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Old April 25, 2003, 10:48   #1
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Early Landing Comparison Game #4
Since it's starting to become a tradition, I will post the starts for comparison game #4 on a friday, too, to give players with busy lives one more weekend to fit in comparison game play.

This time you will be playing as the Eqyptians, there will be a medium and a large map start, as in game #3. The deadline will be in 3 weeks, Sunday, May 18th.

Rules used for Comparison Games

a) The human player may not tip any huts. What’s a rule without an exception, so in the rare situation where a hut may block a player’s movement, the player must save the game, after which the hut is tipped enough times until it produces a military unit or a nomad, which must then be immediately disbanded. Huts appearing in a radius of any city can be destroyed without reaping any benefit by placing a citizen on the hut’s tile while in the city display.

b) Since the game attempts to prevent caravan and freight re-homing, this exploit is not allowed. Any other ploy or exploit is allowed.

c) As a minimum each player should provide a summary of their game, using the format provided with each game start. Each player is also encouraged to keep a chronological log of their game, listing significant events. The addition of details describing the game and strategic decisions made while playing it add interest, so doing this is very much encouraged. Once a game is completed, a short game summary and the optional log should be posted in the game’s thread. Attached to this post should be a save of the game made showing a completed ship or one on the way to Alpha Centauri.

d) The player posting the best landing date before the deadline will be declared the winner of that game. If the date is the best so far attained in comparison games, it will become the new “official” record.


Summary Format

Governments
Monarchy
Republic
Democracy
Communism/Fundamentalism

Wonders
HG
MPE
ST
Colossus
Copernicus
Isaac's
Leo's
Michaelangelo's
Darwin's
SETI
Apollo

SSC stats
size 8
size 12
size 21
max. size

Techs
Trade
Invention
Railroad
Automobile
Nuclear Power
Computers
Flight
Space Flight

Key civ contact

AC arrival

The table following each game will contain these stats. Of course, you may not end up building all wonders listed, or use all governments, so just keep track of dates relevant to your own game. More detailed logs and/or written accounts of games will be at the players' discretion. Add as little or as much as you want to the required summary.

For those of you who are new to early landing games, here is a link to my strategy guide:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=82209

The discussions and logs included in the threads of previous games also contain updates to and some improvements over the basic strategies presented in the guide.

Below is the start for the medium map game. There is a suitable SSC site at (51,43):
Attached Files:
File Type: sav ra_b4000.sav (67.9 KB, 35 views)

Last edited by solo; April 26, 2003 at 20:50.
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Old April 25, 2003, 10:50   #2
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And here's the large map start. Possible SSC sites are (48,88) and (50,92):
Attached Files:
File Type: sav cl_b4000.sav (132.7 KB, 22 views)
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Old April 25, 2003, 11:27   #3
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Re: Early Landing Comparison Game #4
Quote:
Originally posted by solo
Attached to this post should be a save of the game made showing a completed ship or one on the way to Alpha Centauri.
Can I post a save after launching instead of one turn before landing? Playing 36 turns is becoming a nightmare!

(Obviously a player should be asked to play on if a rival civ was likely to land a faster ship or if the human player's capital was in danger.)

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Old April 25, 2003, 13:14   #4
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yes
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Old April 25, 2003, 13:33   #5
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Thanks ... that will save a lot of time.

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Old April 25, 2003, 13:35   #6
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Well i guess i wanted to see how much ive learnt and managed to assimilate so far...nows my chance. Count me in guys tho dont wait for any groundbreaking new strategies!

Not..quite yet anyway....

P.S one thing ive read a few logs and even tried to play a couple if turns but i find if ppl dont post the extact move of their units or placement of their workers on tiles its hard to follow EXACT step by step. In fact how would one verify anothers game to be 100%. Is their anyway without saving and posting every turns saved file?

Later....
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Old April 25, 2003, 14:06   #7
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Welcome Paradox,

Logs may not provide every detail, but I know that by following the logs of the best OCC players, I learned a lot when first trying to play that way. Since there are not any foolproof ways to validate any game, we do not attempt to use logs for this purpose.

Just make sure you enjoy playing your game!
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Old April 25, 2003, 17:48   #8
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Ty Solo

I think i enjoy tooooo much Well so the other half always says
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Old April 27, 2003, 07:39   #9
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Early Landing Game #4 - medium map

LOG

2850 BC Two barbarian archers land next to Thebes.
2800 BC Brave warior in Thebes survives first attack but is killed by second; Thebes destroyed.
2550 BC Warior in Heliopolis killed by barbarian archer; Heliopolis destroyed.
2150 BC Elaphanitine founded.
2000 BC Barb archer returns to capture Elaphantine.

To sum up, I have 1 city and no palace. I have rampant corruption and waste. I have a barbarian city on my doorstep.

If I can land at all, I will be very pleased.

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Old April 27, 2003, 08:32   #10
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To be honest you may as well just restart. Whilst replaying the start of #1 to try out some opening tweaks for later games the barbs landed pretty much as early as is possible and wiped my cap. I don't think there is anything you can do so early, and if you lose in this manner it is bad luck, not bad play.

Later on if you get done over by barbs because of choices you made not to defend then that is different, but as you describe it you may as well just restart IMO.
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Old April 27, 2003, 10:55   #11
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RJM,

At least you have not lost your SSC after devoting a large amount of time and energy, which can be even more devastating.

There's always the large map game. Fewer chances there of barb attacks, because they have to find you first.
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Old April 28, 2003, 02:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
To be honest you may as well just restart.
I thought I'd carry on, just to see what happened - no hope of an early landing of course.

With all that corruption and waste there wasn't much point in growing my remaining city so I decided to spit out a few settlers. I had hopes of eventualy bribing back the barb city, but an Indian army appeared and destroyed it during a rather lengthy battle for control.

My cost of research was so high and my beakers so low that it was going to take about 20 turns just to complete researching Ceremonial Burial. I tried building a court house, but actually this took so long to build it didn't help much. While I was trying to recover I received 2 sneak attacks from the Romans so I decided to concentrate on eliminating them.

In AD 1842 the last Roman city fell to the Egyptian kingdom - a rather sprawling and ramshackle kingdom at that. My only wonder is the pyramids that I captured along with Rome. Still, I've got more that 170 turns left to get to Alpha Centuri.

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Old May 2, 2003, 12:43   #13
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I have finished my medium map game with a landing date of 795 AD.

Since the home continent was a large one, I decided to use this game to experiment with the early Monarchy strategy. I expected to share this huge continent with a number of tribute-paying AI, which proved to be the case. So I went to Monarchy first, learning Bronze Working along the way, so that Trade could come as soon as possible after Monarchy. As in the previous game, the first wonder built was Marco Polo’s, and even though I had made contact with the key civ and another neighboring civ on turns preceding the completion of MPE, I felt that all of its benefits still made completing it worthwhile.

The next wonder built was the Hanging Gardens. Normally I don’t like building wonders that expire, especially when an off path tech such as Pottery is needed, too, but this wonder and the ability to build a granary seemed to suit the situation presented by this start. With the Hanging Gardens built in the SSC, it will celebrate during Monarchy, and if enough warriors are used for martial law in helpers, they will to. A celebrating Monarchy provides almost as many trade arrows as a Republic, allowing the faster research speed and better delivery payments of that higher form of government. Meanwhile, with 2 or 3 cheap warriors protecting every city, they were safer and it was easy to extract the maximum amount of tribute from the 4 AI sharing the home continent.

This arrangement seemed to combine the best features of both government types very well. The only thing lacking was the ability to celebrate the SSC up in size, but after building a granary as the first improvement in the SSC, its three food specials helped accelerate its growth up to size 8. By this time, the AI treasuries had been drained, so a shift was made to Republic to continue SSC growth, which was easy to maintain with the Shakespeare’s Theater and HG combination. Size 21 was reached in 1 AD. By this time all of the scientific wonders and improvements had been added, making SSC progress go even faster than in the previous 615 AD game.

Although the early part of this game went even better than the last one, the middle section did not go nearly as well, resulting in a later landing date.

Although it was very useful, MPE did not pay off as well as in the previous game. The AI hardly ever chose useful techs to research during this game, and some of the luck I had in the previous game such as with the English as a research partner was not repeated here. Even though all the AI were given Monarchy early on, none were able to learn Feudalism, let alone Chivalry, in time for trades, forcing me to acquire Warrior Code and Horseback Riding before learning these techs myself. Perhaps as an added insult, the Vikings learned Conscription on the very turn I learned it myself. Just one turn earlier and I could have traded for it, instead!

Another temporary problem I had was matching commodity supply and demand at the point in the game where gold was needed the most to develop the helpers and colonies. Having 4 AI on the same continent helped earlier in the game, but the lack of trading opportunities with the 2 overseas AI kept this game from entering the phase of accelerated trade quickly enough for a better landing date. This is the first EL comparison game where some SSC cargos had to be delivered to non-demanding cities. Trading with colonies went much better, but only after enough techs had been accumulated to make them start demanding oil.

A final problem in the second half of the game was some difficulty getting enough city science to secure an advance per turn. This was partly due to more off path techs than usual, one of which was Refrigeration, which I felt was needed to make this SSC competitive with the one in the previous game.

All in all, I was pretty satisfied with another solid sub-1000 AD game, and was encouraged enough by this experiment with early Monarchy to keep trying it in future games. It will be interesting to see how you others play this one, and what kinds of landing dates you can manage.

ELG #4, Medium Map Summary

Monarchy – 2250 b
Republic – 325 b
Democracy – 220 a

HG – 950 b
MPE – 1300 b
ST – 350 b
Colossus – 525 b
Copernicus – 225 b
Newton’s – 25 b
Darwin’s – 260 a
SETI – 640 a
Apollo – 720 a

Size 8 – 350 b
Size 12 – 200 b
Size 21 – 1 a
Max. size – 31 in 480 a

Key civ – 3050 b
Trade – 1500 b
Invention – 100 b
Railroad – 240 a
Automobile – 400 a
Nuclear Power – 600 a
Computers – 640 a
Flight – 640 a
Space Flight – 720 a
AC arrival – 795 a

Attached is the save made on the the turn of the launch. A detailed log will follow when it is ready.
Attached Files:
File Type: sav ra_a780.sav (72.9 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by solo; May 2, 2003 at 13:41.
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Old May 4, 2003, 12:35   #14
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Solo,

congratulations to another outstanding landing date. This map was hardly better than average. I am past automobile now and will have a pre millenium landing if nothing serious happens. I had a good game so far, but will certainly arrive later. I had the same early tech path to monarchy. Seems that good old monarchy gets its place after all.

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Old May 4, 2003, 14:05   #15
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Thanks, Zenon. Yes, without huts, early Monarchy really seems to have a place in most games, especially if there are many AI on the home continent.

I've had some time to finish my log, so here it is:

Early Landing Comparison Game #4, Medium Map

BC Years

4000 Thebes
3850 Memphis
3750 Alphabet
3650 Mem – warrior
3400 Code of Laws, The – settlers
3250 The – warrior, Heliopolis
3050 The – warrior, contact Indians - peace, trade for Ceremonial Burial

An exploring Indian horseman that found me early.

3000 Mem – warrior
2850 The – warrior
2750 Bronze Working, Mem – warrior, Indians – give tech, Elephantine
2450 Hel – settlers, The – settlers
2250 Monarchy, Indians – give tech, 50g tribute
2200 Alexandria
2150 Pi-Rameses
2100 Ele – settlers
2050 Ale – warrior
1800 Currency, Hel – settlers
1750 The – settlers
1650 PiR – settlers
1600 Ale – settlers
1500 Trade
1450 contact Romans – peace, trade for Map Making and Writing, share maps, Ele – food, The – food

1350 Indians – give tech, 50g tribute
1300 Mem – Marco Polo’s Embassy, Zulus, Vikings & Indians – give tech, peace, share maps

The following techs were now available from MPE: Pottery, Seafaring, Warrior Code, Horseback Riding, Masonry, The Wheel, Literacy, and Mysticism, which was pretty good for this time in the game. The AI were less adept at acquiring techs I needed in time for trades later on, though.

1200 Mem – warrior, Giza, Vikings – trade for Pottery and Masonry; Chinese – give tech, share maps, 100g tribute

Giza was the SSC. I was a little late locating it and then I had to delay founding it until the center tile was irrigated into plains. With 100g in tribute, I’m starting to see how much fun early Monarchy can be in comparison to a gold-starved early Republic.

1150 English – 100g tribute, Romans – give tech, share maps
1100 Giz – granary, Ale – food, Mem – warrior, Ele – trireme
1050 Ale – barb attack, warriors defend, PiR – food, Hel – food, The – food, Romans – 50g tribute

Alexandria was plagued by barb attacks during most of the game, since it was almost surrounded by cityless terrain. These attacks often diverted gold away from more important tasks, but all this barb activity around Alexandria also helped ensure the safety of the SSC and other cities, since one of the best defenses against barbs is knowledge of where they are mostly likely to be attacking next.

1000 Giz – library, Ale – warrior
975 PiR – warrior, Ele – warrior
950 Giz – Hanging Gardens, Vikings – trade for Mysticism, give tech; Indians – give tech, alliance

This alliance was a mistake. No gifts came of it and it prevented chances of deanding more tribute. The Hanging Gardens allowed we love to begin in the SSC and all of the helpers except two. Now I could have most of the benefits of a Republic without any of the bother.

925 English – give tech, share maps
900 Construction, Chinese – trade for Literacy
850 Mem – hides, English – 25g tribute
825 The – trireme, Indians – give tech, share maps
800 Mem – warrior
775 Giz – gems, The – warrior
750 Ale – hides, English – give tech, 25g tribute
725 The – warrior
700 PiR – beads, Ele – copper, Hel – dye
675 Giz – temple, Republic, PiR – warrior, Vikings – trade for The Wheel, give tech, share maps; Romans – trade for Seafaring, give tech, 50g tribute; Chinese – give tech, share maps, 50g tribute

Although discovered, I did not find any need to switch to Republic until ST was built and the SSC could celebrate. All this early gold from tribute was a new and welcome experience for me in EL games.

650 Mem – temple, hides(d) to Trondheim, 168g, The – trireme, Hel – warrior
625 Giz – hides, Indians – give tech, share maps
600 PiR – gems, Philosophy, Medicine, English – give tech, 50g tribute; Romans – 50g tribute

575 Giz – harbor, PiR – food
525 Engineering, Giz – Colossus, Ale – silver, gems(d) to Trondheim, 346g; Indians – trade for Mathematics, give tech share maps

500 Ale – barb attack, Giz – beads
475 PiR – dye, Ele – copper, Mem – hides, hides(d) to Trondheim, 344g
450 Giz – dye, Sanitation
425 Hel – gems, gems(d) to Trondheim, 360g
English – trade for Iron Working, 50g tribute; Romans & Indians – give tech, share maps

400 Giz – acqueduct, PiR – beads, The – copper, Byblos, Chinese – give tech, 100g tribute

Byblos was the first colony, located in between the Zulu and Vikings, the only overseas AI.

375 University, beads(d) to Kaupang, 400g
350 Giz – Shakespeare’s Theater, size 8, Ale – hides, Byb – phalanx, Romans – 50g tribute, Zulus & Vikings – give tech, share maps, English – 50g tribute, Indians – trade for Banking, share maps, revolution

It had been fun collecting tribute but Republic was needed now to accelrate SSC growth. Trade had already begun, and could be used to maintain income now. Barb activity was so heavy around Byblos, I felt a phalanx was justified there immediately for defense.

325 Giz – university, Ele – dye, Hel – gems, Mem – dye, silver(d) to Kaupang, 300g, switch to Republic

Since all warriors were going to be disbanded now, it was time to use a diplomat for defense instead, at home.

300 Byb – salt, Astronomy, Giz – spice
275 Giz – coal, Pir – dye, Ale – diplomat, The – copper, dye(d) to Uppsala, 468g, barb horseman near Alexandria bribed for 41g

The leader behind this horseman jumped onto to another further back. This was kind of annoying, as it happened a few more times, later on. The barb leader kept jumping onto other barb units before I had a chance to kill it.

250 Byb – harbor, Giz – marketplace, Chemistry
225 Giz – Copernicus’s Observatory, barb horseman bribed, 41g, leader escapes
200 Giz – size 12, Indians – give tech, share maps
175 Giz – sewer system
150 PiR – dye, Theory of Gravity, Mem – hides, English – war
125 Giz – salt, Ale – silk, Ele – dye, Hel – gems, The – copper, coal to Uppsala, 376g, Romans – trade for Bridge Building, give tech, share maps; Chinese- give tech, share maps, English – still war

The coal was one of two undemanded SSC cargos (spice next turn was the other) delivered at this time when demand and supply were hard to match up. Unfortunately this came at the worst time in the game, when income from trade would diminish when entering the Renaissance.

100 Byb – settlers, Economics, spice to Uppsala, 388g
75 Giz – gems, PiR – coal, Hel – cloth, The – beads, Indians – trade for Invention

The Indians had to have tipped Invention from a hut. The previous techs acquired from them had been first traded to them by the Chinese. These two civs traded many techs, limiting the usefulness of the Chinese in learning new ones.

50 Giz – beads, Ale – temple, Navigation, El-Amarna, salt(d) to Giz, 146g

El-Armana was the second colony located near the first.

25 Giz – Sir Isaac Newton’s College, PiR – temple, salt to Kaupang, 226g

This is the earliest yet finishing all of the SSC’s science in an EL game, and much of this was due to the succesful use of early Monarchy in this game.

AD Years

1 Gunpowder, Giz – caravel, size 21, ElA – phalanx

As with Byblos, so much nearby barb activity made me feel it necessary to defend my two small colonies. They were also located in between two aggressive civs, the Zulus and the Vikings.

20 Byb – temple, Giz – dye, Metallurgy
40 Ele – temple, Hel – temple, The – temple, Zulus – give tech, share maps
60 Explosives, Ale – engineers, Giz – caravel, gems(d) to Kaupang, 648g
80 ElA – temple, Byb – silk, Physics, Ele – engineers, Hel – gems, Mem – colosseum, The – dye, beads(d) to Uppsala, 452g

100 Giz – bank, PiR – dye, Magnetism, barb leader, 150g (finally!)
120 Vikings – trade for Democracy, give tech, share maps, Giz – cloth, Byb – galleon, All other AI – give tech, share maps

It was a novelty having an AI research Democracy first. I wanted to learn it myself on an Oedo year to keep from losing a turn of research, but something from the AI is better than nothing. For the rest of the game, I had to research almost all of the techs I needed.

140 Steam Engine, Giz – size 25, dye(d) to Ulundi, 336g, silk(d) to Giz – 228g

One additional benefit of the HG is that a non-capital SSC can celebrate beyond size 21 under Republic, allowing the switch to Democracy to be delayed longer than is usual.

160 ElA – harbor, Byb – engineers, Giz – courthouse, Electricity, Ale – silk, Ele – spice

For enough SSC science for two advances per turn later on, I needed a courthouse and had to add about 6 more scientists with the help of some farmland, making Refrigeration a necessary tech.

180 Refrigeration, Hel – salt, Mem – engineers
200 Giz – supermarket, PiR – coal, cloth(d) to Byblos, 192g, Hieraconpolis, revolution

Hieraconpolis was the third colony, located so it would have a gold supply wildcard, a commodity the SSC would be demanding later. I did not have the time or resources at this point to add more colonies. I wish I could have, though, since they were invaluable in this game.

220 Ale – harbor, Ele – harbor, Mem – harbor, The – engineers, switch to Democracy, Byb – galleon, Indians – trade for Horseback Riding

240 Giz – dye, Railroad
260 Giz – Darwin’s Voyage, Industrialization, The Corporation, dye(d) to Kaupang, 336g

The oversea AI were also just a little bit too close for obtaining the best delivery payoffs. This was another factor slowing the pace in the second half of this game.

280 Hie – temple, Giz – cloth, Refining, Mem – gold, The – harbor, Byb – transport, barb knight bribed, 82g

Barb attacks re-commenced against Alexandria.

300 Ale – silk, Giz – transport, cloth(d) to Byblos, 225g
320 Giz – dye, we love begins for all cities, Steel, PiR – harbor; Zulus, Romans, English – give tech, share maps, gold(d) to Uppsala, 324g

One problem I had this game was an over supply of oil before any cities would demand it. This meant waiting for the big oil delivery bonuses, which came a bit too late to put this game in contention with the previous one on a medium map.

340 Giz – oil, Ele – oil, Hel – harbor, dye(d) to Trondheim, 432g
360 Hie – harbor, Giz – copper, Combustion, Mem – copper, silk(d) to Kaupang, 420g

380 Hie – gold, PiR – coal, Ale – oil, Ele – colosseum, Hel – colosseum, copper(d) to Uppsala, 504g

400 we love ends for helpers and colonies, ElA – colosseum, Automobile, The – beads, coal(d) to Uppsala, 315g, copper(d) to Kaupang, 252g; barb knight bribed, 82g, barb leader, 150g

Finally, another leader before it could jump onto another barb unit!

420 Electronics, Giz – superhighways, PiR – colosseum, Chinese & English – give tech, share maps, gold(d) to Giza, 630g; barb knight, 82g, another leader, 150g

Unfortunately, these bribed knights were causing enough unhappiness, that they had to be disbanded immediately after killing the leaders. So the profit was limited to 68 gold each time.

440 Atomic Theory, ElA – oil, Byb – oil, Giz – copper, Ale – colosseum, Hel – gems; Romans, Chinese & English – give tech, share maps; copper(d) to Uppsala, 901g

460 Hie – colosseum, Mass Production, Giz – cloth, PiR – library, Ele – spice, Mem – dye, The – colosseum, oil(d) to Giza, 623g, oil(d) to Giza, 735g; Vikings, trade for Warrior Code

480 ElA – dye, Byb – library, Giz – mass transit, size 31, PiR – university, Ale – university, Hel – library, beads(d) to Hlobane, 164g, gems(d) to Uppdsala, 354g, cloth(d) to Byblos, 445g

500 Hie – dye, Feudalism, Byb – oil, Giz – food, Ale – university, Ele – library, Hel – university, Mem – library, The – dye, Chivalry, oil(d) to Giza, 623g

520 ElA – library, Giz – copper, PiR – dye, Conscription, copper(d) to Kaupang, 966g

540 Hie – salt, Byb – beads, Giz – stock exchange, Ale – dye, Hel – beads, Mem – university, Leadership, The – oil, dye(d) to Kaupang, 252g; Indians – give tech, share maps

560 Giz – cloth, PiR – oil, Tactics, ElA – transport, dye(d) to Zimbabwe, 180g, salt to Giza, 210g, Ele – transport

During this period I was sitting on many oil freights, unable to deliver them to get the first advance of each pair normally available during this phase of a game. Meanwhile, tech costs were outstripping the ability of my cities’ science.

580 Hie – food, Byb – hides, Giz – coal, Ale – gold, Hel – cloth, Mem – food, Machine Tools, The – food, dye(d) to Rome, 240g, coal(d) to Uppsala, 1054g

600 Ela – hides, PiR – beads, Nuclear Power, Ele – beads, beads(d) to Veii, 180g, hides to Giza, 178g, cloth to Hieraconpolis, 61g

The cloth trade was used to unblock gold supply in Hieraconpolis.

620 Hie – gold, Byb – oil, Giz – coal, Ale – food, Hel – food, Mem – food, Miniaturization, The – food, cloth(d) to Hlobane, 1057g, dye(d) to Antium, 248g, gold(d) to Zimbabwe, 300g, dye(d) to Trondheim, 168g; Indians – give tech, share maps

Finally, a little fun with hyper trade and two advances per turn.

640 Computers, ElA – spice, Byb – superhighways, Giz – SETI Program, PiR – food, Flight, Ele – food, coal(d) to Zimbabwe, 680g, hides to Giza, 114g, oil(d) to Giza, 470g, beads to Byblos, 81g, dye(d) to Trondheim, 150g

660 Hie – superhighways, Radio, Ele – superhighways, Byb – oil, Giz – airport, Ale – gold, Hel – food, Mem – food, The – food, Advanced Flight, gold(d) to Giza, 464g, oil(d) to Hieraconplois, 542g, oil(d) to Giza, 472g, gold(d) to Byblos, 212g, oil(d) to Byblos, 282g

680 Hie – airport, ElA – wool, Byb – oil, Giz – oil, Laser, PiR – food, Ele – food, oil(d) to Giza, 470g, beads to Hieraconpolis, 58g, spice to Byblos, 81g, wool(d) to Thebes, 118g

700 Hie – gold, ElA – oil, Byb – oil, PiR – airport, Ale – dye, Hel – food, Ele – airport, Mem – food, Rocketry, gold(d) to Giza, 696g, oil(d) to Hieraconpolis, 812g, oil(d) to Giza, 554g, oil(d) to Hieraconpolis, 338g, Abydos, Asyut

I had a pretty good thing going here trading oil and gold between the SSC and the colonies! Abydos and Asyut were added as space ship parts contractors.

720 Hie – gold, Space Flight, ElA – airport, Byb – airport, Giz – oil, Ale – airport, PiR – Apollo Program, Ele – food, gold(d) to Giza, 696g, oil(d) to Hieraconpolis, 812g, oil(d) to Giza, 705g, gold(d) to Hieraconpolis, 400g, dye to El-Armana, 74g, Avaris, Lisht

740 Lis, Ava, Asy, Aby, Byb, PiR – SS strcuturals, Hie – gold, Plastics, ElA – oil, Giza – oil, Ale – gold, Ele – food, Hel – food, Mem – food, The – food, oil(d) to Giza, 696g, oil(d) to Hieraconpolis, 206g, oil(d) to Byblos, 705g, gold(d) to Byblos, 210g, oil(d) to Giza, 831g, beads to ElA – 49g, Vikings – trade for Polytheism

760 Lis, Ava, Asy, Aby, PiR, Ale, Hel, Mem, The – SS structurals, Hie – gold, Superconductor, ElA – oil, Byb – oil, Giza – food, Ele – food, oil(d) to Giza, 705g, oil(d) to Giza, 831g, gold(d) to Giza, 696g

Almost all city improvements had to be sold to afford a quicker space ship. SETI had been expensive to add earlier, but it did gain a few turns.

780 Asy, Hie, PiR, Ale, Ele, Mem – SS components, Fusion Power, ElA, Byb, Giz – SS modules, 15-3-3-1-1-1, launch

795 arrival Alpha Centauri
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Old May 5, 2003, 04:58   #16
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Congrats with an excellent result!

Did your powerrating remain supreme during most of the game? In most of my early monarchy games my power rating is supreme, but I find it still difficult to extract tribute from all the AI, even if they have gold in excess. I play 2.42. It's not that I get no tribute at all, but it is just a lot less than on emperor level! Then I used to drain them of all their gold.
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Old May 5, 2003, 09:10   #17
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Yes, my power rating was Supreme the whole game.

Besides having a higher power rating, I think the key to extracting a lot of tribute is having enough military units on the same continent, so I build a lot of warriors, since they are cheap and are also useful for maintaining martial law.

Maybe someone has tested this more precisely, to determine the number or ratio of military units that are required to open up the AI coffers.
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Old May 5, 2003, 09:18   #18
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I don't know about ratios but my feeling is it is quantitative not qualitative.......or at least the first effect seems to dominate.
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Old May 6, 2003, 16:15   #19
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ELCG 4 Medium Map, Egyptians 856 AD Landing

Governments
Monarchy 2250 BC
Republic 625 BC
Democracy 60 AD

Wonders
MPE 1100 BC
Colossus 575 BC
ST 450 BC
Copernicus 125 BC
Isaac's 80 AD
Darwin's 260 AD
SETI 600 AD
Apollo 740 AD

SSC stats
size 8 425 BC
size 12 325 BC
size 21 100 BC
max. size 26 in 440 AD

Techs
Trade 1450 BC
Invention 40 AD
Railroad 200 AD
Automobile 420 AD
Nuclear Power 560 AD
Computers 600 AD
Flight 620 AD
Space Flight 680 AD

Key civ contact 2850 BC

AC arrival 856 AD

I had a good start in this game. After trade I tried a new strategy, concentrating more on SSC development than on tech pace and with size 21 in 100 BC and the SSC complete in BC years (only INC came in 80 AD), this worked better than expected. I had a lot of tech trades this way but not being supreme for a long period resulted in tributes of only 50g the whole game.

This time I also tried to build Darwins and SETI on a medium map. The conclusion is that Darwins didn´t bring any advantage as I had turns without tech advance that could have been avoided with more deliveries. SETI had brought good results in my ELG 3 large map game, but in this game I lost time because I was not prepared for the launch. 12 more freights + 2 more turns with trade would have been faster. In the end I sold almost everything to be able to launch a 15 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 spaceship in 820 AD. Both Darwin and SETI are worth building if the trade economy is strong enough.

It seems there are still improvements possible for early Monarchy. Considering the map, my start was the best I had so far and I will test this strategy again. Applying Monks celebrating Monarchy strategy Solo has shown an excellent result.

I am quite curious what will come up next.

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File Type: sav ra_a0820.sav (73.9 KB, 10 views)
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Old May 7, 2003, 02:35   #20
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Good games Zenon and Solo . I noticed in Zenon's save that some of the wonders have an asterisk. Does that mean that they have already expired?

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Old May 7, 2003, 10:47   #21
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RJM,

Yes, the asterisks mean an expired wonder. I admire your decision to press on despite such a disasterous start. If you mange a landing, I think it will be the first game doing it without a capital.

Zenon,

Another excellent game and you were first to Space Flight this time. You did much better adding colonies. I never seemed to have the time to add the few additional ones I wanted too. My excellent trading opportunities near the end gave me enough extra to speed up the space ship.

Comparing Monarchy and Republic, as well as the trade offs between making extra deliveries vs. building extra wonders such as Darwin's and SETI are making these last few games very interesting. Also the timing of SSC growth and that of helpers and colonies is another thing I continue to experiment with, also.

Much depends on the unique situation presented with each start.

While waiting for #5 and light blue, you might want to try the large map game in #4, too. So far, my large map game is going much better than the one in #3, but I am still undecided as to the best way to proceed.

This is a tribute to the complexity of this game, that once you think you've got an optimal strategy, something new or unexpected provides a surprise.
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Old May 8, 2003, 01:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by solo
RJM,

If you mange a landing, I think it will be the first game doing it without a capital.
I'm afraid I built a new palace so even if I land, I won't be without a capital. I haven't yet played beyond 1848. I think I need to get some good trades going, but at the moment the only AI civs I've made contact with are on the same continent. I also need to get my SSC ( ) growing, but most of the best wonders have gone already. On the plus side, despite spending most of the game as pathetic, I've managed to struggle up to mighty. But I'll finish the game before the deadline - either on AC or by retirement.

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Old May 10, 2003, 04:00   #23
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I have now reached 1870. As a result of gifts and trades, I was briefly #1 in science, but the Vikings overtook me when they built Darwin's. Further scientific progress will be very slow - about 8 turns per advance before the effects of trade.

For the curious (or masochistic) I attach the save following my encounter with a couple of barbarian archers. Assuming you choose not to follow Dr Spike's excellent advice (start again) how would you cope with this? Basically I tried spitting out settlers and building a courthouse. I think the former was OK, but I'm not sure about the latter.

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Old May 11, 2003, 11:59   #24
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RJM,

In the future this may be the way we play, to make it more of a challenge. First thing, each player must sell their palace and then see how they can manage with all that big time corruption!

I played it from your position for awhile, and found the the barbs were just warming up! They kept building archers and sending to them attack. Eventually, I accumulated 52 gold which I used to incite a revolt, but by then I was a bit behind the pace of my own game in which I never lost my palace!

Having seen what you're up against, just managing to launch and land before the game ends will be a quite a feat.
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Old May 11, 2003, 12:15   #25
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Quote:
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RJM,

First thing, each player must sell their palace and then see how they can manage with all that big time corruption!
The game won't allow the sale of your Palace...only the construction of an alternative one.

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Old May 11, 2003, 12:50   #26
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Civ I you could sell your palace, Civ II you can't. However you can found a second city and then build a settler in your capital, thereby destroying the palace
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Old May 11, 2003, 13:11   #27
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You can't sell your palace, but you can easily give it away by sticking your tongue out at the barb leader and calling him a big girl's blouse.
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Old May 12, 2003, 02:32   #28
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AC Landing 1941 (Medium Map)

(THE STORY SO FAR ... In 2000 BC as a result of an encounter with a couple of Barb archers I was in despotism with no capital. During the long recovery I was sneak attacked a couple of times by the Romans. The red mist descended and I put aside the objective of reacing AC and decided to eliminate the Romans. In 1848 the last Roman city fell into Egyptian hands and the quest for an early landing resumed. Now read on.)

My technology advances came from Xining most of my cities, technology gifts from my allies (the Indians and the Vikings) and a steady trade with the Vikings and sometimes the Japanese. In due course there was a lot of demand from the Vikings for oil which I had in abundance.

I didn't have a single SSC, but I did have 4 (later 5) cities of a reasonable size. This meant that managing supply was less tricky. My switch to democracy was slowed down by the need to get my triremes back to port.

I planned to build a 33-8-8-1-1-1 spaceship, but I miscalculated and built Apollo too early. As a result the Vikings launched a 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship while I was still constructing. I sold a lot of city improvements and launched a 25-6-6-1-1-1 to land 1 year ahead of the Vikings.

The Vikings didn't take this very well and ended the alliance. Shortly afterwards we were at war. Initially I used the partisans to recover a couple of lost cities expecting this to mean that the Vikings offered peace, but they didn't. After that I simple used all my resources to prevent my new capital being captured before the landing.

This was an interesting experience. I do not recommend Xining up to a dozen cities for more than 50 turns. I'm not sure how much earlier I could have landed if I had ended the war with the Romans before eliminating them. It would have given me more time, but the captured Roman cities were vital to my trading and research.

I stopped keeping a detailed log, but I'll try to reconstruct as many of the key statistics as possible from my game saves and post them later.

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Old May 12, 2003, 02:54   #29
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Great result RJM! Your adventure may have taken longer than most but you'll be the only player offered film rights

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Old May 12, 2003, 05:25   #30
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Thanks SG2.

Here are the stats to the extent I can reconstruct them.

Governments

Monarchy AD 300
Republic AD 1851
Democracy AD 1871


Wonders

SETI AD 1899
Apollo AD 1920

(I also gained control of the pyramids with the capture of Rome c 1500 AD)

SSC Stats
(No SSC, but stats for Memphis - my intended SSC site)

size 8 AD 1902
size 12 AD 1906
max. size 17 (AD 1911)

Techs

Trade gifted by Indians c 1000 AD
Invention gifted by Vikings c 1500 AD
Railroad AD 1855
Automobile AD 1888
Nuclear Power AD 1900
Computers AD 1898
Flight AD 1905
Space Flight AD 1912

AC arrival AD 1941

I was pathetic for much of the game and hence my key civ was the Romans to whom I had no intention of gifting any techs. After 1848 I was mighty and hence key civ the English (until eliminated by the Vikings). Tech gifting to them helped reduce research costs.

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