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Old March 22, 2003, 23:24   #31
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War ended slavery? Slavery began its decline well before the Civil War. The United States was rather late on that one.

And Communism was never ended, because it never (at least on a large scale) began. The "communist" regimes out there are just dictatorships with a command economy, and that is not what Marx's idea of communism was.
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Old March 22, 2003, 23:30   #32
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I see our leftists and socialists are coming out of the clockwork to chime in...

I seriously do not see how you can possibly contend that communism is alive and well. Cuba and North Korea are in desperate squalor, China is busy jumping ship to Capitalism, and Southeast Asia is doing similarly.
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Old March 22, 2003, 23:53   #33
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Giving war credit for ending slavery makes very little sense. If blacks were free in the US, why would there be a need for a Martin Luther King?
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Old March 23, 2003, 00:26   #34
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Conscription meets the definition of slavery quite well, yes.
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Old March 23, 2003, 01:20   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthVeda
I see our leftists and socialists are coming out of the clockwork to chime in...

I seriously do not see how you can possibly contend that communism is alive and well. Cuba and North Korea are in desperate squalor, China is busy jumping ship to Capitalism, and Southeast Asia is doing similarly.
Even so, war didn't end communism. Actual wars fought against communism were stalemates/failures: Korea and Vietnam.

It was peace that killed communism, actually.
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Old March 23, 2003, 01:27   #36
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That's silly?

I just had a conversation with my wife in which she kept referring to the terrorist attacks of 7-11, despite the funny looks I gave her.

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Old March 23, 2003, 03:08   #37
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Maybe she wanted a Slurpie!
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Old March 23, 2003, 03:14   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthVeda
I see our leftists and socialists are coming out of the clockwork to chime in...

I seriously do not see how you can possibly contend that communism is alive and well. Cuba and North Korea are in desperate squalor, China is busy jumping ship to Capitalism, and Southeast Asia is doing similarly.
Are you responding to me? I said that Communism never existed, not that it wasn't defeated.
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Old March 23, 2003, 04:16   #39
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David is just silly

Do you expect a mother to try to explain the complicated geo-political situation in the world to a 6 year old? Or whatever age she is.

The truth is probably that her daddy couldn't find a good paying job, so is killing people for a living
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Old March 23, 2003, 13:56   #40
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id rather the parent say we are forcibly enforcing our ideals on other people rather than defending our ideals.
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Old March 23, 2003, 14:39   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthVeda
I see our leftists and socialists are coming out of the clockwork to chime in...

I seriously do not see how you can possibly contend that communism is alive and well. Cuba and North Korea are in desperate squalor, China is busy jumping ship to Capitalism, and Southeast Asia is doing similarly.
According to Marxist theory, those aren't Communist states. It was his contention that Communism would arise from within industrial states, not agrarian ones.
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Old March 23, 2003, 14:42   #42
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and eventually the U.S. will be communist. It may take 100 years though.
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Old March 23, 2003, 14:46   #43
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I agree with the thread title. So far this thread has been silly.
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Old March 23, 2003, 15:28   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Giving war credit for ending slavery makes very little sense. If blacks were free in the US, why would there be a need for a Martin Luther King?
...uhmmm...actually war helped freeing the slaves...just not the way, everybody think it did:

During the American Civil War, the....uhmmm...always forget what they called each other....Union (?) set slaves more or less "free" so the ex-slaves could join the war as soldiers, and the suvivors could then live slave-free for the rest of their life...

...or so I've heard...

That means, in some way, the war set some slaves free
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Old March 23, 2003, 15:48   #45
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the slaves were free. They just lacked some civil rights that the rest of the population had.

but other minorities lacked civil rights as well- so you can't say it was because of slavery. Just you run of the mill racism
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Old March 23, 2003, 16:03   #46
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Re: This Is Just Silly
Quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
So, I saw some news clip the other day of a mother explaining to her daughter that daddy was in Iraq "defending the Constitution."

Now come on. Defending the Constitution? Oh, this must be sorta like the people who claim that WW1, for example, or Korea, were about defending the United States. Do people seriously believe this, or are they just too hyped up on nationalism/patriotism to think?

And no, this thread isn't about bashing the current war. No, naturally I don't support it, but what I'm *****ing about here is the fact that people use patriotic slogans that have no bearing in truth and absolutely no accuracy. And even worse, they're teaching this stuff to children.

/

Itīs just the Propaganda in the media.
Some people just believe all the things they are fed by the media TV and/or newspaper.

Itīs just as ridiculous as those appeals not to buy anything from countries/companies who donīt support the war (and not to hear songs or watch the movies from Singers/actors which are against the war).

As a sidenote:
I wonder if those people who make these appeals know, how much they resemble the propaganda of the National socialists in the third reich? (there it was: "Kauft nicht bei Juden" ["donīt buy anything from jews"] )
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Old March 23, 2003, 16:12   #47
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the media never said we were defending the consitution!!

I can't believe you guys think the media feeds propaganda. In fact I think they are hurting the U.S. war effort and are making the U.S. look bad. But they have a right to report.

So stop blaming the media or the goverment for this dumb mother!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is dumb and stupid by her own making, not the media's.
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Old March 23, 2003, 21:20   #48
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I'm not blaming the media for the mother's stupidity, I'm blaming the mother. If anything, I applaud the media for ****ing giving me a good laugh.
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Old March 23, 2003, 21:41   #49
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Quote:
During the American Civil War, the....uhmmm...always forget what they called each other....Union (?) set slaves more or less "free" so the ex-slaves could join the war as soldiers, and the suvivors could then live slave-free for the rest of their life...
First off, it is more accurate to say that slavery ended worldwide starting with the British abolition bills, eventually resulting in the total abolishment of slavery in the British Empire, finished well before the civil war began. The civil war affected the US only.

In the US, how different is the sitaution after slavery if you can hire black people cheap, at far lower wages than white people after the civil war in the South? Not much at all. You might not call them slaves, but they still are not free.

This is the big difference between the Emacipation Proclamation and the abolition bills, in that the abolition bills set the black man on an equal footing.
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Old March 23, 2003, 22:08   #50
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switching through radio stations today I heard people complaining about protesters not supporting the troops who are "protecting their freedom."
wtf?
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Old March 23, 2003, 22:13   #51
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I Knew Not To Look. I knew It Would Be Stupid.
Quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
So, I saw some news clip the other day of a mother explaining to her daughter that daddy was in Iraq "defending the Constitution."

Now come on. Defending the Constitution? Oh, this must be sorta like the people who claim that WW1, for example, or Korea, were about defending the United States. Do people seriously believe this, or are they just too hyped up on nationalism/patriotism to think?

And no, this thread isn't about bashing the current war. No, naturally I don't support it, but what I'm *****ing about here is the fact that people use patriotic slogans that have no bearing in truth and absolutely no accuracy. And even worse, they're teaching this stuff to children.

/

SSDD


Lemme see. Was it New England area that teacher's caught hell for telling students of military members, that their parents were bad?


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Old March 23, 2003, 22:33   #52
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Every time a child asks me something about the world affairs, I don't try to relieve him/her as if there was some pure good against some pure evil. I insist war, and world affairs in general always have some extent of egoism.
They may not understand anything, but they like that I treat them with respect rather than dismissing their questions with simplistic answers.

On topic : This mother is really silly. I mourn for her child, or rather for her chances to lose the ability to criticize in the future... It is very dangerous to teach jingosim and veneration of the rulers to Children.
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Old March 23, 2003, 22:40   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
and eventually the U.S. will be communist. It may take 100 years though.
You need to lay off the peyote buttons, Diss.
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Old March 23, 2003, 22:50   #54
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What I do not understand, is why some people think I am unpatriotic just because I'm not dumb enough to believe in the propaganda of the Bush administration.
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Old March 23, 2003, 23:12   #55
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Quote:
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What I do not understand, is why some people think I am unpatriotic just because I'm not dumb enough to believe in the propaganda of the Bush administration.
Because believeing in propaganda is expected from people in time of war. It is another way to support the effort of war, and thus to support your fatherland.

Edit : I am serious : the confusion between supporting your country and supporting you government is big during a time of war (nothing new here). And the confusion between supporting your government and trusting his propaganda is big as well. Propaganda tries hard to maintain this confusion.
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Old March 24, 2003, 08:34   #56
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Was it New England area that teacher's caught hell for telling students of military members, that their parents were bad?
That was a Faux News/Washington Moonie Times fabrication.
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Old March 24, 2003, 08:38   #57
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DV: slavery existed in brazil even after the american civil war. and do not get me started on the way emancipation act was proclaimed....
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Old March 24, 2003, 09:18   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I agree with the thread title. So far this thread has been silly.
Hmm trying to provoke you 1000th flame again donidoc?
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