Bush Speech Thread

[KrazyHorse]

You're on a bit of a hair trigger, now aren't you.

[Ming]

Originally posted by faded glory
You wouldnt!?

If you keep it up, you will be the first "poster boy" to show other people that we aren't going to put up with this kind of crap during the next few weeks.

[Sava]

I agree with you Troll but...

Shame, but an aggressive act such as President Bush is leading, is exactly what the Terrorists need to show them that we are lying down and taken it anymore!

That's exactly what Osama is telling his d1ckless followers.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Frogger
You're on a bit of a hair trigger, now aren't you.

You're damn right. So don't make me pull the trigger on you. Again, we aren't going to be putting up with crap.

You will behave, or you won't be posting.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

I have come to the conclusion that this war has nothing to do with terror, and everything to do with hegemonic assertion. So Sadaam has little to do with the equation, other than to provide a conveinant demon to rally the American people around. If you disagree, then I'm afraid we have simply reached an impasse my friend.

I disagree 100% and think you've missed the boat. I believe this war has to do with US interests, but hegemonic assertion isn't it.

exactly.

let me make an analogy that'll probably get flamed by someone.

some guy walks up to you and says, "if i had a gun, i'd blow your f*cking head off".

he then starts looking for a gun (or, developing a projectile weapon of some sort).

you'd get the f*cker arrested for assault, right? you'd call the cops and wait for them to arrest him / rectify the suitation. before he got the gun with which he threatened to shoot you.

so the cops show up but do nothing for 12 years, while this dude continues to build a gun, saying things like "i think you should check over there!", and "sorry, you can't check my garage right now, get the hell out."

he's going to get a gun and blow your f*cking head off.

so, do you let the bumbling cops keep trying? maybe your neighbors want you to. or do you do what you have to do for the interest of self preservation, and beat the guy senseless, until he dies or runs the hell away.

it's the same concept with large scale implications.

saddam has biological and chemical weapons. he's used them in the past. he's working on nukes. he's said on several occasions, if he could nuke the US he would.

he's a f*cking sh*tlord ruling a country that supports him as long as the AKs are aimed at their heads.

we'll see how the Iraqis feel after the war is over. if they still support saddam and loathe america after he is deposed, well f*ck, we tried to help the people.

[faded glory]

Ya ok Ming. Ill watch myself this time. I still dont think you should ban me during a war. You know when I did the clinton impersonation a few years ago you permabanned my old account.

[Drake Tungsten]

Since when is peacekeeping accomplished without the consent of those who have the peacekeepers watching over them?

It's happened before. Who gave consent for UN peacekeeping operations in Bosnia?

Jesus. Is English your first language, Drake?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
It's happened before. Who gave consent for UN peacekeeping operations in Bosnia?

As far as I can recall, nobody (though I may be wrong on this, given that it happened when I was 13).

And IIRC, most of the operations were simply observation. There were very few operations in which the "peacekeepers" were used to disarm and disband local forces. They were more fond of retreating in the face of any opposition because they did not have a peacemaking mandate.

[Sava]

Ming: I'm being pretty good I think, huh Ming? Despite being attacked twice so far Can I still insult the terrorists? Is that okay?

In my attempted formation of a "profile" of Bush, I've postulated many things. IMO, he does think he's acting in America's best interests. I think Iraq was on the agenda even before 9-11, but the attacks vindicated his suspicions that Saddam needs to go. It's like when a murder detective knows a guy is guilty and doesn't have enough evidence. It still doesn't justify Bush's fabricated evidence, or his use of years' old weapons data on Iraq. But I just think he truly believes Saddam is a threat and needs to be removed as soon as possible. I agree Saddam is bad, but I don't see him as a threat to America. I object to the war because I think it's a terrible misappropriation of personel and funds. Killing Saddam stops Saddam from supporting terrorist acts against the US, but it doesn't stop other terrorists from attacking us. I still think we're just as vulnerable to attack as we were on 9-10-01. I don't mean to get side-tracked, but I have to wonder how much Bush is really trying to improve security when he's giving 100 billion in tax cuts to the rich, while only 41 billion to homeland security.

I also think that the American public isn't being given all the necessary information. There are morons on the left and on the right who are muddling up such discussions with their own stupidity.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Felch X
For after the war

If America doesn't claim Iraq's oil, will the leftists who claimed it was all for oil admit that they were full of ****?

And if America does go back on its promise, will the hawk do likewise?

I think this is important. People have said a lot of things, and I'm tired of folks forgetting all the nasty horrible things they said once they were proven wrong. I remember a lot of doves were saying that Afghanistan would be a bloodbath for the Americans, and were wrong. Did they ever admit it?

Oil is a tougher thing than bloodbaths - that's easy to quantify the results, or lack thereof.

"Taking" oil, or getting cutesy contracts for it, is so passé. Oil is a globally supplied commodity, with a fairly tight balance of supply and demand, so you don't need to "take" it physically in any way to profit enormously, or to lose your ass (or gain huge leverage on everyone else's economy among the industrialized and oil producing nations, which is most of the world). Just having the power, directly or indirectly, to tweak that supply and demand balance can have a huge effect, and is a huge amount of strategic power.

[Drake Tungsten]

As far as I can recall, nobody

That kind of ruins your point then, unless you want to argue that UN operations in Bosnia were an invasion...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ming


If you keep it up, you will be the first "poster boy" to show other people that we aren't going to put up with this kind of crap during the next few weeks.

We need to make an example of someone, Ming - let's just pick one and get it over with.

[Ming]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
We need to make an example of someone, Ming - let's just pick one and get it over with.

Don't worry... somebody will "sign" up quick. It never fails in situations like this.

But I like your thinking on this

[Sava]

The UN operations in Bosnia and Kosovo were cowardly bombing attacks... not a ground invasion.

As for people who say this war is solely about oil... why bother arguing with such stupid people, huh Felch X? Again... prove your point, don't worry about pointing out how stupid others are. Chances are, most people recognize their ignorance also.

There are always going to be retards and flamers on both sides of an issue. I've been one on many occasions, and probably still am I'm at least trying to make an attempt to be a reasonable and mature debater.

[ThePlagueRat]

Now the retorics in Washington are ranting about ending a dictatorship.


Why did not USA condemn the Chilean abduction of civilians during the regime of dictator Pinochet? Do people forget so soon?

[Sava]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Now the retorics in Washington are ranting about ending a dictatorship.


Why did not USA condemn the Chilean abduction of civilians during the regime of dictator Pinochet? Do people forget so soon?

good point Plague Rat
We're supporting Saudi Arabia, an oppressive regime that isn't a Democracy. SA and Syria both support terrorists much more than Saddam does. It goes back to how far Bush is going to go to get Saddam. Me, personally, I wouldn't give one red cent to those Saudi f***ers.

Getting Saddam is a just and worthy goal. But the price we're going to pay isn't worth it, IMO.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sava
There are always going to be retards and flamers on both sides of an issue.

And if they continue... they will be sitting this war out.

Again... we aren't putting up with crap this time around.

Heck, MtG wants to start right now.

Beware...

[ThePlagueRat]

Good thing you are trying to be reasonable Sava.
But why do you think the US administration got to the
EU2 rating equivalent "Hated throughout the whole world"

Concerning this idea of hate and fear, you should all watch the documentary 'Bowling for Columbine', and start to think...

BTW, you should also try out EU2.

[Sava]

ahhh I know Mingy... I'm not insulting anyone. please don't ban me!

[Alex]

Originally posted by UberKruX


let me make an analogy that'll probably get flamed by someone.

some guy walks up to you and says, "if i had a gun, i'd blow your f*cking head off".

he then starts looking for a gun (or, developing a projectile weapon of some sort).

you'd get the f*cker arrested for assault, right? you'd call the cops and wait for them to arrest him / rectify the suitation. before he got the gun with which he threatened to shoot you.

so the cops show up but do nothing for 12 years, while this dude continues to build a gun, saying things like "i think you should check over there!", and "sorry, you can't check my garage right now, get the hell out."

he's going to get a gun and blow your f*cking head off.

so, do you let the bumbling cops keep trying? maybe your neighbors want you to. or do you do what you have to do for the interest of self preservation, and beat the guy senseless, until he dies or runs the hell away.

it's the same concept with large scale implications.

Except that you gave him the gun in the first place.

[ThePlagueRat]

Exactly, alexnm. And gave a gun to Bin Laden, and to Pinochet, and the rest of the psychopats...

[Sava]

Funny how those facts are omitted from the American news media reports.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Alexnm


Except that you gave him the gun in the first place.

Bullsh1t, most Iraqi weapons are Russian-built. T72s, T62s, T54s, MIGs, etc.., they are not American stuff.

Oh yes, Iraqis had some Mirage, too. You should know who built those things.

[Sava]

Lord Merciless, their heavy machinery, maybe, but what you don't see on CNN is the billions that was given to Saddam, as late as 1989. He invaded Kuwait with US weapons and ammo. And we gave him the money with which to buy his Soviet equipment.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


Bullsh1t, most Iraqi weapons are Russian-built. T72s, T62s, T54s, MIGs, etc.., they are not American stuff.

Oh yes, Iraqis had some Mirage, too. You should know who built those things.

we did give them the beginnings of a chemical weapons system, and ignored them when they used them against iran, it is a valid point.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Sava
Lord Merciless, their heavy machinery, maybe, but what you don't see on CNN is the billions that was given to Saddam, as late as 1989. He invaded Kuwait with US weapons and ammo. And we gave him the money with which to buy his Soviet equipment.

What US weapons was Saddam using when he invaded Kuwait? Could you name any?

Yes, we did give him billions, by buying his oil. Did we give him weapons directly? I doubt it.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by UberKruX


we did give them the beginnings of a chemical weapons system, and ignored them when they used them against iran, it is a valid point.

Then it's more compelling to undo the mistakes we had done.

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by Sava
Funny how those facts are omitted from the American news media reports.

Yeah, funny thing.
As I said, you should watch 'Bowling for Columbine' or read the book Michael Moore gave out. There you can see how the media is responding to certain issues and omitting them from their reports. And in Times Magazine you can read about the ongoing information war. The press is so selective and divided, it's really alarming how they influence lots of people.

[Nubclear]

alright, just go back to russia and shut up now. if you really love russia so much, and hate america with enough passion to compare it to a tolitarian regime bent on genocide, we don't really want you here. thank you.

I love this country enough to care. I love Russia enough to care.

Too bad they are both going down the tubes

Even though Uber seems to like our mentally-handicapped, evil president; he does make a good point. Despite objecting to the war, I still support our troops. They're the home team. And if you don't want to root for the home team, then get the hell out.

Whoa sava, back off. I support our troops, I support the fair and democratic UNITED STATES OF AMERIcA. I want out troops to come back home to their families instead of being captured and tortured, killed, or having to make the decision of pissing off the military or killing innocent civilians. I don't believe our troops actually want to kill people, they want to "defend" what they believe is just (or are being forced to defend it.).

However, that does not excuse the actions of America. What they are doing has chilling similarities to both the former Nazi regieme in Germany and the former Stalinist regieme in my home country (Trust me, I've seen it. I can tell when its beginning to break out).

Sava, you of all people I would expect to understand that blindly rooting for the home team can mean suicide. If I were to do it, I'd be cheering Stalin on and hoping Russia goes all over the world to kill non-pure Russians.

What Nazi Germany did was evil. What Stalinist Russia did was evil. And what America is doing now is evil. I support our troops, but I dont support the government.

Enough said.

I'm probably the biggest Bush-hater around,

Not quite.......

but I've also got two buddies in the Marines.

1 in the marines, 1 in the army, and 2 in the navy.

when we start systematically killing the Iraqi people for no reason, come back and yell at me

Maybe not systematically, but we can prevent it.....And still have regieme change.

(yet)

And I never will. The Taliban was an evil regieme as well and I'm glad they were removed from power.

People who usually make such stupid comparisons have no idea what Nazi Germany was like.

Ok, I may not know what Nazi-Germany was like (because I didnt live there) but trust me, I know what muderous regiemes are like. Probably moreso than you do. Your not one to be lecturing ME on it

Tass never said that he hated Americans,

No I didnt, and I dont. I'm disappointed, but I don't hate them.

he implied that he could no longer support the actions of his country,

bashing the president, bashing Republicans, being against war... and being anti-American.

The swastika is a hindu symbol for spiritual purity. That symbolism is a good one. The german version of it is for the death of "unpure ones" (Jews). Thats bad.

The symbolism of the American flag is one of freedom and democracy. Thats good. But it also symbolizes the nation and its actions, and trust me....It is one murderous country.

but the whole "America SuckS!!" thing gets old real quick.

Yes. But seeing on the news how America continues to defy the rest of the world, more civil liberties weakened, etc....That gets old real quick as well. But it never stops. It probably wont stop for another 6 years.

If Tass gave a reasoned argument, people would have no problem. Instead he talks **** about our country every chance he gets,

I've stated numerous times I love this country. But its fallen so low it disgusts me to no end.

praises Russia,

Yep. Though as of late Russias actions have been a bit.....er.....

, calls us Nazis,

Not the American people. they've been brainwashed. But your government......

trolls, trolls, trolls.

When in Rome.......

So let me clarify one more time to prevent from getting flamed again: I LOVE AMERICA!!! **== It is one of the greatest nations on Earth. Or at least it WAS. Now we have a truely evil regieme in power and the American people have become brainwashed sheep.

THIS DOESNT MEAN I HATE AMERICANS. THIS DOESNT MEAN I HATE OUR TROOPS. But it does mean I hate our government. They've destroyed our image, and have gone against everything America stands for. And that is why I "bash this country" so much.

Once a democrat is in power (or a better republican), you'll see me praise the country more and bash is less.

Edit: Is it just me, or did sava just troll me?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
AFAIK, what GWB did - demanding a regime change - is illegal. That is, it violates international law.

Not really. The UNSC authorized the same thing in 1994 wrt Haiti.