Hosting

[Hydey]

Originally posted by MalevolentLight
I'd rather be losing without lag than with it.

You mean you actually lose sometimes?

[Cyrion]

[StrategicKingMi]

Huts are not a dissadvantage, war. They are a GREAT advantage. The only sure way to NOT get any units or citys from huts is NOT to open any.
Not opening huts is not a strategy to consistant victory.

[DrSpike]

But you still need to consider the ramifications of popping those huts..........well, at least on some more skilful settings you do.

[War4ever]

i agree strat , the only time i don't pop a hut is if monarchy is coming up on the oedo year, otherwise i pop em all and pray !!!

[Graag]

i am firm member of the pop and pray school of thought, even when i get huts next to my first couple of undefended cities. which is a bit silly.

many years ago i had a theory that what yougot from a hut depended on the direction you entered the square. but i tested it and it was bobbins.

[rah]

Yes, there are only a few times when I will delay opening a hut.

1. I'm about ready to build a city in range of the hut, I may delay a turn or two.

2. I'm researching my "off path" tech to monarchy or "code of law" (still on the path) and it won't be that long before I'll be able to choose monarchy.

Note: this exception is one I will violate if I think I'm behind or I don't think I can protect the hut that long, or I need the popper to further explore, OR I just feel risky. But about half the time I do it, I get the crap tech and pay for it by being in despotism an extra 400 years. Which I spend yelling at myself for breaking that rule.

3. Or like War said, a turn or so from Monarchy and the extra beaker requirement will make me just miss an Oedo year.

4. If I just got a nomad and am building a city with him the next turn, I will wait a turn for the city to be formed before popping the hut in hopes of a better chance to get a another one.

5. using my second settler after the cap is founded. I'll wait to open it with a unit. (unless I feel I'm way way far behind, which doesn't happen often)

Other than that, If there's a hut, it's popped.

RAH

[War4ever]

i try to pop as many huts as possible when researching Code of Laws...this is the one tech which leads me to believe that nomads/tribes are in abundance....

again i can't prove it, but of all the techs i research early, i KNOW COL gives me better results

[Ming]

I pretty much follow what Rah says (no surprise there)

And war... maybe some research is needed on your theory.. but I have seen no evidence of what you suggest.

[rah]

Yeah, war, maybe a little research is needed, especially since that is in that narrow period when getting extra techs will kill you the most. (unless you're already off the path).

[DrSpike]

I have never seen anyone make a similar assertion about COL, and don't recall seeing any patterns myself. Still, test away War. You could have found "The War4ever hut effect" that will live on forever.

[Graag]

There are definately patches where one player gets a rash of tribes/nomads, and I'm sure a reason/pattern can be found.

Though either way huts are just another of civs little random twists that have made it last this long.

[rah]

Originally posted by Graag
There are definately patches where one player gets a rash of tribes/nomads, and I'm sure a reason/pattern can be found.

Though either way huts are just another of civs little random twists that have made it last this long.

Yes, the random twists is what keeps it fresh.

For the reason, I'm betting on my good friend "laws of probablitilites, the outlyers".

RAH

[DrSpike]

Agreed. Particularly since you focus on the 'coincidences', as with anything in life.

[atawa]

Finding huts and nomads are not completely random.

Some factors increase/decrease your chances.

[Ming]

Wasn't there a thread on this topic that had a few interesting things in it ?

[DrSpike]

Yeah Samson's hut thread was interesting. Nothing about CoL that I recall though.

[rah]

Originally posted by atawa
Finding huts and nomads are not completely random.

Some factors increase/decrease your chances.

Agreed about finding huts, not random at all.

[War4ever]

well i have noticed this, either you get war techs or science techs on the path to republic...ie col, alpha, mysticism etc....now i know you need the prereqs for this, but i think maybe the civ you take, and its preferred govt choice as set out in the rules.txt could determine which path you take.

for instance, i either get HR, masonry, wc, or i get the col, alpha, mysticism line of techs with BW in there as well....sometimes CB as well...

so its either a bunch of good techs, and monarchy by 2850-3050 in sp mode or a bunch of crap and then the other pattern.

if you open enough huts your screwed, b/c you will get tech off the path.....

but in your initial hut search , these patterns come out loud and clear for me....i have done a lot of sp mode testing by opening say 10 huts or so on the world map.
again as the chinese

[Ming]

Hey war... check this thread out...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...3&pagenumber=1

[War4ever]

YES i remember and reread this thread, but am a bit lost following it all....i may have to do some testing on my own..... b/c i certainly think the COL rule is in effect.

[Cobra]

You´re right, the host gets the best starting position when he´s clean. You can test it easyly for yourself. Start a 4-player-MP-game and choose „show human starting position“ (or so, i have the german version) .
That´s the reason why in our league the weaker player gets the right to host.
In the last weaks a new idea came up: if you want to play a duel then choose 3 players. The second player saves at the beginning and the host quits game. After the second player becomes host, the first player rejoins as the former AI and now nobody has a starting tech or an extremly better place than the other.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Cobra
In the last weaks a new idea came up: if you want to play a duel then choose 3 players. The second player saves at the beginning and the host quits game. After the second player gets host, the first player rejoins as the former AI and now nobody has a starting tech or an extremly better place than the other.

Cunning.

Has anyone in the German league tested the starts for the alleged advantage?

[rah]

Originally posted by Cobra
You´re right, the host gets the best starting position when he´s clean. You can test it easyly for yourself. Start a 4-player-MP-game and choose „show human starting position“ (or so, i have the german version) .

The show human starting position only works when you have 4 humans in the game. You keep saying they get the best starting position, but have yet to quantify it. What makes a better starting position? Just how much better (if any) statistically is it? When I did some testing, I didn't see any obvious advantages and could see no patterns. Until we see some test results, it's still just an opinion.

And on your 3man duel proposal. Am I missing something or does this mean an AI is present in your duels?

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by rah

And on your 3man duel proposal. Am I missing something or does this mean an AI is present in your duels?

No, the original host quits, and takes the AI civ upon his return. Presumably, the alleged host advantage would then die with the deposed host, since the new host would be the second civ placed, and the old host would be the third (or vice versa).

At least I think that's what he meant

[Cobra]

[Graag]

But doesn't the AI take over the civ the host quit?

Other than that it is a good way to get around any percieved host advantage, though like Rah I'd want to see some quantification of what makes a better starting position.

[rah]

Hmm, guess I'm confused. Normally when a player quits, the AI takes over for their civ.

[atawa]

unless you set it to destroy civ upon retirement or how its called.

[Graag]

ah, yes. makes sense now.

but I still want to know what is considered a host advantage.