Reasons for Anti-Americanism in Old Europe

[Worthingtons]

We all the Middle East hates america, and while most of it comes down the fact they are poor and America is rich, it can also be said they do have a fair few valid moans at America, or perhaps more so it's foriegn policy. However, surely Americans should be asking themselves why Europeans hate them so much?

France and Germany seem to hate America, the people this is , not just the politicians. America has helped save both countries from a tyrant several decades ago, and has contributed much in trade too, yet they are hated. The only reason i can think of for old europe's hatred is pure jealousy, the land of the free has advanced far past France, and even germany in the last century. Perhaps tho it could even be resentment, France lost face in WW2 when they had to be saved by England and the good American's, and Germany we're eventually humiliated as a Nation.

So, old Europeans, do you have any real reasons why you and you're fellow citizens should hate the great US?!? , I for one, would like to be enlightened.

[Boris Godunov]

Where on Earth do you get the idea that Germans, as a people, tend to hate America, as a people? I have never heard of such a thing. Every German I've ever met has been extremely friendly towards Americans, and all of the Germans on this board (as well as French) don't express contempt for American people at all.

Remember that disagreeing with our policies doesn't equate to hatred for our people.

I'd wager you will find far more affection amongst Germans for Americans than you will find affection for the Germans amongst Americans.

[Worthingtons]

There's plenty of Germans who are considerable Anti-american. I live with a French with a German unfortunatly, they both hate America (and Britain too even tho they do study here). The French guy was pleased after september 11 (a sickening opinion) , but the reasons he gave for his anti-americanism were things like 'America keeps interfearing with everyone's business - they getting what's coming to them' , however the definition of everyone happened to be limited to the Middle East to which he had no connections. puzzling.

[Urban Ranger]

I agree with Boris. Most people who are anti-US are against the government and/or its policies, not against the US people.

[notyoueither]

It is interesting. especially interesting when you throw in the opinions of some more radical Americans who hate their own government at least as vehemently as vehement non Americans.

I'm not sure where it comes from, even after discussing and arguing for some time. I am familiar with what they site, just not why they see the world tilted so far that way. I do think (or hope) that in Europe and the US those views are outside of the mainstream. At least that is the case in Canada, I believe.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Rothy
The French guy was pleased after september 11 (a sickening opinion) , but the reasons he gave for his anti-americanism were things like 'America keeps interfearing with everyone's business - they getting what's coming to them' , however the definition of everyone happened to be limited to the Middle East to which he had no connections. puzzling.

When the former subjects of the French Empire start crashing jets into French landmarks, remember to shove his words back down his throat.

Even today French forces are in Côte d'Ivoire (sp?), and by all accounts they aren't welcomed by either side in the conflict.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm not sure where it comes from, even after discussing and arguing for some time.

I always thought it was a result of studipidity, but I could be wrong.

[HershOstropoler]

Very few people here hate "America".

Many, including me, and including many Americans, hate the right wing extremists that have now gained a very strong influence in US politics.

If it's jelousy, I always wonder what I'm supposed to be jealous about.

[notyoueither]

Power?

[notyoueither]

Just guessing.

[HershOstropoler]

Which power?

[Harovan]

Hatred to Bush and his clique of ultra right wing *******s and murderers? Hell yes!

Hatred to Americans as a people? Hell no! I have a lot of friends among them, among both supporters and opposers of the current slaughter in Iraq. And I can perfectly talk with both, if it doesn't come to foreign policy, which subject I, of course, avoid. If you asked me 2 years ago, I was a strong supporter of the United States. The Bush regime succeeded to kill this sympathy and generate a feeling of opposition in just 2 years.

And notyoueither: If we were jealous of American power, how comes we don't strive to get par and limit ourselves to self defense (which is, of course, a lot cheaper too)?

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Rothy
..., but the reasons he gave for his anti-americanism were things like 'America keeps interfearing with everyone's business - they getting what's coming to them' , ...

In the last century America learned the hard way what happens when they don't "interfere" in other peoples business. They learned that nobody else will and that eventually they have to clean things up. Why not stop things before they get out of hand?

[Kropotkin]

The americos missunderstands this in the same way as they missunderstand the muslim world: They don't hate americans. they hate the politics of the american government. Is that so hard to understand?

[HershOstropoler]

"In the last century America learned the hard way what happens when they don't "interfere" in other peoples business."

And they should also have learned what happens when you interfere and **** up.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
And they should also have learned what happens when you interfere and **** up.

In which case I guess the question becomes whether tis better to have interfered and ****ed up than to have never interfered at all.

[Drake Tungsten]

Hatred to Bush and his clique of ultra right wing *******s and murderers? Hell yes!

I told you it was stupidity...

[Harovan]

I must have hit your wound spot, Drake. I'm terribly sorry!

[Wernazuma III]

Rothy seems to confuse the anger against Bush's right wing loony government with a general hate of whole European peoples against Americans. It doesn't exist!
Not that there are no people with anti-american sentiments. Surely there are people who aren't capable to differentiate between their disgust against Bush or the Iraq war and Americans as a people, but they're few. You cannot just throw all (continental) European people into one "anti-american" boat just because pretty everyone here is angered about what the US-government is currently doing.
Most people here for example understood why the US had attacked Afghanistan and, as someone already pointed out, Germans have still very positive feelings towards America - though surely the current government doesn't make this rise...

And finally, such idiot stereotyping like Anti-Americanism is, seems to get stronger in many parts of the world.
-A russian restaurant not serving British and Americans
-A Danish pizza-chain not serving French and Germans
-US congress cantine serving Freedom Fries, because everything "French" would be unpatriotic...
-A French Cola-producer selling "Mecca-Cola" with undoubtedly Anti-American slogans

People everywhere should learn to differentiate.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
And finally, such idiot stereotyping like Anti-Americanism is, seems to get stronger in many parts of the world.
-A russian restaurant not serving British and Americans
-A Danish pizza-chain not serving French and Germans
-US congress cantine serving Freedom Fries, because everything "French" would be unpatriotic...
-A French Cola-producer selling "Mecca-Cola" with undoubtedly Anti-American slogans

This sounds somehow like "Morons of all countries, unite!"

[TheStinger]

Within the UK , there is a very strong dilike of US by the left. They don't like the fact that the US capatlist economy havs done better than very single socilaist one.

They don't like the interventions of the US in asia and africa during the cold war. The left in the UK have never been strong on giving people indvidual freedom so that doesn't help much either.

the rest of the counry don't hate the US, they laugh at their loud brasness and the we're the best country that has ever existed guff. There is also still an element of disbeleif at how GW ever got to be president but as we have a half german woman as our head of satte who are we to comment

[Sloth]

I agree with the ideas expressed by other "stupid" europeans, but I would add one thing....

In the current debate, at least here in Italy, no one seem to be pro-war. We have two camps: the pro-pace and the pro-America.
If you are against the war you hang the raimbow flag out of the window. If you are pro-war you hang...the American flag!!! A symbol that in my opinion should represent all Americans, not just the ones in favor of this war.
So: none here is against the PEOPLE of America.
But if you are talking about America as concept, as a "flag", well is another matter.... but again this a natural consequence. If pro-war= pro-america then anti-war = ???

[MikeH]

One problem I have observed is that as a terrible generalisation a fair proportion of Americans seem to associate themselves as part of America the concept and America the flag which we don't tend to do so much in Europe. In fact it's very uncool to be proud to be British or wave the flag in the UK. You'd probably be sneered at.

So when we as Europeans attack "America", meaning the current government of the US's policies, it is sometime percieved across the cultural divide as an attack on the American ideals, principles and culture which most Americans are very supportive of, even if they don't agree with their government or even think their government necessarily represents those concepts.

We don't have such a strong national identity in the UK. We don't have a bill of rights or a constitution that defines what Britishness is for instance.

[Sloth]

Originally posted by MikeH
We don't have such a strong national identity in the UK.

We may have a curious thing here....

I would have said "We don't have such a strong national identity in Italy". Unlike the British that obviously do.

[MikeH]

Well.. I guess that explains some of the problems. If the rest of Europe sees us as having a strong national identity and we think that the US does then the gap between Europe and the US must be enormous.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Sloth
Unlike the British that obviously do.

You shouldn't generalize like this. A lot of Britons are real internationalists. In fact, the nationalists among them are the minority. Generalizing means over-simplifying and leads to nonsense like "Who's not with us, is against us".

[Sloth]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


You shouldn't generalize like this. A lot of Britons are real internationalists.

Of course!! I have many British friends that are internationalists. But here we are talking about the perception that other countries have of your own "national identity". ( A "cultural trait" so...a generalisation").

[MikeH]

True, there is a significant minority of crazy Nationalist Brits. They tend to be relatively old and rich though.

[TheStinger]

I would say we are internationalsits in terms of free trade and co-operation. However the British in general think European Union is a corrupt over bureacratic monster that does not care about Britain. This may be unfair but that is the perception. Even the pro-europeans would like to reform Brussels to a far graeter extent then the freench or Germans. This leads to the accusation that being anti european union is nationalistic which is wrong

[BlackStone]

Bod why are you calling yourself Rothy now? have you been a bad boy again?