I just naturally hit the "Reply with Quote" button perhaps more often than I should. :shrug:
Chowlett is offline  
Old May 7, 2001, 10:05   #11
Closey
Chieftain
 
Closey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 82
quote:

I just hate the way they always build IoDs too.


What if you tell them not to build any military units then? Couldn't that work? To have them just working on facilities?
Closey is offline  
Old May 7, 2001, 11:21   #12
xeno7667
Prince
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 410
@Misotu "I was surprised to find the difference that quite small tweaks in the AI starting position can make over a game."

That's very interesting (science of the chaos)... but I think a big parameter how the AI plays is simply chance. To test this, we have to play and simulate the same game with the same starting position 100times. Hard work...
xeno7667 is offline  
Old May 7, 2001, 23:50   #13
gwillybj
Prince
 
gwillybj's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Eurytion Mining Camp: 100°C dayside, 100°F nightside.
Posts: 875
quote:

Originally posted by Closey on 05-07-2001 10:05 AM
What if you tell them not to build any military units then? Couldn't that work? To have them just working on facilities?


From the SMAC manual, regarding the Governor's priority settings:

"Build. The base disregards most external concerns, concentrating on its own growth, terraforming, and the creation of new facilities."

While this will not prevent building military units, the Governor will not choose to do so unless there is no other option. In that case, it will most probably build the strongest defensive unit possible, or an offensive unit if it is a base near a faction with whom you have a Vendetta or Truce. For whatever reason, Worms and Isles (and Locusts), being Psi units, appear to be considered stronger than any other weapon or armor. It seems so to me from what I've seen in my games.
I must admit, though, to having fun watching an enemy's heavily-armed and/or -armored Cruiser sent to Davy Jones' Locker because of its low Psi rating (better yet, a fully-loaded Transport ), or a nasty Shard Artillery regiment go "poof" for the same reason.

------------------
ti oun
gwillybj is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 00:34   #14
Googlie
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 GaiansACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 MorganACDG3 CMNsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha Centaurians
Emperor
 
Googlie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:13
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Palm Springs, California
Posts: 9,541
quote:

Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic on 05-06-2001 07:08 AM
Once I got seventeen transports in one base! Insanity!
I've never seen the AI do that, though. Just my $&^*^%$!$& governors!


On another topic (IA building choppers) I opened up an old gamefile of a pre-transcendent save, and saw that Deirdre had built 137 transports (and had lost 49). She was in a seemingly neverending vendetta with me (Yang) and my slave, Lal, and constantly was sending over loaded invasion transports, but 137, sheesh.

She also built 18 Planetbusters, but threw most against my ODP shield (although she did nuke a Lal base and a Morgan one, Morgan also one of my slaves)

The nexus numbers were interesting:

Yang (me): 218 land and 242 sea crawlers, 3 transports, 64 Penetrators and 4 Interceptors, 6 empath SAM choppers,
Lal: 1 crawler, 6 transports, 47 empath SAM choppers, (and no, the choppers weren't gifts from me), 17 Interceptors
Dee: 137 transports (lost 49), 50 needlejets, 17 interceptors, 18 Planetbusters (lost 17)
Sparta: 36 transports (lost 12), 2 crawlers, no choppers, 34 conventional missiles, 11 interceptors

(The other factions weren't significant)

The IA could be so much more challenging if only they would produce crawlers. In fact, the only game I've seen where they produced them in numbers was in a playtest of the Roze scenario I designed for CGN, where I seeded each IA faction with 2 bases each with three forest tiles and a crawler working each. After 90 or so turns, four of the IA still had their original six, one had used them for prototypes, Sp's or whatever, and the final one had built another 34, to have 40 when I checked. That was neat to see (and not unexpectedly, was ahead in the power graph)

Ah well, we can dream

G.


Googlie is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 02:33   #15
Closey
Chieftain
 
Closey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 82
quote:

Originally posted by gwillybj on 05-07-2001 11:50 PM
From the SMAC manual, regarding the Governor's priority settings:

"Build. The base disregards most external concerns, concentrating on its own growth, terraforming, and the creation of new facilities."

While this will not prevent building military units, the Governor will not choose to do so unless there is no other option.



Ah, true. But you do know that you can specify what you want them to build too, right? Just click that little arrow next to the base name (I think that's where it is) And then un-select all the military units. I'm at work now so I probably won't be checking the details until I get home, but I know that it's possible though. I used to do it all the time when I used them. It's nice to have them building facilities without you having to worry about getting tons of troups and such.

Edt: Maybe the arrow's next to the Governor button, can't seem to recall right now. But it is there though.

[This message has been edited by Closey (edited May 08, 2001).]
Closey is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 02:45   #16
knowhow2
King
 
knowhow2's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: of the World
Posts: 2,651
Problem with Closey's advise is that you have to do this in EVERY base. Which would take awhile to do since you're probably not doing it immedietly the same time as you built the base. If you have like 100+ bases, the it would take a some time to make this happen. Clicking a governer is less timeconsuming but also less effective and precise.
knowhow2 is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 03:10   #17
Closey
Chieftain
 
Closey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 82
quote:

Originally posted by knowhow2 on 05-08-2001 02:45 AM
Problem with Closey's advise is that you have to do this in EVERY base. Which would take awhile to do since you're probably not doing it immedietly the same time as you built the base. If you have like 100+ bases, the it would take a some time to make this happen. Clicking a governer is less timeconsuming but also less effective and precise.


Yes, but when you've done it in one base you usually get the same options selected when you go to that menu in another base. So it's pretty much a two-click per base thing. And I don't find that as much of a drag as having to build everything myself when having too many bases.

Closey is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 03:32   #18
Blake
lifer
PolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerC4DG Gathering StormCivilization IV CreatorsApolyton UniversityApolytoners Hall of Fame
Beyond the Sword AI Programmer
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I am a Buddhist
Posts: 5,680
The specific sub-thread I am replying to is tweaked AI

I tried a game scenerio setting all AI's priorities to Lotsa Colony Pods, Formers, then I added "BUILD" and "emphasis growth" to the personalities, and in some cases reduced agression. I also set some AI's to team up against human player, and yang and miriam to commit atrocities.

Then I went and seeded the map with forests, putting a couple of forests (of size 4 to 8 tiles) near each AI, I gave myself a smaller forest. In any unihabited areas I planted a forest too. To top it off I gave each player except me and dee (my neighbour) a few boreholes, which would kick in once they had big enough bases & restrictions lifted.

Other than the smaller forest for me, and less favourable start position for me the AI's had no other advantages. Incidentely this SMAC, I play that because it runs faster than SMAX.

Anyway, I played morgan, it's 2220 and I am definetly playing catchup, Yang and Zak both have Advanced Spaceflight (I have spaceflight), the AI's seem to be in some trading pact, and i'm not invited, everyone is getting techs at about 1 every 7 turns, including miriam, but she a bit behind in tech. Dee has been a loyal ally, and I buy tech from her, but the other factions hardly talk to me. Yang has been building infrastructure like crazy, his bases are better outfitted than mine (then again he does have the jungle, lucky chairman). Lal has that northen isle all to himself, he is in the process of starving his bases by building aircraft and running FM. The only SP's I have are Virtual World and Ascetic Virtues. I'm predicting any turn now Yang is gonna launch some satellites. My sky-hydro lab is getting lonely anyway.

Oh yeah, and those forests. They spread like crazy, so fast that the AI hardly had time to put crappy terraforming down. Combined with tree farms the AI's are doing pretty good, and have some large bases in the big forests. Remarkable how much sensible settings and decent terraforming improves the play of the AI's. One change to make the AI MUCH more competive would be to reduce the FM penalty to -2 police, so they can have a military without killing themselves. (player could add penalty, FM to his faction). Another thing would be to give them free treefarms and clean reactors.
Blake is offline  
Old May 8, 2001, 15:33   #19
Clear Skies
Prince
 
Clear Skies's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Posts: 660
quote:

Originally posted by Chowlett on 05-06-2001 08:29 PM
What's the UBM?



The Ultimate Builder Map. Can't remember where I got it - I think it's one of DilithiumDad's creations - but it is fantastic. It's a bigger, better, fairer Huge Map of Planet and if you're quick you can colonise up to 2/3 of the land without a single Vendetta!
Seriously, though, it rules. And I executed seven Governors last night for insubordination.
Clear Skies is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:13.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team