View Poll Results: What should the topic be for AU207?
Huge map 7 33.33%
Always war 3 14.29%
Total war 4 19.05%
One City 3 14.29%
No Improvements 0 0%
Wait! I've got a better idea! 4 19.05%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old March 14, 2003, 00:16   #1
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Course description for AU207
We should still leave some time for AU206 to finish up, but we can still start discussing what the next AU course will be. Please vote for your favorite option (and please throw in your own suggestion!).

1. Huge map: Self-explanatory. Should involve some different strategy.

2. Always war: There must always be a red line between your head and another leader's head in the diplomacy screen. This is not so hard, but might be worth checking out.

3. Total war: All lines starting at your head in the diplomacy screen must be red. This should be really hard, and would require a carefully tailored map, as well as (probably) a reduction in difficulty for most of us.

4. One City: Never build more than one city, but win the game anyway. We could turn all victory conditions on, but some would be more presigious than others (Conquest, then Spaceship, then Cultural, etc.). Personally, my favorite option. Edit: This is commonly known as 'OCC'.

5. No Improvements: Never build or control an improvement or Wonder. This could teach us a lot, but is somewhat boring. Maybe best for a smaller map (Tiny or Small). Edit: This is commonly known as 'NIC'.

6. Please post your suggestions!


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

Last edited by Dominae; March 14, 2003 at 09:20.
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 00:52   #2
badams52
King
 
badams52's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: near the magic kingdom
Posts: 1,001
Re: Course description for AU207
Quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
4. One City: Never build more than one city, but win the game anyway. We could turn all victory conditions on, but some would be more presigious than others (Conquest, then Domination, then Spaceship, then Cultural, etc.). Personally, my favorite option.
By this I assume you mean you may capture other cities (thus domination being possible).

Quote:
5. No Improvements: Never build or control an improvement or Wonder. This could teach us a lot, but is somewhat boring. Maybe best for a smaller map (Tiny or Small).
Having given birth and playing out this one let me be the first to say, "For the love of God, don't do it, don't do it!!!" Maybe a tiny map would be less of a headache (talk about an early conquest game in the making), but I'm afraid using a tiny map would undercut the biggest lessons one learns from an NIC game.

I'm not going to vote, but my fav would be the Total war one. And what govt would you choose? Democracy? I think not!
__________________
badams
badams52 is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 02:09   #3
nbarclay
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
nbarclay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 6,676
I would suggest doing the huge map game outside the regular AU timetable, since not all AU regulars will play it and it's likely to take a long time for those that do play it. Of course it will take even longer if we're playing regular AU games alongside that one, but you can't have everything. Actually, having a huge map game and a OCC game (or variant thereof) at the same time would be just about the ultimate in contrasts.
nbarclay is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 03:25   #4
Master Zen
PtWDG Glory of WarApolytoners Hall of FameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamSpanish CiversPtWDG2 Latin LoversC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
Master Zen's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
The One City challenge seems rather fun

I would also go with the no improvements course, but I voted for 1 city.

Total war and always war?? that's what happens in all my games anyway
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.

Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
Master Zen is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 03:48   #5
aaglo
King
 
aaglo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:42
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the contradiction is filled with holes...
Posts: 1,398
How about playing the game through without changing the government - thus staying at despotism all the time?

"The power (or weakness) of despotism"
__________________
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are still missing.
aaglo is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 09:18   #6
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Re: Re: Course description for AU207
Quote:
Originally posted by badams52
By this I assume you mean you may capture other cities (thus domination being possible).
No, I messed up. You can never capture cities either (true OCC). Therefore Domination is not possible.


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 09:20   #7
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Total War. "Always war" is pretty close to how I play normally, but I've never taken on everyone at once from the beginning.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 09:22   #8
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally posted by aaglo
"The power (or weakness) of despotism"
Interesting challenge, but what would we learn from it?

Arrian (and others): Total War is really hard! Just a warning...


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 10:07   #9
Fosse
Alpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV: MultiplayerC4WDG Stratega
King
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,668
If I had to pick from this list, I'd say total war... OCC and NIC are just so far from the norm that I don't see lots of useful comparison ("Hey, I built a temple right away and eventually won by culture TOO!"). My first choice would be Huge Map... I recently upgraded and I THINK I could handle at least until the late middle ages without breaking my monitor...

Barring that... what about a game where naval supremecy is a must? It could even be huge, I supposse, with lots and lots of water. Archipelago, anyone?
Fosse is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 10:39   #10
Jawa Jocky
Prince
 
Jawa Jocky's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 555
Quote:
Originally posted by Fosse
what about a game where naval supremecy is a must? It could even be huge, I supposse, with lots and lots of water. Archipelago, anyone?
I voted for this idea


My 2nd choice would be OCC. I think if we did OCC we should have two courses: 207a and 207b. These games are short and very different from the norm. 2 games would encourage learning and AU is all about eduecation
Jawa Jocky is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 10:46   #11
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Dominae,

I'm sure it is. No extortion.

Still, gimme China and a spot 'o luck, and I'll give you the world.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 11:22   #12
minke19104
Warlord
 
minke19104's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
How bout:

7. Geonocide.

Basically close to total warring but you are NOT allowed to capture and assimilate any cities/workers. Every cities captured must be razed, and every foreign workers created/captured must be disbanded on site.

The main objective is Conquest and having your civ's native citizen as the sole survivor of the whole planet.

Last edited by minke19104; March 14, 2003 at 11:33.
minke19104 is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 11:24   #13
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Now THAT would be REALLY hard.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 12:31   #14
Jawa Jocky
Prince
 
Jawa Jocky's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 555
Quote:
Originally posted by minke19104
How bout:

7. Geonocide.

Basically close to total warring but you are NOT allowed to capture and assimilate any cities/workers. Every cities captured must be razed, and every foreign workers created/captured must be disbanded on site.

The main objective is Conquest and having your civ's native citizen as the sole survivor of the whole planet.
Make this a NIC w/ a barracks exception and you have extreme warmongering
Jawa Jocky is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 13:33   #15
minke19104
Warlord
 
minke19104's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
How bout a Huge Map, Total War, Always in War, NIC, Geonocide game?

minke19104 is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 13:34   #16
Master Zen
PtWDG Glory of WarApolytoners Hall of FameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamSpanish CiversPtWDG2 Latin LoversC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
Master Zen's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
Quote:
Originally posted by minke19104
How bout:

7. Geonocide.

Basically close to total warring but you are NOT allowed to capture and assimilate any cities/workers. Every cities captured must be razed, and every foreign workers created/captured must be disbanded on site.

The main objective is Conquest and having your civ's native citizen as the sole survivor of the whole planet.
Now THAT's a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I reconsider my vote??
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.

Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
Master Zen is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 13:45   #17
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Genocide is not that hard. When I played my NIC game, I assumed the NIC rules meant that you would always have to raze a city when you conquered it (otherwise you would get to sell the improvements, which did not feel right).

Again, this would be fun to try out, but what would we learn? I suppose I'm just being a wet blanket because I've done Genocide already.

I know I'm pushing this point, but Total War is going to be hard. Consider that the first civ you meet you have to declare war on immediately. This means that, if you're playing on Monarch/Emperor, the AI's free units are going to beeline for your capital. I cringe to think about trying it on Deity (4 free Warriors and 2 Spearmen, is it?). This effect is also present in Always War, but here you can pick and choose your enemy based on how threatened you feel once you meet multiple civs.

I voted for OCC, but Total War is the one I would prefer to play, by far. Arrian is right in that China would be the civ to be, unless you really wanted to beeline for the Great Library, in case a Commercial civ might do better (Carthage?).


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 14:17   #18
minke19104
Warlord
 
minke19104's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
Always war is a moot point since you can just basically reduce a civ to 1 city, keep a ring of defender around it, and stay at war with that civ from beginning to end.

I guess you're kinda right with Genocide thing, Dominae. But in your NIC game, you did keep the captured workers rite?
minke19104 is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 14:36   #19
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Yes, I kept a few captured Workers (maybe around 15 total), but most of these joined my cities. I conquered many many Workers on the continents away from my home, but I never had the patience to ferry them back by Galley. So they mostly just went into a big foreign Worker stack of doom, which grew to size 50 or so by the time the game was over.

Anyway, I can see how not being able to capture Workers can be a big deal for some players. So Genocide sounds like a fine option after all (just not for me!).


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 14:53   #20
nbarclay
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
nbarclay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 6,676
Personally, I have very little interest in games where peace and building are denied their proper place. The game is Civilization, after all, and while I'm quite happy to use warfare to bring additional people and cities into my civilization, I find flagrantly uncivilized styles of play distasteful. If people want to go for "always war" or "total war" or NIC or such, I won't stand in the way, but I seriously doubt that I'll participate either.

Nathan
nbarclay is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:10   #21
nbarclay
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
nbarclay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 6,676
What would people think of having a huge-map game in parallel with a couple back-to-back "bloodthirsty warmonger" type games? That would, admittedly, leave builders with slow computers in a bit of a predicament. But since both types of games have a bit more of niche audiences than most AU games, the flexibility of being able to choose which type of game people prefer to play could be nice.

Nathan
nbarclay is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:14   #22
BRC
InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Prince
 
BRC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 495
My vote goes for OCC. I think there's more to learn with it.
BRC is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:17   #23
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Let's wait another couple of days to see where the voting gets us. I would like all the AU games to occur sequentially (just my own preference), but I can see the merit of doing the Huge map one "in the background".

Nathan, exploring the various possibilties of Civ3 undoubtedly involves some very warmonger-ish games. Maybe we could try harder to come up with some more peaceful ideas? Like...OCC?




Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:24   #24
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Have we ever done a "no fastmover units" game?

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:32   #25
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Have we ever done a "no fastmover units" game?
Not that I know of.
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:40   #26
minke19104
Warlord
 
minke19104's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
What would that be? Anything with 1 move only?

Does it mean you cant use Mech Inf, since its 2 move? And attack with Guerillas only in late game?
minke19104 is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:53   #27
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
I would use Infantry/Artillery (especially with the AU mod). But I do that already, so the Industrial age would not be a problem for me...!


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 15:56   #28
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Hmm... the late industrial -> modern age does present problems for that type of limitation, it's true.

Then again, I love fastmovers, so that type of game might end up annoying me.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 16:03   #29
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
I was thinking about a real "island hopping" game... not a 'pelago map, since those give you long stringy (but still pretty big) continents.

No, I'm thinking of a plethora of little islands. Maybe a few medium sized ones (room for maybe 5 or 6 cities, if building with 4 tile spacing) but nothing bigger.

Exploration & Expansion are fun "builder" things to do. So let's lengthen that process. Lots of small islands (some reachable via coastal waters, some via sea, and still more via ocean) would do that, I think. Say a standard map with 4-6 civs, instead of the normal 8, or even a large with 6-8 civs. It would have to be a user-made map, of course.

Just a thought.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old March 14, 2003, 16:18   #30
nbarclay
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
nbarclay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:42
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 6,676
Quote:
Originally posted by Dominae

Nathan, exploring the various possibilties of Civ3 undoubtedly involves some very warmonger-ish games. Maybe we could try harder to come up with some more peaceful ideas? Like...OCC?
If you think I mind warmonger-ish, you've obviuosly forgotten my AU 206 AAR already. But that came naturally due to the nature of the map and the civ I was playing, not artificially due to special rules that said I had to fight whether it made sense to or not. There's a huge difference between the two. at least for me.
nbarclay is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 17:42.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team