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Old March 25, 2003, 02:09   #61
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Don't hey have, like, diamonds there?
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Old March 25, 2003, 02:09   #62
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Originally posted by Felch X


Compared to the rest of Latin America. If Puerto Rico were independent it would be the wealthiest nation in Latin America, and I believe, the third wealthiest in the Americas.
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Old March 25, 2003, 02:10   #63
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Originally posted by Ted Striker


I don't deny that.

But this thread is about Africa.
I'm talking about Africa.
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Old March 25, 2003, 02:11   #64
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de Villepin suggested the formation of a national government encompassing elements from the rebellion and from the regular government, and the whole population rejected it violently, accusing France of favoring the other side.
That sounds about right .

I fear for that continent. It is so rich, but there is so much fighting, especially on tribal bounds, many of which are in more than one state.
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Old March 25, 2003, 02:58   #65
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Ted Striker, I thought that these evil dirty commie hypocrit 'Eurocoms' do NOT include United Kingdom, the one which pillaged the most from Africa...

What about US actions in South America during 1960-1990?
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Old March 25, 2003, 03:00   #66
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Not to detract from the labors of the Puerto Rican people but that island's success is in no small measure a result of the benefits from being highly integrated with the US. If PR was truly independent, that would change. That's why the Puerto Ricans vote to keep the status quo vis a vis the US.
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Old March 25, 2003, 22:53   #67
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Originally posted by Tuomerehu
Ted Striker, I thought that these evil dirty commie hypocrit 'Eurocoms' do NOT include United Kingdom, the one which pillaged the most from Africa...

What about US actions in South America during 1960-1990?

Here is the deal.

UK is not CURRENTLY part of Old Europe.

But they still have a huge mess to clean up from the past. They were once Eurocoms but cleaned up their act and are now good.

Iran/Iraq was originally a UK mess.

But USA got involved. Now it is our mess to clean up. That's why we are cleaning it up now. Same thing with Israel. It was originally a UK created mess. But USA has been so involved that it is also our mess now. (Although Brits are in for the #1 assist in those situations).

HOWEVER, Africa is almost EXCLUSIVLEY a Eurocom mess to clean up. USA shouldn't have to clean up the mess there, it's not our responsibility.

Don't worry Viking Eurocom Tuomerehu your and your people don't have any obligation there either. But all the ones on that map I showed are.
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Old March 25, 2003, 22:58   #68
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Just put a mine underneath his motorcade and bring back Ian Smith.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:05   #69
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we gotta invade finland. We al know that Finns are evil.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:06   #70
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Gotta take back their lakes of mass destruction
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:15   #71
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Originally posted by Ted Striker

HOWEVER, Africa is almost EXCLUSIVLEY a Eurocom mess to clean up. USA shouldn't have to clean up the mess there, it's not our responsibility.
Is the C.I.A. a Eurocom front organisation then? Only, they were responsible for the coup that brought Mobutu to power, and for funding and arming UNITA rebels in Angola, and Renamo rebels in Mozambique.

I mention this only because Angola, Zaire and Mozambique could potentially have been three of the richest countries in Africa, given their reserves of minerals, precious metals, gems, oil and gas. Instead, thanks in large part to American help, they are some of the poorest countries in the world.

Your analysis of why Africa is in the state it's in, is so shallow, I almost split my sides laughing. No reference to desertification, no reference to the amount of arable land available, no reference to interference from the superpowers during the Cold War, no reference to endemic disease, no reference to tribalism, no reference to global economics, and domination by extra-African firms, just point to an antique map and say it's all your fault Europe, they were your colonies.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:28   #72
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it's all your fault Europe, they were your colonies.
Thanks for reiterating my point.

Nice excuses though.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:34   #73
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Originally posted by Ted Striker


Thanks for reiterating my point.

Nice excuses though.

Feeble beyond belief.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:42   #74
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I think Ted is merely trolling.
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Old March 25, 2003, 23:45   #75
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You're right Spiffor. I think his reasons are still bogus and actually symptoms, not causes, however it's more fun just to get a rise.

I have to say though that Spiffor you've been one of the most polite posters ever on Apolyton. (seriously) I wish we could all be so gracious and polite.
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Old March 26, 2003, 01:49   #76
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Sorry I don't have a source for it, it was just some little tidbit I'd heard. But if you want to refute it, feel free, but tell me what you think is true. It could be an outdated fact, or it could have never been true, but considering the wealth that flows to Puerto Rico from tourism and military bases, it seemed reasonable enough to me that I never bothered checking it.
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Old March 26, 2003, 01:51   #77
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Originally posted by molly bloom
Is the C.I.A. a Eurocom front organisation then? Only, they were responsible for the coup that brought Mobutu to power, and for funding and arming UNITA rebels in Angola, and Renamo rebels in Mozambique.

I mention this only because Angola, Zaire and Mozambique could potentially have been three of the richest countries in Africa, given their reserves of minerals, precious metals, gems, oil and gas. Instead, thanks in large part to American help, they are some of the poorest countries in the world.

Your analysis of why Africa is in the state it's in, is so shallow, I almost split my sides laughing. No reference to desertification, no reference to the amount of arable land available, no reference to interference from the superpowers during the Cold War, no reference to endemic disease, no reference to tribalism, no reference to global economics, and domination by extra-African firms, just point to an antique map and say it's all your fault Europe, they were your colonies.
It could also be that Belgium raped the **** out of the Congo, and Portugal wasn't the least bit interested in building up Angola or Mozambique prior to getting the hell out in the 1970's. France and Britain were reasonably decent colonial rulers, but the Belgians and Portuguese were simply atrocious. I think they may have been too small and poor to really invest heavily in their empires, and chose instead to just get as much money as they could.
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Old March 26, 2003, 01:56   #78
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Originally posted by molly bloom


Is the C.I.A. a Eurocom front organisation then? Only, they were responsible for the coup that brought Mobutu to power, and for funding and arming UNITA rebels in Angola, and Renamo rebels in Mozambique.
Renamo was built and fed by South Africa.
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Old March 26, 2003, 22:08   #79
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Renamo was built and fed by South Africa.
Are you being obtuse or naive?

"At the same time that it laid waste to Angola, the U.S. ensured a similar fate for adjoining Mozambique, which also emerged from Portuguese colonialism in 1975. Here, the U.S., again through South Africa, backed the Mozambican National Resistance (RENAMO), "an artificial armed engine of destruction," created by the Intelligence Service of racist Rhodesia. Even more vicious than UNITA, RENAMO committed massive atrocities against civilians and destroyed much of Mozambique's infrastructure in a 16-year-long civil war with the left-wing government of the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique (FRELIMO).
One million people were killed and five million displaced by the time the war ended in 1992.

In 1988, Roy Stacey, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, who was part of a group trying to end Washington's backing for RENAMO, stated that the insurgents were carrying out "one of the most brutal holocausts against ordinary human beings since World War II."

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/pub...rticle344.html

See how smuggling of ivory, rhino horn and diamonds, South Africa, Unita and Renamo supporters were linked with C.I.A. and U.S. based supporters:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1993/104/104p28.htm

Mozambique, a country on the Indian Ocean bordering South Africa, is one of the world's leading victims of terrorism. This nation of 14 million people is trying to resist brutal attack by the Mozambique National Resistance (RENAMO), a South African-armed and supported group. A U.S. State Department official called it "one of the most brutal holocausts against ordinary human beings since World War II."
The Mozambique government calls them "bandidos," but RENAMO, the 25,000-man army, says they are fighting to overthrow the predominantly black, socialist, one-party government in power. The atrocities are so horrible many cannot even be imagined. So far more than one million, mostly innocent men, women, and children have died as a result of this barbaric war. Many of the atrocities are committed against children. The numbers of girls raped is incredible; reports say girls as young as ten are being made sexual slaves for soldiers. There may be at least 100,000 children the RENAMO has trained and forced to kill. Children are kidnapped from their families and first trained to kill animals, then human beings. This process can begin at the age of eight. One out of every three Mozambique children will die before they reach the age of five.
Funding for RENAMO is believed to come from South African sources as well as conservative, right-wing groups in the United States and Europe. According to RENAMO watch groups, U.S. supporters of RENAMO include U.S. Representatives Dan Burton (R-Indiana) and Philip Crane (R-Illinois); Senators Bob Dole (R-Kansas), Bob Kasten (R-Wisconsin), and Jesse Helms (R-North Carolina); Jack Kemp, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and television evangelist Pat Robertson.

Still struggling to overcome the ravages of war, Mozambique is one of the poorest nations in the world. World Press Review (January 1996), in an explosive article confirming the RENAMO use of children as warriors, noted that the average Mozambican earned about $80 in 1994.

According to an article in The New York Times (5/1/88), "RENAMO has the backing of several members of Congress, including Senator Jesse Helms and Representative Jack Kemp, who last September sent a letter to RENAMO's leader that closed with 'best wishes for continued success."' Congressional support of the RENAMO was also later cited by National Catholic Reporter (12/10/93) which said Senator Bob Dole once referred to the RENAMO rebels as "freedom fighters."

Felch X- your analysis of the colonial regimes is a little short on detail. Specifically, the states the countries were in when Belgium and Portugal pulled out, and the states they are in now, and who helped get them there.
If they were so depleted in resources, why would the United States be interested in their oil, cobalt, uranium, manganese, and so on and so on?

However you are correct- the colonial regimes in Zaire, Angola and Mozambique were despotic, and the Portuguese did deliberately wreck Mozambique's infrastructure before leaving.

Nonetheless, do you think that a U.S. and South African backed civil war, funding and arming a loose collection of cutthroats and mass murderers who rape and impress
children as soldiers and deliberately maim peasants and destroy farms and hospitals helped improve matters?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CI...a_CIAHits.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CI...e_CIAHits.html

"A considerable proportion of the developed world's prosperity rests on paying the lowest possible prices for the poor countries' primary products and on exporting high-cost capital and finished goods to those countries. Continuation of this kind of prosperity requires continuation of the relative gap between developed and underdeveloped countries - it means keeping poor people poor.
Increasingly, the impoverished masses are understanding that the prosperity of the developed countries and of the privileged minorities in their own countries is founded on their poverty."

Philip Agee, CIA Diary
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Old March 26, 2003, 22:45   #80
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The ole "CIA screwed so-and-so third world country" theory sure is fun though, isn't it?
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Old March 26, 2003, 23:06   #81
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Originally posted by Ted Striker
The ole "CIA screwed so-and-so third world country" theory sure is fun though, isn't it?
Flippancy- the last resort of someone with nothing to contribute.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/angola/Angl998-03.htm

"U.S. covert assistance to UNITA had been prohibited by the U.S. Congress through the Clark Amendment in 1976, but was resumed after a repeal of the amendment in 1985. U.S. covert aid totaled about U.S.$250 million between 1986 and 1991, making it the second largest U.S. covert program, exceeded only by aid to the Afghan mujahedeen.

In 1987, a series of major battles in the south of Angola culminated in the siege of Cuito Cuanavale by South African and UNITA forces. Although this resulted in a military stalemate, the outcome was a psychological defeat for the South African Defence Forces (SADF), which came to believe they could not win militarily in Angola. This prompted a rethinking of South African military strategy.

Cuito Cuanavale also marked the beginning of new diplomatic efforts to end the conflict. In 1988, the Soviet Union signaled that it was no longer prepared to arm the MPLA indefinitely. In January 1989, President Dos Santos made an offer to UNITA leader Jonas Savimbi that led to a peace process brokered by eighteen African nations. At a meeting in Gbadolite, Zaire, in June 1989, Dos Santos and Savimbi shook hands and agreed on an immediate cease-fire. But it quickly collapsed, as a dispute developed over what their oral agreements had been, and especially over what Savimbi's future role would be.1

The following eighteen months saw the most sustained efforts to achieve a peaceful settlement, as well as some of the fiercest fighting of the entire war. Between April 1990 and May 1991 six rounds of peace talks took place between UNITA and the government. The negotiations were hosted by Portugal, with observers from the United States and the Soviet Union. These nations were subsequently called the observing Troika. In May 1991 the talks resulted in an agreement, known as the Bicesse Accords, which temporarily ended a conflict that had already killed between 100,000 and 350,000.2 The agreement was made possible partly by the ending of the Cold War, which facilitated U.S.-Soviet cooperation, and partly by the desire of the Soviet Union and Cuba to reduce their financial commitment to Angola."


"Other "freedom fighters" around the world treat civilians similarly. On February 8, 1986, several hundred of Jonas Savimbi's Angolan insurgents (who were supported by South Africa and the ClA as far back as the 1975 Angolan war') attacked Camabatela in northern Angola, killing 107 villagers, most of them civilians, including women and children. The insurgents routinely plant mines in farming areas to drive farmers off the land and reduce food production. Thousands of Angolan farmers have lost their legs from these mines.
The Mozambican "freedom fighters" of the Mozambique National Resistance (Renamo) are another example of the right wing's worldwide democratic revolution. While they have not received direct U.S. government support, South Africa has been the key source of their arms, ammunition, and supplies. Renamo's Washington office shared an address with the Heritage Foundation. Tactics used by Renamo have included murdering civilians, capturing peasants and cutting off their ears, burning clinics and schools, attacking medical teams carrying out vaccination campaigns, and employing terror to drive farmers from their land thereby creating food shortages. A UNICEF report concluded that Renamo violence was the main cause of the famine that has killed 100,000 Mozambicans since 1983. In the summer of 1987, Renamo carried out two massacres killing over 400 people. Like the Nicaraguan contras, Renamo kidnapped civilians as a recruitment device. Renamo demolished 718 clinics and attacked twelve CARE food deliveries. The viciousness and common banditry of Renamo prevented even conservatives such as Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan from supporting them. But right-wing pressure in 1987 brought Senate Minority Leader Robert Dole into the pro-Renamo camp."

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ro...WRollback.html

ECONOMICS

Mozambique’s prolonged and violent civil war destroyed much of the nation’s economic infrastructure. Today, it is one of the world’s poorest nations. Mozambique’s continuing chaos has prevented the nation from living up to the economic potential of its sizable natural resources. One of Mozambique’s few healthy industries is commercial fishing. Shrimp has become an important catch. Shrimp, prawns, and lobster make up almost 43 percent of total exports. Cashews, grown on plantations, are also a primary export product. Electricity is exported to South Africa. However, civil-war sabotage has hurt the Cabora Bassa Dam, one of the largest hydroelectric complexes in Africa, and the facility seldom operates to capacity. Foreign aid continues to account for almost 80 percent of the nation's gross national product (GNP). In 1995, the United Nations refugee agency helped to repatriate more than 1 million Mozambicans who had been displaced by the civil war.

"A UNICEF report concluded that Renamo violence was the main cause of the famine that has killed 100,000 Mozambicans since 1983. "

And this is somehow the fault of the Portuguese. Riiiight....
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Old March 26, 2003, 23:18   #82
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Originally posted by molly bloom


Are you being obtuse or naive?

"At the same time that it laid waste to Angola, the U.S. ensured a similar fate for adjoining Mozambique, which also emerged from Portuguese colonialism in 1975. Here, the U.S., again through South Africa, backed the Mozambican National Resistance (RENAMO), "an artificial armed engine of destruction," created by the Intelligence Service of racist Rhodesia. Even more vicious than UNITA, RENAMO committed massive atrocities against civilians and destroyed much of Mozambique's infrastructure in a 16-year-long civil war with the left-wing government of the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique (FRELIMO).
One million people were killed and five million displaced by the time the war ended in 1992.

In 1988, Roy Stacey, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, who was part of a group trying to end Washington's backing for RENAMO, stated that the insurgents were carrying out "one of the most brutal holocausts against ordinary human beings since World War II."

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/pub...rticle344.html

See how smuggling of ivory, rhino horn and diamonds, South Africa, Unita and Renamo supporters were linked with C.I.A. and U.S. based supporters:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1993/104/104p28.htm

Mozambique, a country on the Indian Ocean bordering South Africa, is one of the world's leading victims of terrorism. This nation of 14 million people is trying to resist brutal attack by the Mozambique National Resistance (RENAMO), a South African-armed and supported group. A U.S. State Department official called it "one of the most brutal holocausts against ordinary human beings since World War II."
The Mozambique government calls them "bandidos," but RENAMO, the 25,000-man army, says they are fighting to overthrow the predominantly black, socialist, one-party government in power. The atrocities are so horrible many cannot even be imagined. So far more than one million, mostly innocent men, women, and children have died as a result of this barbaric war. Many of the atrocities are committed against children. The numbers of girls raped is incredible; reports say girls as young as ten are being made sexual slaves for soldiers. There may be at least 100,000 children the RENAMO has trained and forced to kill. Children are kidnapped from their families and first trained to kill animals, then human beings. This process can begin at the age of eight. One out of every three Mozambique children will die before they reach the age of five.
Funding for RENAMO is believed to come from South African sources as well as conservative, right-wing groups in the United States and Europe. According to RENAMO watch groups, U.S. supporters of RENAMO include U.S. Representatives Dan Burton (R-Indiana) and Philip Crane (R-Illinois); Senators Bob Dole (R-Kansas), Bob Kasten (R-Wisconsin), and Jesse Helms (R-North Carolina); Jack Kemp, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and television evangelist Pat Robertson.

Still struggling to overcome the ravages of war, Mozambique is one of the poorest nations in the world. World Press Review (January 1996), in an explosive article confirming the RENAMO use of children as warriors, noted that the average Mozambican earned about $80 in 1994.

According to an article in The New York Times (5/1/88), "RENAMO has the backing of several members of Congress, including Senator Jesse Helms and Representative Jack Kemp, who last September sent a letter to RENAMO's leader that closed with 'best wishes for continued success."' Congressional support of the RENAMO was also later cited by National Catholic Reporter (12/10/93) which said Senator Bob Dole once referred to the RENAMO rebels as "freedom fighters."

Felch X- your analysis of the colonial regimes is a little short on detail. Specifically, the states the countries were in when Belgium and Portugal pulled out, and the states they are in now, and who helped get them there.
If they were so depleted in resources, why would the United States be interested in their oil, cobalt, uranium, manganese, and so on and so on?

However you are correct- the colonial regimes in Zaire, Angola and Mozambique were despotic, and the Portuguese did deliberately wreck Mozambique's infrastructure before leaving.

Nonetheless, do you think that a U.S. and South African backed civil war, funding and arming a loose collection of cutthroats and mass murderers who rape and impress
children as soldiers and deliberately maim peasants and destroy farms and hospitals helped improve matters?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CI...a_CIAHits.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CI...e_CIAHits.html

"A considerable proportion of the developed world's prosperity rests on paying the lowest possible prices for the poor countries' primary products and on exporting high-cost capital and finished goods to those countries. Continuation of this kind of prosperity requires continuation of the relative gap between developed and underdeveloped countries - it means keeping poor people poor.
Increasingly, the impoverished masses are understanding that the prosperity of the developed countries and of the privileged minorities in their own countries is founded on their poverty."

Philip Agee, CIA Diary
You would think that this much material would refute my contention, but it doesn't really. RENAMO was South Africa's baby from the time Rhodesia kicked the bucket, and they grew it into a monster that managed to survive even the end of Apartheid for some little while. While the U.S. may have tacitly approved of keeping the communists busy, this operation had very little input or assistance from Washington. There was no relationship between RENAMO and Washington that wasn't dwarfed by and subordinate to RENAMO's relationship with South Africa. You can bury the forum in The Nation (the sound of left wing flapping) articles until the cows come home, and it won't change the facts.
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Old March 26, 2003, 23:20   #83
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Originally posted by molly bloom


And this is somehow the fault of the Portuguese. Riiiight....

When you put two angry dogs in a cage and then leave the room what else do you expect?

By the way your posts are heavy on volume but they don't really say that much.
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Old March 27, 2003, 00:16   #84
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When you put two angry dogs in a cage and then leave the room what else do you expect?

By the way your posts are heavy on volume but they don't really say that much.
As opposed to your posts, Ted, which are low on volume(=fact) and long on assertion.

Clearly you missed the bit that said Renamo was a creation of white controlled Rhodesia, and not an indigenous Mozambican creation. What party goes about destroying its own country's infrastructure? Goes about maiming and killing subsistence farming peasants?
Destroys hospitals, health clinics and kills health workers and interrupts vaccination programmes?
The kind of party that is supported by outside interests (apartheid era South Africa, Ian Smith's Rhodesia, and the United States). The kind of force that was Unita in Angola, also supported by the United States and South Africa.

So Sikander- you admit Renamo was a Rhodesian not a South African creation. Thanks.

However much Washington may not have 'directly' supported Renamo, as in openly supplying the 'brave freedom fighters', covert support was channeled through South Africa, and willing right wing politicians in Washington. Plausible deniability- after all who would want to hold up their hand in support of the kind of atrocities committed by Renamo? Apart from Kemp, Dole and Kirkpatrick, of course.

'RENAMO's campaign against civilians was documented by a U.S. Department of State commissioned report which led to a significant decrease in U.S. support for the RENAMO movement, which had received some U.S. support by portraying itself as an anti-Marxist movement.

See Robert Gersony, Summary of Mozambican Refugee Accounts of Principally Conflict-Related Experience in Mozambique: Report Submitted to Ambassador Moore and Dr. Chester A. Crocker (Washington: Department of State Bureau for Refugee Programs, 1988).

While the Gersony report focused exclusively on RENAMO abuses, all parties to the conflict in Mozambique committed serious human rights abuses, as documented in the reports of Human Rights Watch and other human rights organizations. '

http://www.hrw.org/reports98/sareport/Adv2c.htm

You notice the phrase 'significant decrease in U.S. support' Sikander. I said that the C.I.A funded and armed Renamo- not that Renamo was a creation of the C.I.A. I did not raise the question of degrees of support from South Africa and the United States. Given that South Africa borders Mozambique, I think it would not take a genius to discern who would be able to supply most support in terms of bases, supplies, training and so forth.

The Reagan government supported apartheid South Africa; South Africa supported Renamo. Don't pretend there was no American input.

'…this report provides factual evidence of what so many of us knew in our hearts …that Renamo has been waging a systematic and brutal war of terror against innocent Mozambican civilians through forced labor, starvation, physical abuse and wanton killing... What emerged in Mozambique is one of the most brutal holocausts against ordinary human beings since World War II and the supporters of Renamo, wherever they may be, cannot wash the blood from their hands unless all support for this unconscionable violence is stopped.’

Roy Stacey, US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs, speaking at the Maputo donors’ conference, April 1988.

Was Stacey a eurocommie stooge too?
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Old March 27, 2003, 00:48   #85
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Clearly you missed the bit that said Renamo was a creation of white controlled Rhodesia, and not an indigenous Mozambican creation.
Thanks for reiterating my point again for me.

No doubt you are aware that Rhodesia is one of the most dispicable examples of European colonialism.
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Old March 27, 2003, 01:11   #86
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The Enduring Impact of Imperialism and Colonialism on Africaby Adib Rashad Imperialism and colonialism have, in many respects, distorted and abrogated the essence of African cultural norms and institutions. The systematic approach that the European invaders utilized to usurp land in Africa has contributed greatly to the disunity and dysfunction of indigenous Africans; coups take place in Africa not because Africans cannot govern themselves, but because African leaders have inherited a colonial legacy that tends to pit African against African, or brother against brother. This schism can be traced directly to the different types of colonial masters that held sway on the continent. Each colonized African, for the most part, took on the psycho-social and cultural milieu of his colonizer. Each colonial power pursued a cultural policy, that it believed would give it efficacious results, and a policy that was in tune with his philosophy of colonial administration.Most of the problems that haunt Africa had their origins in a diplomatic, agreed upon meeting known as the Berlin Conference in which fourteen western nations attended the three-month session. It was a chaotic, and haphazard process that threatened on several occasions to plunge the Europeans into war. German chancellor Otto Von Bismarck, who at one time had no interest in African colonies, wanted to ensure Germany a piece of the spoils; he decided it was time to lay down some ground rules. His French and British counterparts, who were his main competitors in Africa, unanimously agreed with the rules that would eventually despoil most of the African continent.Another reason for Bismarck's decision might have been the pressure of commercial interests involved in Africa and the political arguments of the colonial nations convinced him that colonies were indeed an economic necessity to Germany.Thus the ascension of the colonialism/imperialism ideology was based on the belief that colonies were an essential attribute of any great nation. Whether the reason was economic, political, or diplomatic the quest for overseas possessions was of paramount concern for European nations. Another important aspect of colonialism is that immediately following the abolition of the slave trade, the desire and quest for more scientific knowledge about Africa intensified. Thus more explorations took place, and these events took on a new meaning. In the decade preceding the Berlin Conference of 1884-5,African Associations emerged all over Europe. Besides the ones that existed in England and France, there were the German Association for the Exploration of Africa, the Italian Association for the Exploration and Civilization of Africa, King Leopold's (Belgium) International African Association, the Hungarian African Association, the Swiss Committee for the Exploration of Central Africa, and the African Association of Rotterdam. The interest in scientific knowledge started to decline as each nation sought to establish its colonial dominance over occupied and unoccupied lands in Africa; hence, the Berlin Conference was(is) considered to be the crux of European colonialism.Europeans needed to satisfy the material necessities of Europe; therefore, the dream of an African empire developed as an avenue for the investment of surplus capital, and as a boost to national prestige. In essence, the Berlin Conference was very important in African history because of the way it sought to minimize competition among the European colonial powers in their haste to acquire mineral rich lands in Africa.British historian, Basil Davidson, stated with candor, The Europeans came and assumed command of African history, and the solutions they found were solutions for themselves, not for Africans. The Africa of a century ago consisted of a large number number of independent states. Some of these states were large and powerful; others were smaller and weaker. When the Europeans finished drawing their lines of partition, these states had been condensed into about 50 pieces of territory all of which came under European colonial rule. The systematic, indiscriminate partition (scramble) brought different ethnic groups (tribes) under one or more colonial power. This situation disrupted the political development of these social groups; furthermore, ethnic groups were cleaved into fragments. For example, Nigeria under colonial rule brought more than a hundred ethnic groups into the colonial sphere. This colonial sphere included the theocracies of Northern Nigeria, the Chiefdoms of the Yoruba, Edo, and Itskiri, in the South, and the Ibo and Ibibio, in the East. In the then Tanganyika (Tanzania), former President Jules Nyerere demonstrated that the territory under German, and later British rule consisted of more than a hundred ethnic groups. The atomization of one or more ethnic groups among two or more colonial powers created a situation very akin to slavery. Families were forcibly separated into two or more groups; each group under a colonial power spoke a different European language. Obviously, this kind of situation laid the foundation for present ethnic (tribal) disputes, or at least contributed to the problem.Furthermore, Africa had become so atomized into smaller, conflicting groups that people readily identified themselves by tribe, ideology, profession, religion, and economic class, as does most victims of European colonialism, racism, and slavery.As a consequence of this ethnic fragmentation, groups such as the Hausas and Fulanis exist in British, Nigeria, German, later French/British Cameroons, French, Niger and Chad. The Arabs of North Africa were(are) scattered in French, Spanish and Italian colonies. The Mandingo were(are) in French and British colonies such as Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast, Gambia and Sierra Leone. There were(are) the Fang in different French colonies in Equatorial Africa, the Mende in Liberia and Sierra Leone, and the Ewe in British Gold Coast (Ghana), French Fogoland, and Dahomey.What is important to note is that King Leopold of Belgium initiated the partitioning process by hiring the explorer Henry Stanley to acquire territory in the rich Congo basin. In 1879-80 Stanley gained the title to over nine hundred thousand square miles (over seventy-six times the entire area of Belgium) from local chiefs who could not comprehend the true meaning of the scraps of paper they were signing in return for worthless items such as cases of rum and gin, and brightly colored clothes, and trinkets. The notion or reality of selling the title to tribal lands would be as ludicrous to these chiefs as it would be for an American governor to sell the title to his house, or state. Yet this was the case all over Africa. Not only did Stanley do it for Belgium, but it was also done by Count DeBrazza for France (north of the Congo), by Dr. Karl Peters for Germany (East Africa), and by other adventurers in the service of other colonial powers.It is quite apparent that the overall effect of colonialism on Africa was(is) immensely deleterious. The European powers desired and needed slaves, ivory, ports, raw materials, new markets for European finished products, and equally important, as in the case of Portugal and Kenya, a dumping ground for some of its semiliterate and unskilled citizens.To abate the drain on treasuries in Europe, the colonialists introduced cash-crop economies: cocoa was planted in Ghana, peanuts in Senegal and Gambia, tobacco in Malawi, coffee and tea in Kenya, cotton in Angola.... These were export crops and they subjected Africa to total dependence on Europe. Thus Africa was cast into independence without an industrial base. Each African economy was based on one-crop harvests that were irrelevant to Africa and were subjected to wild price fluctuations on the world market.The above points demand elaboration simply because they address an obviously fragile subject, and that is economic stagnation in Africa. The colonial rulers encouraged the production of only a few materials in each colony at the expense of stimulating the growth of diverse industries and crops needed to sustain Europe.The colonial rulers employed a very pragmatic program. It essentially followed this line of logic: once each colony was a part of a European nation, why should each colony be self-sufficient? If Senegal was the best peanut producer in French Africa, or if cotton from the Sudan was the most useful export as far as the British were concerned, then Senegal would grow peanuts and the Sudan cotton.The result of pushing the best crop at the expense of all the rest was to make each colony totally dependent on the world price of its single export. Thus if the world supply of copper were to double because of new deposits in Brazil or Chile; the boom in Katanga and Zambia would quickly come to an end. Similarly, the prosperity or poverty of Ghanaian farmers depended directly on the price of cocoa on the world market.The other type of subjugation that emerged in Africa which was in effect, an economic extension of colonialism was settlerism. It has been established by a number of historians and political theorists that white settlers in Africa, or in other areas for that matter, took land for themselves, and in the process exacted political control over its indigenous inhabitants. Settler communities ignored and opposed all pleas for African education, promotion of Africans to responsible jobs, or the exercise of political rights such as the freedom to express political ideas or form political organizations. However only in South Africa, Israel, Australia, and North America where the logic of settler dominance was extended to its extreme in the racist doctrine of apartheid, do the settlers still rule directly and indirectly.The first settlers in the era of European colonial expansion were the Dutch and the British at the Cape. In 1652 colonialist from Holland, France and Britain came in small, but steady numbers to the southern tip of Africa. In 1840 several thousand Frenchmen settled in Algeria. By 1900 more than half a million had arrived and occupied more of the narrow belt of fertile land along the coast.In other parts of Africa, settlers came later and in smaller numbers. Until the late nineteenth century the Hinterland of the two former Portuguese colonies, Angola and Mozambique were ruled by settlers who held large tracts of lands. However, it was not until the establishment of companies, and the coming of soldiers did Portugal completely subdue the Africans and entrench their settlement. In fact, this scenario held true for all of the colonial settler communities.The indigenous population was displaced, forced to work for meager wages, and forced to pay taxes imposed by the colonial authorities.East Indians and Arabs(Usually Lebanese) were the non-European immigrants in East and West Africa and in the Natal province of South Africa.They came as indentured laborers on the Uganda railroad and the sugar plantations of Natal, or as trading agents for the East India Company. The Arabs came as merchants and traders. Both groups gained control over local commerce in the respective areas in which they settled. In other words, they dominated the export trade of East, West, and Southern Africa.*=====Adib Rashad is an education consultant, educationprogram director, author, and historian. He has lived and taught inWest Africa and South East Asia.
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Old March 27, 2003, 01:38   #87
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Ted:

wasn't the US a result of european colonialism? I think, if you look up a map of the Americans circa 1770, you will see lots of Europen colonies as well...

Colonialism left many problems, but they are not the sole reason for Afrca's sad shape today. How, for example, would you explain what happened to places like Zimbabwe...10 years ago, everyone would point to it as an african success story, and now.... or Ivory Coast, another African success story currently in trouble.

Not to say that it is all the CIA's fault, but to state the rather obvious: the current situatiopn is the result of multiple, complex issues working in tandem. Any attempt to shrink the issue to empty slogans is absurd.

As for Zimbabwe: it would be best for the issue to be taken care of by reponsible fellow african states, though that won't happen unless Mugabe pulled an Idi Amin act, which he won't.
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Old March 27, 2003, 02:20   #88
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wasn't the US a result of european colonialism?
Somewhat different case. The US was never saddled with many ethnic groups, some that didn't get along with each other, sharing the same borders.
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Old March 27, 2003, 02:53   #89
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You need to go back to school.
Thanks- you're the one that needs to read more, and more widely.

'Piero Gleijeses, a history professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, who used the Freedom of Information Act to uncover the documents, said: "When the United States decided to launch the covert intervention, in June and July, not only were there no Cubans in Angola, but the US government and the CIA were not even thinking about any Cuban presence in Angola.

"If you look at the CIA reports which were done at the time, the Cubans were totally out of the picture. [But in reports presented to the Senate in December 1975] what you find is really nothing less than the rewriting of history."

The American effort failed to keep Marxists from taking power but ushered in a long civil war, involving US, Chinese and Soviet interests and Cuban and South African soldiers. Washington eventually backed the rebel leader Jonas Savimbi, who was killed in Angola this year on 22 February.

Dr Gleijeses' research – for his recently published history of the conflict – documents co-ordination between America and South Africa on training missions and airlifts, and bluntly contradicts congressional testimony of the era and Dr Kissinger's memoirs.

The research has led to fresh criticism of Dr Kissinger. Nathaniel Davis, who resigned as his assistant secretary of state for African affairs in July 1975 over the Angola intervention, said: "Considering that things came to a head over covert action in the US government in mid-July, there is no reason to believe we were responding to Cuban involvement in Angola."


Robert Hultslander, who served as CIA station chief in Angola from August to November 1975, said: "It was our policies which caused the destabilisation. Kissinger was determined to challenge the Soviet Union, although no vital US interests were at stake." '

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=281741
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Old March 27, 2003, 02:56   #90
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So Sikander- you admit Renamo was a Rhodesian not a South African creation. Thanks.
And Hitler didn't found the NAZI party either, but instead grew it, gave it shape and directed it as it went on to become one of the most inhumane organizations the world has ever seen.

Rhodesia was the birth mother, but South Africa raised RENAMO, made it much much larger, and directed 98% of the actions that your sources decry at great length. None of these things would have happened without South Africa. When it was clear that the end of Rhodesia was near the Rhodesians handed RENAMO over to South Africa. The organization couldn't survive on its own, it existed mainly as a strike force to take the war deep into Mozambique rather than letting the guerillas mass on the border of Rhodesia. The South Africans reorganized it. The viciousness that RENAMO employed in its operations (not at all unlike other groups in many parts of Africa) was by design of the South African Intelligence service as the group morphed into a client of SA. They were very proud of their creation and the way it paralyzed their enemies in Mozambique.

My first knowledge of the group (aside from tiny stories in the mainstream press) came from Soldier of Fortune magazine in the early 1980s where the history of the group was outlined by ex-Rhodesians and South Africans. While the attrocities committed by RENAMO were obviously glossed over, the interesting thing to me was how much control the South Africans had over the group. It was considerable. Operations were planned and quite publicly run directly by South Africans from base camps and helicopters. No one was on a hotline to Washington, which quite frankly didn't care very much about this corner of the world, save that its supplies of strategic metals etc. from South Africa remained unharmed by Soviet clients in neighboring states.

Washington did not create the group, nor did they raise it into a terrorist organization, nor did they direct it. They may have given it some small amount of aid, and they did give it a small amount of political cover during the height of the Cold War. AFAIK the U.S. never supplied arms to RENAMO (there are plenty of pictures of these guys around, and I have never seen them with any other than South Africa / Rhodesian kit or captured Soviet stuff.

I think this is as close to agreement as you and I are going to get on this issue.
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