March 25, 2003, 17:47
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#31
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:32
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My best guess is that the original members of the ECSC constitue "Old Europe": France, Germany, Italy, and Benelux.
Regardless, Rumsfeld is an idiot. I am far to the right of American Politics and think that he is terrible for the country. I especially hate how he simply dismisses the German Heritage of a huge population of the U.S. (between 25%-33%), and the crucial role that France palyed in our independence. America is the extenion of "Old Europe". Its heritage is our heritage, and I am appalled by how easily most Americans forget that.
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"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796
Last edited by nationalist; March 25, 2003 at 17:57.
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March 25, 2003, 17:49
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#32
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Warlord
Local Time: 17:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 221
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Maniac
Didn't Spain support the American independence as well??
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Yes. I think Spain joined the Franco-American alliance in 1780. Not entirely sureabout the date though.
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"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796
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March 25, 2003, 17:50
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#33
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King
Local Time: 17:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
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Quote:
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Originally posted by nationalist
My best guess is that the original members of the ECSC: France, Germany, Italy, and Benelux.
Regardless, Rumsfeld is an idiot. I am far to the right of American Politics and think that he is terrible for the country. I especially hate how he simply dismisses the German Heritage of a huge population of the U.S. (between 25%-33%), and the crucial role that France palyed in our independence. America is the extenion of "Old Europe". Its heritage is our heritage, and I am appalled by how easily most Americans forget that.
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http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
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March 25, 2003, 22:47
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#34
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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Old Europe = Eurocoms
Primary led by France and recenlty joined by Germany. Bolstered by support from Benelux, Switzerland, and Austria.
Spain, Italy, and UK and not part of Eurocomland.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:11
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Posts: 8,349
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Little something I whipped up...
[IMG]C:\WINDOWS\desktop\Jason\busheurope.jpg[/IMG]
Hope that fixed it.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
Last edited by Guynemer; March 26, 2003 at 00:29.
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March 26, 2003, 00:12
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#36
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Posts: 8,349
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Doh! For some reason, "$*#@ing Poly" got erased... supposed to be on Greece...
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 26, 2003, 00:13
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#37
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:32
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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damn
I was anxiously awaiting.
Can you get it back?
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:15
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#38
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
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Join Date: Mar 1999
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Posts: 8,349
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You mocking me, Striker?
You're not above being replaced with a blow-up balloon pilot, you know.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 26, 2003, 00:21
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#39
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:32
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Nah I was with you dog. I wanted to see it.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:27
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#40
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:32
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Put it back dog!!! 
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:30
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#41
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
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There ya go, dog. Can I get a pimpin' smiley for my pains?
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 26, 2003, 00:32
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#42
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:32
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I can't see it. 
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:33
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#43
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Emperor
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You still the man though.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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March 26, 2003, 00:37
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#44
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ted Striker
I can't see it.
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Huh? It's right there, just to the SW of Greece... should be on the old map now, I can see it.
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Quote:
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You still the man though.
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Damn right.
[IMG]C:\WINDOWS\desktop\Jason\pimp.gif[/IMG]
Solid.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 26, 2003, 07:12
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#45
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Deity
Local Time: 06:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Not a thing. Did you mess up again?
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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March 26, 2003, 07:29
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#46
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: A real Master of CTP-PBEM - together with all the others.....
Posts: 6,303
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Monk
While we're at it, does anybody know why the Danish government would send a submarine to assist the coalition in a campaign of desert warfare? It's a serious question.
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No replies are also a kind of answer.......... 
__________________
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Gandhi
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March 26, 2003, 07:32
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#47
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King
Local Time: 00:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 1,221
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Re: Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Monk
Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either?
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Spain is something in the middle. The government (and the people who vote it) is clearly New Europe, but the oposition and the people who destroys our streets in the name of "peace" is Old Europe. Very Old Europe in fact. They still live in 1936. They still believe that the USSR will "save" them (someone please! tell them that the USSR doesn't exists yet!) I hope that New Europe continues to govern in Spain, because things go much more better since then.
__________________
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)
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March 26, 2003, 07:44
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#48
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King
Local Time: 00:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Didn't the Spaniards send (among other forces) a submarine too to retake that rock near the Moroccan coast (forgot the name), captured by no less than 12 soldiers?
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No, we didn't send a submarine. And by the way, the Perejil Island is ours.
__________________
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)
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March 26, 2003, 07:47
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#49
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King
Local Time: 00:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Spiffor
I didn't know they sent a submarine for Persil Island. I thought they only thumped their chest.
What does the Spanish army look like ? I heard it sucks, but it is pure hearsay, and I have no reliable info on it...
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The Spanish Army is OK but too small 
I suppose that we can thank the military budget cuts for it 
__________________
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)
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March 26, 2003, 07:52
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#50
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King
Local Time: 00:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Posts: 2,647
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Quote:
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Bolstered by support from Benelux, Switzerland, and Austria.
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It's Belgium, not Benelux, last thing I heard was that the Netherlands are a bit in favour of the war, nio?
__________________
"An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
"Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca
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March 26, 2003, 08:00
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#51
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:32
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Up to this war, I believed "Old Europe" was all nations, that had existed for sereval hundred years under the same name.........
Exactly where in the timeline to  "drawn a line in the sand" - I can't tell.
__________________
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Gandhi
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March 26, 2003, 08:46
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#52
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 23:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by OliverFA
And by the way, the Perejil Island is ours.
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That's why I said "retake". Leila island, Ceuta and Melilla are still Spanish, just like Gibraltar is British.
Concerning the sub, a quick web search didn't bring any evidence indeed, so I'm inclined to believe that I didn't remember it correct. Anyway, it was an incident ways too small to be bothered.
Still, the Spanish used overwhelming force. BBC writes of no less than five warships to expel a couple of soldiers, while an African site provides some photos of the Spanish hardware and soldiers, among them this hottie.
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March 26, 2003, 10:35
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#53
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Deity
Local Time: 00:32
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
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Now that's an occupying force I could live with  
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Old europe, new europe...it's europe !!!!
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
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March 26, 2003, 10:58
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#54
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Aachen, Germany, Old Europe, Axis of Evil
Posts: 182
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Oh, I  women in uniform!
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March 26, 2003, 11:33
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#55
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: USA
Posts: 3,197
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Re: Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Monk
Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?
Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.
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In his novel "Brave New World" Huxley refers to the European region as old and tired. Perhaps this is what Rumsfiled is referring to. Any day now you can expect the American "New World Order" to divide up the world into regions to be governed by appointed directors.
Do your girls have their Malthusian belts yet?
Are you an alpha or a beta? I don't think there would be any reason to allow the others to use the internet, do you?
__________________
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
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March 26, 2003, 11:42
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#56
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:32
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Criminy, it's right there... don't understand why I can see it, but others can't... try this (with a few more updates):
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 26, 2003, 11:50
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#57
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:32
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: A real Master of CTP-PBEM - together with all the others.....
Posts: 6,303
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Is that the map they use in american schools when teaching young students where their european great-great-great............... grandpa or grandma came from ?
__________________
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Gandhi
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March 26, 2003, 16:23
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#58
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King
Local Time: 00:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
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Originally posted by OliverFA
some photos of the Spanish hardware and soldiers, among them this hottie.
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Thanks for the picture Sir Ralph That's very kind of you!
__________________
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)
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