how stardock figths warez

[child of Thor]

Piracy is a big problem, partly created by the industry itself.
By producing lame expensive products for the sake of making a quick buck, and not looking at the longterm situation,it(the game industry) must hopefully realise it has been part of the problem. It has been the emerging pattern since the 80's.
As a case in point over the last 5years or so i buy maybe two titles a year maximum now.
In the 80's i used to buy 5-10 depending on my pocket money situation. This has declined i feel in relation to the quality of the finished product. I'm not talking about graphics and sound here ok? I'm talking about playability and value for money,IMHO the most important elements of what makes a game good.

Then on the other hand you will always have guys who want to crack games - prove themselves to their contempories etc, and the guys who want stuff for free if they can get it.
My feeling is that with all the online warez sites it is much easier for the average punter to get a free game than it used to be. This has got to be very worring to an industry that spends millions to produce a game where it used to cost thousands. And to compound it all the industrty attitude hasn't helped them win over warez users by making them feel they are getting good value.
I think it is a much more critical situation than it was 10 years or so ago - the overheads and costs involved are just so much higher now, as is maybe the chance of the released game doing badly?

I think much more should be done in closeing down these sites - they are obviously being used primeraly for illegal activities. As more people become conected to the internet this problem can only get worse.
So on the whole i could put up with having to download content periodicaly to keep my games running, i think most of us are used to patching our games, so this isn't so different.
Will it actually work enough to make it worth it? I guess we will have to see how it goes for Galciv - I hope it does work well, it would be a shame to see video-gaming come to an end before it really had a chance to bring the kind of entertainment it promises to our homes.
At the end of the day we all love to play games, so i don't understand the pirates reasons, really they are just being as short sighted as the industry has been, but i can just about sympathise with them.........just about.
Goodluck to Galciv and it's attempts to frustrate the freeloaders, the games industry needs some good news - as do games players.

[Triphosphatase]

I think much more should be done in closeing down these sites - they are obviously being used primeraly for illegal activities. As more people become conected to the internet this problem can only get worse.

That would be a wasted effort, considering only a few users uses web sites to get their warez.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by billybaruch1
What's your next project, comrade? Convincing GalCiv players of their dialectical materialism?

Oooooh look! A neoliberal, randroid, or other variety of capitalist ideologue. Are you sure you even know what 'dialectical materialism' is?

[Ellestar]

Well all this protection may be good... But i brought pirate CD and it was with serial key. So, as long as i'm not updating game there is no way how game can check that i'm using pirate version.

But more important issue for me is these patches downloading from SDCentral (i also brought Download version of the game on galciv.com) will work with game and multimedia from pirate CD? I don't really want to download game+multimedia from inet with 2,5K/sec on modem. Well, at least Stardock Central showing that i have both game and multimedia installed.

[ravagon]

Um...
Is any of this going to have any effect on someone who runs Galciv on a different machine to the one with the www link?
I don't mind a serial number check upon installation but having to go through it just to download would be ... problematic.

[Malleus]

Yes, it checks your serial number on download.

M

[MarkG]

When you do it 2-4 times every week......It can get a bit annoying

see? stardock hasnt released an update for 3 days now.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Hey now, give the guys a break. They get weekends off too...or at least they should- that was one hella-productive week they put in. I only count it as 1 day so far.

[Cookie Monster]

Infogreed's products are part of the problem of piracy. Why pay for their trash?

I have never pirated a game. In fact I spent hard earned money on Civ3 and Moo3. I kept Civ3 and still play it from time to time even though it's got it's share of problems. Moo3 otoh was so disgusting that I am very thankful I was able to trade it in for store credit. The lesson I learned was never ever buy any PC game with Infogreeds name on it.

Now I went out and bought galciv this weekend and played for 5 hours. It was freaking fun right out of the box and even though I haven't patched my copy yet I found nothing wrong with the game during those initial 5 hours.

I will continue to be an honest customer and buy my games but I have learned that careful research is a must these days. I certainly can understand pirates though. The industry should take steps to stop them however the gaming industry better make games that are worth my hard earned money. Thankfully galciv is just such a game........

[CygnusZ]

Yeah, basically the answer is right there. Just release it into the warez scene and let the Galactic Civilizaiton people tire themselves out before releasing an offical pirate addon. After all, this whole "updating" thing can't last more than a few months. Then it's on to the next project. I find it... VERY... hard to believe that software manufactures actually have the upper hand, at least in a single player context.

I haven't pirated in years, but this guy is just tempting me to do it ^^

[MarkG]

seems like brad's post is trolling out the idiots one by one...

Stardock has already announced a years of updates. after that, with the subscription system that they have created and the fan base that is being formed, they've got all the reasons of the world to continue with the updates

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Malleus
Yes, it checks your serial number on download.

Looks like I'll have to start rooting for the pirates...

[darcy]

Brad's method itself is very smart. If you can fool the casual cracker at game start he won't play the game enough to notice the more subtle checks.

But bragging about this protection in public was a mistake. Reversers read stuff like this as a challenge, so we'll probably see a keygen soon. If the online download thingy has no additional checks that will also grant access to all patches and extras.

[yin26]

If it were purely a challenge to pirates, that would be one thing. But Brad has also made 3 compelling reasons to buy the game:

1) An excellent game;
2) A year's worth of updates -- free; and
3) A good chance your particular bug, suggestion, etc., will be taken seriously as long as it doesn't require a rewrite of the game.

Now, I tend to believe that pirates fall into a few categories:

1) Those who like the challenge of breaking code, etc., and who could really care less about the games themselves: These folks you won't likely get to buy your game anyway;

2) Those who simply like to steal and will make up any number of B.S. reasons to defend theft: These folks also likely won't buy the game because they are like leeches on your ass;

3) Those who lack enough money to buy games: Listen, not all economies of the world make it easy to pay $40-50 a game, particularly if you are a young player ... but presented with a game like GalCiv that has a year's worth of support and free content coming, and I think you might convince people who have played the pirated version to pay the money for the full thing.

4) The 'full-featured demo' players who have been burned many, many times by shoddy companies and refuse to be burned again so they d/l full versions to test them, and demos don't really do the trick, either, since the content and play are so limited: These folks are (listening to buzz) being convinced that GalCiv is indeed one of those industry gems that truly deserves your money.

So, categories 3 and 4 are, I think, Brad's target with the serial number checks, etc. People who genuinely come to enjoy the game COULD go through the hassle of repeatedly finding the latest cracks, etc., but when the game and the support are so good, I believe any but the hack freack and pirate loser will pay the money.

And GalCiv is certainly worth the money.

[Mestro77]

This is an interesting thread! Sounds like the developers have finally found an effective way to shut down piracy!

I'm new to the game though and don't understand what Brad means when he says "I delete the galaxy class ". Can someone explain what the implication of this is? Sounds like it's the sort of thing a pirate could just play without......just not use the galaxy class. Or maybe copy a deleted galxacy class file over from a 'virgin' installation. Anyone understand what this means?

Also, it would be fun to view the cut scene! Anyone know the name of the movie file?? I suppose it would be possible to rename it to the intro movie's file name and see it! Anyone tried this?

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Cheers

[MarkG]

don't understand what Brad means when he says "I delete the galaxy class ". Can someone explain what the implication of this is

the game will delete a file if it finds something wrong with the serial number. after that, the game will stop functioning

puting in the file again wont work as the game will delete it again next time

[Mestro77]

I've been spending a fair bit of time trying to find the new "piracy cut-scene" that Brad says was enabled with the bonuspak. There doesn't seem to be any new .bik files. Very few files changed at all after the bonuspak. I thought it would be fun to try to "fake" having a pirate copy by renaming the pirate cut-scene to be the intro movie, but can find no such new cut-scene.
So I tried trawling the newgroups to see if there's been a great hew and cry from the pirate serial users after updateing with the bonuspak. And there seems to be no mention of games going non-functional. Pirates are very vocal, and I'm sure word would have spread quickly if there was a bomb in the bonuspak.
All this strikes me as being more likely that Brad is just bluffing about the anti-piracy code. Not a bad tactit probably - I image a lot of would be pirates would read what he said and immediately abandon trying to pirate or crack the game.
The original article on the Apolyton web page said that the comment from Brad came from the official GalCiv forum. I also can't find any such comment from Brad there.
Sounds to me like a big red herring.....
Oh well - would have been fun to try and see the new scene that all the cheap pirate buggers will get!! hehe

[billybaruch1]

Oooooh look! A neoliberal, randroid, or other variety of capitalist ideologue. Are you sure you even know what 'dialectical materialism' is?

Yes, thank you. I'm quite sure. But you may not be aware that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is, in essence, PRIVATE PROPERTY. Got that?

If all you can do is spout labels, go take a hike. You'll find out what's important if you live.

[Mestro77]

I just found a newsgroup article that Brad himself posted on Mar 5. In it he SPECIFICALLY says that there is no copy protection. That instead they rely on "Instead, we've
taken the route of providing long term feature support".

Seems pretty clear to me now that the whole BonusPak bomb issue is an anti-piracy bluff on Brad's part. Kudos to him, of course, for trying - we all hate piracy. But it's not likely to work since most people will try the game even after the bonuspak and find that it still works just fine.

Can anybody rebut my conclution that there is in fact no anti-piracy measures?? I'm chatting with a guy inside of Stardock Central who says he wrote part of the code and that it's for real - but of course he won't offer any actual proof. So I'm not buying it....
Anyone know of a way to force the game into displaying the anti-piracy cut-scene or otherwise demonstrate that it's not all a bluff?

[Mestro77]

Oops - forgot to give the link into Google's newsgroup archive where you can find the article in question. Here it is:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&...%40comcast.com

It's kind of weird looking so I hope it works when pasted.....

[ravagon]

Hmmmm. I just had a bit of a poke around the stardock site and wandered through the dl links.
Trying to dl the patch (for example) gave me a screen to manually enter in e-mail and serial #. Is this the only "check" in the dl process? Obviously the # will be integrated into "my" patch which will then cross-check with my installation when I've run it, but it really doesn't look as though there's a requirement to check the installation itself before dl...

Is the "registration" process similar by any chance?

ie: Can I register using just my serial #and e-mail, entered manually, without having to have the actual installation/serial # checked?

This would actually work for me if true.

[MarkG]

The original article on the Apolyton web page said that the comment from Brad came from the official GalCiv forum. I also can't find any such comment from Brad there.
Sounds to me like a big red herring.....

we dont post stuff that dont exist. try harder

[campfreddie]

Well, since Brad (Draginol) posted on this thread, I think we can trust that this is true!

[Lemmy]

ravagon, if you want to dl updates without having the game installed, you'll have to enter your email and serial in the dl page found on the site. But AFAIK only the big updates will be available to dl at the site.
If you want the smaller more frequent updates, you'll need to use stardock central, and then you must have the game installed to dl the updates.

[Mestro77]

Hi Mark,
I didn't mean to imply that Apolyton would deliberatly most inaccurate information. But IF the anti-piracy scheme Brad is talking about is in fact just an elaborate bluff, then Apolyton may have just been swept along in the deception.

Not really a bid deal of course - I'm sure I've already spent more time on this thread than it's worth.....after all, I started off just curious to try to see the pirate cut-scene....

Anyway - I challenge you (in a friendly way) to find a link to the original article on the GalCiv site that supports the original statement allegedly attributed to Brad about the BonusPak piracy bomb. I've searched the forums there as thoroughly as I can and find absolutely nothing. I don't want to beat a dead horse - so if neither you nor anybody else can offer actual proof that this anti-piracy scheme is in effect, then I suggest we let this particular thread drop. I'm speaking just for myself of course - anyone can contribute here if they want. But personally I'm concluding it's a bluff/hoax since there is no supporting evidence - despite what Brad himself has posted here (if it was even actually him).

Cheers.

[kinkkupa]

Well.. here's a bit from a NFO spreading site's board:

Galactic Civilization updates FUNNY

If anyone is dumb like myself you will download stardockcentral and try to update the game well the good news is now it lets you...the bad news is you get a random event that occurs that well basically is hysterical. unfortunately it disables the game and you have to clear your registry and re-install.

"Greetz Warez Doods" from the developers if your bored with the game just download the patch and start a new game after about 30 turns the event and message shall appear.

Nice.

[Inverse Icarus]

4) The 'full-featured demo' players who have been burned many, many times by shoddy companies and refuse to be burned again so they d/l full versions to test them, and demos don't really do the trick, either, since the content and play are so limited: These folks are (listening to buzz) being convinced that GalCiv is indeed one of those industry gems that truly deserves your money.

that's me. i'm glad i didn't buy moo3

but i'm not angry that i cant test galciv, i'm going to buy it eventually, when i get the money up.

[Saurus]

While I do not aprove piracy in general, I DO understand how frustrating it is when the game just IS NOT AVAILABLE through ANY legal channel.

I have a legaly bought copy of such TBS- games as
CIV3, HOMM3 + expansions etc...

I have bought them legaly because:

1) I get the printed manual by doing so.
2) I wan't to show my support to the TBS-game genre.
There are way to few TBS-games available anyway.

I WOULD have a legaly bought copy of GALACTIC CIVILIZATION as well, IF THE DARN GAME
JUST WOULD BE AVAILABLE!!!

I live in Finland. (a modern, european country)
I cannot get a credit card since I only have a part-time job (witch is not enough to apply for a credit card here)
No stores in Finland carry the game so I can also not buy the game localy even if my bank account currently has more than 20 times the cash needed to pay the indeed (IMHO) reasonable LOW price of Galactic Civilization.

Frustrated, I also sent an email to Maria Loreto , Sales Cordinator of strategy first, expressing my concern for
the game simply not beeing available to common people
in Europe. I also kindly asked for advice about how I could get me hands on the game.
I even pointed out that if the game only would be available in any NEIGHBOURING country, I could always travel there and buy a copy of the game, and then return home very happy!
This was 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately, I have not to date received ANY kind of response.
I also called my friends, who lives in Sweden, to
keep an eye on THEIR local stores but even them have not seen the game available anywhere.

To the designers and artist of stardock, who probably have made a great game, I would like to ask the question wheter it, in their opinnion, is fair that I, as a buying customer, has to just wait and wait...maybe for months, or even years, for a game to appear on the shelves. As an European, to constantly beeing treated as second class customer to the degree we are not even worth responding to when asking about the
availability of a product, is taking its toll and will be remembered the next time a product is launched by Stardock or Strategy first.


Ethics about playing a warez-version of the game?
Ha! Why would I care about ethics if none are shown towards me? I have done EVERYTING in my power to get a legal version of the game, I really have.

And then...
now I am here reading about how the staff at
stardock congratulates themselves for doing such a good copyprotection. Well, folks, this is NOT amusing.
It just makes me angry.
The reason is that this all just demostrates that instead of actually doing something to assist Europeans in get the change to buy the game legaly, the Stardockers are more concerned in stopping pirated versions for non-americans.
Congratulations, Stardock & Strategy First!
Continue on this path and you end up in a
"HOMM4" disaster where people stopped
bying the game and expansions - simply because they
were being treated badly.

In this regard, Playing a warez version in the future, remains a reality even if I would have to "watch a player going to prison"-cut scene.

I will still wait, however, for some month or so.
Should I get an opportunity to buy a LEGAL copy I will run to the strore, run run run...and buy the game right away and will become very happy I am sure.

Should I have to wait for months and months, It is however, very questionable if I still consider the prize worth the money. Not because the game itself would be bad but because of the bad treatment of me as an customer.

Many customers have a long memory in this regard and that may be critical the next time stardock launches a new product one might be intrested in.


Lastly back to the point, instead of focusing on copy-protections, focus on how to make the game legaly available for all fans!

DO THAT!

-S

[Mestro77]

edit be markg: you've got to be kidding me

[unic]

Saurus - and you don't know anybody with a credit card either? Relatives, friends, anybody?

I don't have a credit card either, and that's what I did... asked a friend to order it for me, and payed him in cash. (Though, of course, it would have been preferable if the game was distributed here in Europe...)

/unic