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Old April 4, 2003, 00:29   #211
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:29   #212
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Actually, it was Humboldt, which is about 40 miles from central Lincoln. Still part of the region, though, ain't it?

I haven't heard of a murder of a gay person due to their sexual orientation here in New York happening, and if it did, it was undoubtedly a long, long time ago. Regardless, surely you wouldn't want to try and compare the level of tolerance towards homosexuality in the Lincoln metropolitan area as opposed to New York, would you?
I think that's too broad of a generalization -- just because a metropolis is generally more culturally liberal, does not mean that hate crimes do not happen.
But in comparing to smaller cities -- you're right, hate crimes are more likely to occur.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:31   #213
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Actually, it was Humboldt, which is about 40 miles from central Lincoln. Still part of the region, though, ain't it?
You've obviously never been to Humboldt. It's light years away from Lincoln, socially.

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I haven't heard of a murder of a gay person due to their sexual orientation here in New York happening
Well no ****. Hate crimes in New York don't sell, so it doesn't make the papers. When the hicks out in the sticks do it, however, it's a national tragedy and you get movies made out of it. The folks back east just love to learn about the poor, backward folk in the flyover...

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Regardless, surely you wouldn't want to try and compare the level of tolerance towards homosexuality in the Lincoln metropolitan area as opposed to New York, would you?
Yes I would. Do you really know anything about Lincoln? You might want to know what you're talking about before you jump to conclusions...
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:34   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrFun


I think that's too broad of a generalization -- just because a metropolis is generally more culturally liberal, does not mean that hate crimes do not happen.
But in comparing to smaller cities -- you're right, hate crimes are more likely to occur.

Did you forget about the time when a couple of police officers rammed a night stick up a guy's ***?
We weren't specifically referring to hate crimes, but to the general tolerance of and attitude towards homosexuals in a particular region. Nobody asserted hate crimes don't happen in big, liberal cities--I did post a thread about such an incident here in NYC not too long ago. But I'm sure that not many would argue that New York and the surrounding metropolitan region has a far more tolerant attitude about homosexuality than most of the country, let alone conservative midwestern regions.

And no, I didn't forget about that, but since it was irrelevant to the topic, why bring it up? Abner Luima wasn't gay, after all.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:34   #215
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Come on, you do it about once a thread!
Only once a thread?
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:35   #216
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


We weren't specifically referring to hate crimes, but to the general tolerance of and attitude towards homosexuals in a particular region. Nobody asserted hate crimes don't happen in big, liberal cities--I did post a thread about such an incident here in NYC not too long ago. But I'm sure that not many would argue that New York and the surrounding metropolitan region has a far more tolerant attitude about homosexuality than most of the country, let alone conservative midwestern regions.

And no, I didn't forget about that, but since it was irrelevant to the topic, why bring it up? Abner Luima wasn't gay, after all.
I'm speaking within the context of hate crimes in general, with that specific one I mentioned as an example.

And besides, how many hate crimes in New York are actually reported?
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:38   #217
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
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Actually, it was Humboldt, which is about 40 miles from central Lincoln. Still part of the region, though, ain't it?
You've obviously never been to Humboldt. It's light years away from Lincoln, socially.
That doesn't alter the fact that the overall culture of the region is vastly conservative.

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Well no ****. Hate crimes in New York don't sell, so it doesn't make the papers. When the hicks out in the sticks do it, however, it's a national tragedy and you get movies made out of it. The folks back east just love to learn about the poor, backward folk in the flyover...
Oh bullshit. As I pointed out to MrFun, not long ago I posted a thread about an attack on a gay man that was big news in all the papers here. And, like he mentioned, the Abner Luima case wasn't exactly ignored, now was it?

I love the persecution complex midwesterners seem to think the east coast has for them...

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Yes I would. Do you really know anything about Lincoln? You might want to know what you're talking about before you jump to conclusions...
Ok, we'll start with laws enacted about hate crimes, municipal offering of domestic partnership benefits, gay-oriented business and events, the number of businesses offering gay-friendly programs, and work from there, shall we?
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:39   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
I'm speaking within the context of hate crimes in general, with that specific one I mentioned as an example.

And besides, how many hate crimes in New York are actually reported?
Since nobody else was speaking about hate crimes in general, and we had only mentioned gay murders, why bring it up?

The thread is about homosexuality, MrFun...I'd think you of all folks could keep your focus on that subject.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:39   #219
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I love the persecution complex midwesterners seem to think the east coast has for them...
You damn liberal, east coast hippie! Stop persecuting me!
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:41   #220
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I love the persecution complex midwesterners seem to think the east coast has for them...


I am assuming that's directed towards Drake, and not me, since I have no such "complex" against East Coast fellas.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:42   #221
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Since nobody else was speaking about hate crimes in general, and we had only mentioned gay murders, why bring it up?

The thread is about homosexuality, MrFun...I'd think you of all folks could keep your focus on that subject.
This coming from a gay man who was using anti-Jewish slurs as an example in this thread about anti-gay slurs.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:42   #222
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That doesn't alter the fact that the overall culture of the region is vastly conservative.
Why are the urban areas in Nebraska strongly Democratic, then?

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I love the persecution complex midwesterners seem to think the east coast has for them...
Maybe it comes from ignorant New Yorkers spouting off about things they don't understand. I love how you're trying to tell me what the culture is like here...

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Ok, we'll start with laws enacted about hate crimes, municipal offering of domestic partnership benefits, gay-oriented business and events, the number of businesses offering gay-friendly programs, and work from there, shall we?
I know about these things; the point is that you don't. Don't tell me what Lincoln is like when you don't have the first damn clue.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:48   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrFun




I am assuming that's directed towards Drake, and not me, since I have no such "complex" against East Coast fellas.
Considering I was quoting Drake...

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This coming from a gay man who was using anti-Jewish slurs as an example in this thread about anti-gay slurs.
Which was completely different than your bring up hate crimes in general for some unknown reason when we were specifically talking about gay murders.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:52   #224
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
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That doesn't alter the fact that the overall culture of the region is vastly conservative.
Why are the urban areas in Nebraska strongly Democratic, then?
Urban areas don't constitute an entire region, dufus. Pockets of liberalness are everywhere, even in conservative regions. Are you trying to say Nebraska isn't an overwhelmingly conservative area?

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Maybe it comes from ignorant New Yorkers spouting off about things they don't understand. I love how you're trying to tell me what the culture is like here...
More likely it comes from bristling at the notion your **** stinks as much as anyone else's, I'd say.

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I know about these things; the point is that you don't. Don't tell me what Lincoln is like when you don't have the first damn clue.
Oh? Considering how easy it is for me to look up whether or not Lincoln has any of those things, and you didn't bother to even try to assert they did, I'd say I might just have more of a clue about it than you. Somehow I doubt you are well-versed on Lincoln's policies regarding gays, considering it is (I imagine) not a subject you're particularly passionate about.
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:54   #225
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ANYhoo, now that the requisite trolling is done and the original point of the thread is demolished, it must be time for us to go to bed!
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:55   #226
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I know about these things; the point is that you don't. Don't tell me what Lincoln is like when you don't have the first damn clue.
Fitting, weren't you just telling gay people what they shouldn't be offended by?
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Old April 4, 2003, 00:58   #227
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Originally posted by Asher

Fitting, weren't you just telling gay people what they shouldn't be offended by?
Oh, he has no right to be offended over it, since clearly it wasn't my intent to offend him.
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:00   #228
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More likely it comes from bristling at the notion your **** stinks as much as anyone else's, I'd say.
No, it comes from you and Asher implying that homosexuals need to fear for their safety in Nebraska, like we're some ****ing backwater out of the Old West. I don't take kindly to ill-informed condescension.

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Somehow I doubt you are well-versed on Lincoln's policies regarding gays
You would be wrong. Policies towards gays have been a huge issue here in recent years and anyone who pays even marginal attention to the local news knows what's going on...
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:04   #229
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I don't take kindly to ill-informed condescension.
Yet you seem to not have a problem dishing it out when it is convenient for you, like when telling gays when they can and can't be offended.

Thanks for proving our point so well.

Game, set, match.
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:06   #230
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ok i'm sure using the word gay but meaning lame to an audience that contained any homosexuals would indeed be offensive, however, the world gay isn't primarily a sexual slur such as a word starting with d and refering to lesbians or a word starting with f and referring to gay men

you hear about gay pride all of the time, and unless i am wrong the term gay pride seems widely accepted by the vast majority of gay community

you cannot say the same for a word starting with n that refers to african americans, or a word starting with k refering to jews, or a word starting with d refering to italian americans, so the word gay in and of itself isn't offensive to anyone really, and it has a long tradition of use predating any references to homosexuality

now maybe the kid does need to take a time out, along with a sensitivity class, that's fine but suspension?!?!?

we live in a herto world, and this kid may not know a single person who proclaims their homosexuality, and this kid may have very limited exposer to anything associated with gay culture, plus 12 year old boys aren't paragons of either maturity or tolerance, yet the far majority do mature and grow more tolerant

obviously the boy wasn't decrying homosexuality, he was using a term most likely widely accepted and understood by his peers. in all probability 12 year old boys first definition of the word gay mean lame, bogus, or unjustified. it is my opinion that they have a right to co-opt the word gay to mean lame even if it is offense to most homosexuals, because homosexuals co-opted the word even though it was offensive to many heterosexuals.

the real problem here isn't intolerance of gays, it is

NO TOLERANCE POLICIES RUN AMOK!!!!!

the kid complained, and the same bureaucrats that suspend kids who bring nail clippers to school because they are armed and dangerous, suspended this kid
this is an overreaction on the part of the school, it ignores normal child development in the pursuit of a PC/clintonesq utopia, and it doesn't teach anyone a lesson, except for the mother, and it teachers her that the school gives a **** about her kid
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:07   #231
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Yet you seem to not have a problem dishing it out when it is convenient for you, like when telling gays when they can and can't be offended.
I did no such thing.

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Game, set, match.


This has been a pretty pathetic display on your part, Boris. You didn't even reach the admittedly low standards I have for you...
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:07   #232
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I'm speaking within the context of hate crimes in general, with that specific one I mentioned as an example.
Noted, but no less irrelevant.

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Fitting, weren't you just telling gay people what they shouldn't be offended by?
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:09   #233
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Korn469, please read the thread before you post arguments already demolished.
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:09   #234
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korn469: The difference between the N-word and "gay" is that the N-word is, by its nature, derogatory and "gay", by its nature, is not.

But both can be used in derogatory ways. IE: Using "gay" as an insult for everything...
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:10   #235
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this is an overreaction on the part of the school
I agree. Sensitvity training or something similar would have been better, IMO.
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:12   #236
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this is an overreaction on the part of the school
I agree. Sensitvity training or something similar would have been better, IMO.
I definitely agree the school's punishment was out of line.

What I'd like to see is a message to students informing them all that it's unacceptable, and in the future will be dealt with by the administration.

And even then, I'd be giving out detentions, not suspensions...
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:17   #237
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Korn469, please read the thread before you post arguments already demolished
mindseye, just because you think you are right doesn't mean the argument has been demolished

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korn469: The difference between the N-word and "gay" is that the N-word is, by its nature, derogatory and "gay", by its nature, is not.

But both can be used in derogatory ways. IE: Using "gay" as an insult for everything
i agree, but i think that means that extra caution should be used before punishing a person for using a word with a number of uses

my point is this kid might not have realized that he was using the word in a degrading fashion, he might have been using it in a way that seemed highly appropriate to him and his peers, completely unaware that people would find his use offensive
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:20   #238
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I definitely agree the school's punishment was out of line.

What I'd like to see is a message to students informing them all that it's unacceptable, and in the future will be dealt with by the administration.

And even then, I'd be giving out detentions, not suspensions
I agree with that. a verbal warning, then maybe a parent teacher conference, then detention, then a longer stay in detention, then suspension.

but an automatic suspension? that's bs!
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:24   #239
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mindseye, just because you think you are right doesn't mean the argument has been demolished
Well, if you have something new to post, refuting the arguments previously made, I'm ready to hear it. Otherwise, they stand.

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my point is this kid might not have realized that he was using the word in a degrading fashion
I think we all agree that, based on the limited information given, the punishment seems harsh. The central argument here seems to be whether or not the use of "gay" as "lame" or "bad" is derogatory to gays.
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Old April 4, 2003, 01:28   #240
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Well, if you have something new to post, refuting the arguments previously made, I'm ready to hear it. Otherwise, they stand.
i just got home and only read like the last 30 or so posts because of lack of time, next time i'll add a disclaimer

Quote:
I think we all agree that, based on the limited information given, the punishment seems harsh. The central argument here seems to be whether or not the use of "gay" as "lame" or "bad" is derogatory to gays
is that the real argument? i completely agree that the use of the word gay to mean lame is offensive to gays, that is a very boring argument lol

now just because you say something that somebody doesn't like, if it doesn't threaten them, should you be allowed to say it? i think you should have that right, to me freedom of speech far outweighs people's feelings getting hurt
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