Initial reactions and feedback request

[outsdr]

Ok, I just started playing Moo3 last night. I've never played any of the MOO series before. My friend and I

tried to play MOO2 multi=pl;ayer, but the time between turns was about 30 minutes (we managed 2 turns before

giving up)...


Some thoughts:

Pros: Multi-player works well on LAN.

Cons:

1- I can't upgrade ships. This is just annoying. I can't see any rational behind it. Why not have a planetary

facility you can build, "Ship Upgrade Facility" or something, that you can take a ship to, and upgrade it.

2- Ship handling in general is frustrating.

A> I would like to be able to see a list of ships that shows me whether they have any current

commands, and what the current commands are. Yes, I know of the fleet listing in the shipyard screen, but if

it shows the current status of a ship or fleet and what their orders are, I can't find it. Sure... I can

_SCRAP_ ships from here...

B> If you like to design ships, you have plenty to do. Because you have to re-design a ship every time

a new and better ship option comes along. I guess this is good and bad.

C> I have three exploration ships that have gone to the star sytem I assigned them to, and now, are

just sitting there. They've been sitting there for about 20 turns... no status message on exploration or

arrival or anything. So I send them to another system that's unexplored... same thing. Is this a bug, or am I

doing something wrong?

D> Why do ships have to be in fleets? The initial fleet that I started with I was able to break up

into it's separate ship components, and send each one on a different mission... but when I build new scout

ships of my own design at a planet, I have to wait until I have enough of them to build a fleet before I can

deploy them. Why can't I just send out single ships? Again, is this just the way it is, or am I doing

something wrong?

E> I've built ships at planets, seen the completion notification in my SitRep, and then... the ship

dissappears. I can't find it anywhere. Not listed in fleets, planets, nothing. Once again, what am I doing

wrong?

F> Space battles. Yawn. In multi-player, most of the time when I want to take direct control, it

doesn't let me, it just cedes control form me anyway, no matter what. I try clicking watch, commit... and the

final status window pops up. The few times I have been able to get it towork, it's about as exciting as

watching a game of Asteroids.

3- Diplomacy.

A- It seems like every two turns an alien race is proposing a trade agreement or some-such agreement.

That's nice... but this is after I just signed a damn agreement with them two turns ago for the same thing!

This so far seems to happen with all the races. And, once I sign the agreements, I haven't been able to see

any noticeable changes or benefits. Okay, so I'm trading with your empire... how do I track it? Where can I

see what we're trading, and what I'm gaining from it? How do I know it's beneficial? Okay, we're trading

research.. what the hell is that doing for me?

B- Okay, so I get a nice little pat on the back from a race or a "Stop that, you bad man" request...

why can't I immediately respond to them, instead of needing to backtrack and create a new request/message, and

why can't that message say "No, we like annoying you, go away." And why can't I send a message that says,

"Quit sending spies at me or I'll get angry." The only way I can express displeasure is through trade

embargos, or declaring war... but I can't tell them _WHY_ I'm angry. And what the heck is it that you want me

to stop doing when you tell me to "Stop doing what you're doing, or we'll pee in your cheerios"?

4- Research and technology.

A- Okay- I can sign a percentage of research points to an area. I like that. It gives me some

control... but, I would much rather be able to select WHAT I want to research next, instead of just sort of

shooing my scientists off in a direction. "Ok, guys, go find out everything you can about mathematics and come

back. Oh, you can make bigger shields now? Great! Start on it... wait, I wanted you to research shields...

stop researching Interplanetary Moose Migrational Habits! Come on! I don't _CARE_ about Space Moose!"

B- What the H*** is making my research percantages change from turn to turn after I've carefully set

them just how I want them? And why is it that after so many turns, I can no lnger adjust them AT ALL???

5- Spies and terrorists. They're constantly interferring with my empire... and the only way there seems to be

to stop them is to up my Opression, which makes my people less happy... but the terrorism makes them less

happy too... so I'm screwed either way. Is there a better way that I'm missing?

6- I've read the manual. It just seems to re-iterate the info that's on the Masters pop-up screens, and is

useless. The encyclopeida isn't much help either. I'd like to be able to look up quickly what a special event

or exploration discovery is and what it does for me. Okay, I found the Ruins of the Ancient Floundering

Goose... um, okay. Yay. So, do I get a bonus if I build recreational facilities there?

7- I can turn off planetary Ai and micro-manage every little thing, or I can leave it on and watch it build

absolutely useless things for me. Why is a new colony building offensive ships before it even builts shipyard

facilities? More planatary AI options would be nice.

8- Leaders. Great, they give me a few bonuses. But mostly, it seems like they're just pretty pictures. I can't

assign them to duties, or tell them to concentrate on an area, or assign them to a problematic planet...

9- Did I miss something that explains the various pros and cons of planetary territories, and whether Arable

is better for some things, while hazardous is better for others?


Like I said, I've never really played any of the MOO series before, so everything is up for debate. And these

are my impressions after jsut the first 24 hours of having the game. But after listening to my friend hype

this game for so long over the past year, I'm pretty dissapointed. For the most part, unless you like

designing ships turn after turn, or responding to endless reptetitive dimplomacy requests, it seems to be,

well... boring. This could easily be just a text based game, because for the most part, all I seem to do is

read the sit-rep and hit TURN.

So, I'm looking for feedback and discussion, instead of flames (Although I'm sure I'll get a few of the

'You're just stoopid because thise is the greatest game since S.L.I.C.E.D. Bread II' Okay- why am I stupid?

Throw me a fikkin' bone here!).

The Outsider

[Inverse Icarus]

2 A> I would like to be able to see a list of ships that shows me whether they have any current

commands, and what the current commands are. Yes, I know of the fleet listing in the shipyard screen, but if

it shows the current status of a ship or fleet and what their orders are, I can't find it.

I concur whole-heartedly.

2 D> Why do ships have to be in fleets? The initial fleet that I started with I was able to break up

into it's separate ship components, and send each one on a different mission... but when I build new scout

ships of my own design at a planet, I have to wait until I have enough of them to build a fleet before I can

deploy them. Why can't I just send out single ships? Again, is this just the way it is, or am I doing

something wrong?

your starting fleet is 3 DETACHMENTS (scout, scout, colony). you can build detachments (select detachment, reconinance for 1 scout ship).

2 E> I've built ships at planets, seen the completion notification in my SitRep, and then... the ship

dissappears. I can't find it anywhere. Not listed in fleets, planets, nothing. Once again, what am I doing

wrong?

the ships are put in the reserves and you have to create the task force.

2 F> Space battles. Yawn. In multi-player, most of the time when I want to take direct control, it

doesn't let me, it just cedes control form me anyway, no matter what. I try clicking watch, commit... and the

final status window pops up. The few times I have been able to get it towork, it's about as exciting as

watching a game of Asteroids.

you cant control stupid battles (1 on 0), and the like. i have never had an instance of a major battle i was not able to control.

and yes, the graphics suck. yes, it's on a 2d scale. yes, it's not the best combat system, but it allows for control of your fleet. tactics still exist.


- diplomacy is fubared in my opion. no arguments there -

4 A- Okay- I can sign a percentage of research points to an area. I like that. It gives me some

control... but, I would much rather be able to select WHAT I want to research next, instead of just sort of

shooing my scientists off in a direction. "Ok, guys, go find out everything you can about mathematics and come

back. Oh, you can make bigger shields now? Great! Start on it... wait, I wanted you to research shields...

stop researching Interplanetary Moose Migrational Habits! Come on! I don't _CARE_ about Space Moose!"

thats a design decision, and it makes it more realistic. if you dont like it, sucks to be you.

4B- What the H*** is making my research percantages change from turn to turn after I've carefully set

them just how I want them? And why is it that after so many turns, I can no lnger adjust them AT ALL???

never had mine change on me, but then again i usualy lock most of them after i set them.

5- Spies and terrorists. They're constantly interferring with my empire... and the only way there seems to be

to stop them is to up my Opression, which makes my people less happy... but the terrorism makes them less

happy too... so I'm screwed either way. Is there a better way that I'm missing?

train spies as counter-agents and leave them in your own empire. opression works though. stop being a pansie race and take one that likes oppression

6- I've read the manual. It just seems to re-iterate the info that's on the Masters pop-up screens, and is

useless. The encyclopeida isn't much help either. I'd like to be able to look up quickly what a special event

or exploration discovery is and what it does for me. Okay, I found the Ruins of the Ancient Floundering

Goose... um, okay. Yay. So, do I get a bonus if I build recreational facilities there?

i'm only assuming you mean planetary specials (in this case, ancient battle damage, i guess). Yes, it would be nice to see bonuses BEFORE settlign the planet, but once you own it, you can know what it does. if you see enough of it, you end up knowing what they do, but i'd really like to be able to see it befroehand. (ancient battle damage, btw, lowers the cost of terraforming)

7- I can turn off planetary Ai and micro-manage every little thing, or I can leave it on and watch it build

absolutely useless things for me. Why is a new colony building offensive ships before it even builts shipyard

facilities? More planatary AI options would be nice.

devplans. 'nuff said.

8- Leaders. Great, they give me a few bonuses. But mostly, it seems like they're just pretty pictures. I can't

assign them to duties, or tell them to concentrate on an area, or assign them to a problematic planet...

they're emprie wide. they give your whole empire +15 research (or whatever the hell your specific one does) they're not specialists that do specific problems for you.

9- Did I miss something that explains the various pros and cons of planetary territories, and whether Arable

is better for some things, while hazardous is better for others?

yes, it's in that manual thing you were so quick to toss aside. read it. but in general, the leaf next to the region gets greener the better it is for bio.

---

alright, i answered what i though was important, now time for a counter-rant

this is also my first venture into the MOO series, and the first 24 hours i had the game, i hated it too. but play it again. once you get better with the GUI, learn some of the major aspects of the game, etc, it's awesome. I notice a lot of people complain about their first game, and then do a complete 180, so stick it out.

or don't, i dont care just telling you it gets better (except for the diplomacy, ugh)

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by outsdr

1- I can't upgrade ships. This is just annoying. I can't see any rational behind it. Why not have a planetary

facility you can build, "Ship Upgrade Facility" or something, that you can take a ship to, and upgrade it.

Agreed. I usually place the old ships on guard duty to help with pirates (they can really eat you alive if you have a far flung empire)

Originally posted by outsdr
C> I have three exploration ships that have gone to the star sytem I assigned them to, and now, are just sitting there. They've been sitting there for about 20 turns... no status message on exploration or arrival or anything. So I send them to another system that's unexplored... same thing. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?

The ship does all the exploration once it gets to a star system, move it to the next immediately. You can see what is in the star system by clicking on the star and its planets. If there are specials, they will be in the Sitrep (or you will be destroyed by the guardian )

Originally posted by outsdr
E> I've built ships at planets, seen the completion notification in my SitRep, and then... the ship dissappears. I can't find it anywhere. Not listed in fleets, planets, nothing. Once again, what am I doing wrong?

To add to what uber said, any system with a mobilization center (or whatever its called) can create taskforces. a great thing to build soon after colonization, as you can easily shift reserves there.

Originally posted by outsdr
A- It seems like every two turns an alien race is proposing a trade agreement or some-such agreement.

That's nice... but this is after I just signed a damn agreement with them two turns ago for the same thing!

The subsequent agreements are improved relations. Granted no one knows exactly what that means and the benefits. check the finance panel to see how much you are getting from the trades.

Oh, and the results are just in cash and research points, I believe, nothign tangible.

Originally posted by outsdr
5- Spies and terrorists. They're constantly interferring with my empire... and the only way there seems to be

to stop them is to up my Opression, which makes my people less happy... but the terrorism makes them less

To add to uber: the area that you are getting killed in is the area that you should recruit spies. So if you are being robbed blind of your techs, get some sci spies. frieghters being blown up, econ. leaders assassinated, political. and so on. Techs will help out with your skills, as will your race picks. Alliances will help a bit, as your friends won't spy as much. Raise the unrest slider if you raise the oppress meter.

Originally posted by outsdr
7- I can turn off planetary Ai and micro-manage every little thing, or I can leave it on and watch it build absolutely useless things for me. Why is a new colony building offensive ships before it even builts shipyard facilities? More planatary AI options would be nice.

One counter is to make the generic ships, hawk defense, etc. obsolete. Troop ships as well, can always redesign later. Granted, they will then build more ground forces, but at least they will gain experience. The key is the PP of the planet, it won't try to build something that would take forever. If you increase the war setting to limited war, they can build bigger ships. I haven't quite gotten the hang of this yet, the ratios, so I tend to keep only a few types not obsoleted (word?) at a time.
Or you could try setting certain planets that don't have the industrial capacity to build the larger ships to research or something else.

Originally posted by outsdr
8- Leaders. Great, they give me a few bonuses. But mostly, it seems like they're just pretty pictures. I can't assign them to duties, or tell them to concentrate on an area, or assign them to a problematic planet...

Yeah, they do impact your empire significantly,unfortunately the easiest thing to see is how they increase unrest. The problem for me is that they have very short lives...

Originally posted by outsdr
For the most part, unless you like designing ships turn after turn,

This was a major part of MoO2 too. Every turn you get a tech, redesign the fleet. And replace all the ships in all the build queues, quite annoying.

Originally posted by outsdr
So, I'm looking for feedback and discussion, instead of flames

Hey give us some credit. You shouldn't expect flames if you are asking how to do something or how the game mechanics work. Your questions were entirely valid. Nothing really flamable here.

[outsdr]

Originally posted by UberKruX

Quote:

4B- What the H*** is making my research percantages change from turn to turn after I've carefully set them just how I want them? And why is it that after so many turns, I can no lnger adjust them AT ALL???

never had mine change on me, but then again i usualy lock most of them after i set them.

Although I have locked mine, they have been unlocked and reset. And after about turn 50, I can't lock, unock, or change their settings at all.

Quote:

5- Spies and terrorists. They're constantly interferring with my empire... and the only way there seems to be to stop them is to up my Opression, which makes my people less happy... but the terrorism makes them less happy too... so I'm screwed either way. Is there a better way that I'm missing?

train spies as counter-agents and leave them in your own empire. opression works though. stop being a pansie race and take one that likes oppression

Ok- the counter-agents make sense... but I haven't been able to determine how to do that...

yes, it's in that manual thing you were so quick to toss aside. read it. but in general, the leaf next to the region gets greener the better it is for bio.

---

Okay, duly noted... I'll read the manual more closely However... I have a big problem with the leaf getting greener... I'm color blind and don't see shades of green very well... no wonder I missed it. I'll just look more closely now that I know what to look for.

>this is also my first venture into the MOO series, and the first 24 hours i had the game, i hated it too. but play it again. once you get better with the GUI, learn some of the major aspects of the game, etc, it's awesome. I notice a lot of people complain about their first game, and then do a complete 180, so stick it out.

or don't, i dont care just telling you it gets better (except for the diplomacy, ugh)

I very much appreciate your feedback... although, being told to "play it until you like it" (and you're not the first person I've seen this from, by the way) reminds me a lot of "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

But I will continue to play....

[Inverse Icarus]

thats a sick twist on it

[NeOmega]

D> Why do ships have to be in fleets? The initial fleet that I started with I was able to break up...

So you wanna send out a scout ship eh.... well, you see, the reduced micromanagement in this game.....

to send out a newly built scout ship in MOO3:
Close this window, open that one, click on this button, there you are, now you want your newly built scout ship to go out and explore?

clear task force
add scout ship
change task force size to detatchment
change task force mission to recon.

press escape
press escape

now, wait a turn for the task force to be made
and next turn you can move it to the planet of your choice!

In the first MOO, this is how it was done:
wanna move your scout ship?
click on the stack, select the scout ship, tell it to move to the next planet

[GhengisFarb™]

I just installed the game and am trying to play. I read the ENTIRE manual 3 times (I had drill this weekend and so could take the manual with me, but not my computer). Not a very user-friendly game. Have no idea how to build a ship even though I read the manual 3 times. All the little pop-ups are completely useless and give absoulutely no help to learning how to play the game. From what I've read here you have to play for 20 hours before you learn how to play so I will continue to suffer through this in the hopes that I can absorb the gameplay instructions within the next week.

Graphics seem pretty cheesy, they are around the level you would have expected in 1996 not 2003. Even the 3d animations are "Al Gorelike" stiff and unnatural looking.

EDIT (3 hours later)

This is the most boring game I've played in 3 years. I can't control anything, it's incredibly slow and tedius and virtually no info on how to play it or what 90% of the terms mean. I have to have 3 windows open to look up stuff because the in game encyclopedia doesn't have any entries.

How the heck you people slugged through this game to get past the first 20 hours of unentertaining torture I may never know.

[Eric S]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
This is the most boring game I've played in 3 years. I can't control anything, it's incredibly slow and tedius and virtually no info on how to play it or what 90% of the terms mean. I have to have 3 windows open to look up stuff because the in game encyclopedia doesn't have any entries.

How the heck you people slugged through this game to get past the first 20 hours of unentertaining torture I may never know.

If it had been 20 hours of unentertaining torture, I wouldn't have. Yes, there were times I was aggrivated because I didn't know how to do something, but more often than not, I was having fun.

Yes, the game has problems (the AI in particular), but hopefully we'll see patches to fix some of this.

[Craterus]

NeOmega - you have written my favorite post EVER!

The only good thing I can say about the game is that the Orion Senate is everything I hoped the Civ3 UN would have been(not sure how good the AI is at ahandling it yet).

Nothing else AT ALL has been attractive about this "game".

They should have called it RUF I or MEOW I... Not MOO3.

[Crostoneman]

GengisFarb

Its like learning to skate, your butt is going hurt for a while. I was a little fustrated when I couldn't figure out how to create a formible task force to take out the planet defences, 15 task forces blown away so far, but I realized that I was trying to play MoO2. I could navigate through the UI with ease and create formible task forces that takes out those pesky blockading ships.